Israelis and Hamas Conflict/ Netanyahu Out as PM - Coalition Led by Bennett Take Over

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, taxi said:

Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. They were founded in 1928, before Israel came into being.

 

Hamas is also funded by external forces, notably Iran.

The Muslim brotherhood was founded as a religious and social movement.

It funded both hospital's and charitable  business's and schooled people who could not read or write.

 

Hamas was not founded until 1987 and it's origins may be tied to the Muslim brotherhood but it is a stretch to call it an offshoot.

 

Hamas is an terrorist organisation just like the Irgun was and now The Brit Hakanaim,The Kingdom of Israel Group,The Gush Enunim Underground,

Lehava,Sikrikim,Kach,Kahane Chai,and The revolt terror group,are all Israeli terrorist organisations.

 

[UKNuck96]

Some fact checking Here

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

51 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

I know, I’m all about context. This isn’t a simple issue, nor one a 5 second google can give you the answers for. 
 

we studied this as part of my degree and even I am only scratching the surface, and I try and keep up with affairs.

 

 

This piece of strategically placed land has been fought over for thousands of years.

 

There are several other places on this planet like this, Afghanistan,Vietnam,crossroads of cultures.

 

I honestly believe that the religious significance of Sites in Israel particularly Jerusalem adds to continuous violence and suffering endured by the people living there.

[Ilunga]

9 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

Some fact checking Here

 

 

 

Thanks Brother 

 

Love facts.

They make critical thinking easy.

[UKNuck96]

This is from just one side but it has sources with each statement so you can look through and make a critical decision on how valid some of these are

 

Here

[Sbriggs]

9 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

Some fact checking Here

 

 

 

Not surprised

[CBH1926]

Topics about Middle East wars always turn into religious debate.

 

[taxi]

10 hours ago, Ilunga said:

The Muslim brotherhood was founded as a religious and social movement.

It funded both hospital's and charitable  business's and schooled people who could not read or write.

 

Hamas was not founded until 1987 and it's origins may be tied to the Muslim brotherhood but it is a stretch to call it an offshoot.

 

Hamas is an terrorist organisation just like the Irgun was and now The Brit Hakanaim,The Kingdom of Israel Group,The Gush Enunim Underground,

Lehava,Sikrikim,Kach,Kahane Chai,and The revolt terror group,are all Israeli terrorist organisations.

 

Hamas also funds hospitals, schools, and charity. That's for they get most of their support. It's not strictly by promising an endless war with Israel.

 

The Muslim brotherhood also had political and military wings like Hamas. They are considered a terrorist organization by many nations. Most nations just consider Hamas' military wings a terrorist group. The UN general assembly rejected calls to have Hamas labeled a terrorist organization, generally. 

 

During the first intifada, many of the Palestinian groups reacted militarily, including the Palestinians branch of the MB. This is when Hamas became what it is, but it is 100% rooted in the MB.

 

[Gnarcore]

 

 

 

 

 

[Red Light Racicot]

On 5/13/2021 at 7:05 PM, drummer4now said:

If you studied the conflict longterm you would know religion has very little do with it. 

Nowadays It is all about land and power/control. 

 

The establishment of a Jewish state vs Palestinian state.

 

The Israeli government is ultra nationalist and wants only a Jewish state just like Hamas are ultra nationalist and want a Palestinian state. 

 

Sure one could argue there was a time when religion played a great role in this conflict(crusades, Arab nationalism, etc..) but Arabs and Israelis have lived side by side for centuries and more so after the creation of modern Israel. 

 

It is rather unfortunate this conflict has dragged on for so long.. 

I agree there are factors that have nothing to do with religion fueling this conflict,, however  I cant overlook the fact that the US backs Israel for reasons that are definitely religious.

 

A significant number of American Christians literally believe that if the conflict escalates and Israel is victorious, it will cause Armageddon, and this is somehow a desired outcome.

 

Don't ask me why these particular Christians are the ultimate nihilists because it makes no sense to me either.

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Red Light Racicot

[taxi]

3 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

I agree there are factors that have nothing to do with religion fueling this conflict,, however  I cant overlook the fact that the US backs Israel for reasons that are definitely religious.

 

A significant number of American Christians literally believe that if the conflict escalates and Israel is victorious, it will cause Armageddon, and this is somehow a desired outcome.

 

Don't ask me why these particular Christians are the ultimate nihilists because it makes no sense to me either.

 

They believe that all the Jews is the world need to gather in Israel. Then there will be Armageddon. Then the second coming of Jesus will occur, and he will rule the world from Jerusalem in a new era of peace. I wouldn't call it nihilism, but there's some very high level politicians making decisions based on these beliefs. 

 

But yes, they are by far the greatest supporters of Israel in America. There may be as many as 100 million in the USA.

[Ilunga]

14 hours ago, taxi said:

Hamas also funds hospitals, schools, and charity. That's for they get most of their support. It's not strictly by promising an endless war with Israel.

 

The Muslim brotherhood also had political and military wings like Hamas. They are considered a terrorist organization by many nations. Most nations just consider Hamas' military wings a terrorist group. The UN general assembly rejected calls to have Hamas labeled a terrorist organization, generally. 

 

During the first intifada, many of the Palestinian groups reacted militarily, including the Palestinians branch of the MB. This is when Hamas became what it is, but it is 100% rooted in the MB.

 

In your original post you were suggesting that Hamas could be traced back to a time-1928- before the state of Israel existed.

 

 

Promising an endless war with Israel ?

You make it sound like it is all the Palestinians fault that the Israelis keep stealing their homes and land,killing their people and forcing them to live in conditions that the International Red Cross calls a humanitarian crisis.

You have not addressed the fact that the state of Israel was built on acts of terror and continues to have active terrorist groups acting inside and outside of its borders.

 

But hey it's all those uppity Palestinians fault !

[Ilunga]

8 hours ago, Red Light Racicot said:

I agree there are factors that have nothing to do with religion fueling this conflict,, however  I cant overlook the fact that the US backs Israel for reasons that are definitely religious.

 

A significant number of American Christians literally believe that if the conflict escalates and Israel is victorious, it will cause Armageddon, and this is somehow a desired outcome.

 

Don't ask me why these particular Christians are the ultimate nihilists because it makes no sense to me either.

 

The Israeli lobby is powerful in most western countries.

It is a mixture of both religious belief and money.

Our government here in Aus states much the same as the US.

We have a fruitcake evangelical PM.

I was just reading that in the last 20 years Canada has voted against 166 UN resolutions supporting Palestinian rights which seems to have cost you a seat on the UN security council.

And at the best other western governments mouth platitudes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill Sikes]

Sadly I don't see this ending until the leaders on both sides learn to love their own children more than they hate the people on the other side

[bigbadcanucks]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:00 PM, drummer4now said:

Just because you are anti-religious doesn't mean religion is bad or relevant to this topic.

 

Go take your Big Bang theory views elsewhere lol.

 

The nerve of some people to believe masonic science . 

 

Everything happened because of a Big Bang oh boy 

 

/End rant 

Sorry Drummer...I'm not following your rant.  Or was it intended to be that way?

 

One thing for sure...the loss of innocent lives is heartbreaking.  Especially children caught in something whose only "fault" (weak choice of words) was being born into the conflict.  Blood is on the hands of the extremists on BOTH sides. 

[Gnarcore]

8 hours ago, Ilunga said:

The Israeli lobby is powerful in most western countries.

It is a mixture of both religious belief and money.

Our government here in Aus states much the same as the US.

We have a fruitcake evangelical PM.

I was just reading that in the last 20 years Canada has voted against 166 UN resolutions supporting Palestinian rights which seems to have cost you a seat on the UN security council.

And at the best other western governments mouth platitudes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Cons were/are full on Israel lovers and in charge for much of that. Also the Jewish population of Ontario is a decent voting block.

[taxi]

12 hours ago, Ilunga said:

In your original post you were suggesting that Hamas could be traced back to a time-1928- before the state of Israel existed.

 

 

Promising an endless war with Israel ?

You make it sound like it is all the Palestinians fault that the Israelis keep stealing their homes and land,killing their people and forcing them to live in conditions that the International Red Cross calls a humanitarian crisis.

You have not addressed the fact that the state of Israel was built on acts of terror and continues to have active terrorist groups acting inside and outside of its borders.

 

But hey it's all those uppity Palestinians fault !

I've never said it's entirely anyone's fault. Hamas, however, has made it quite clear they intend to destroy the state of Israel.

[DonLever]

3 hours ago, Gnarcore said:

The Cons were/are full on Israel lovers and in charge for much of that. Also the Jewish population of Ontario is a decent voting block.

Well, the Liberals are not that much different when it comes to support for Israel.  They are pretty pro Israel as well; perhaps not to the degree as the Tories but they know where the votes are too.

 

The NDP are more pro Palestinian but they too have division within their party; when NDP members speak out against Israel they are reined in by Mr. Singh.

 

The problem is political parties do a balancing act when it comes to criticizing Israel or be called Anti-Semitic.

 

And just look at the US, the Democrats and Republicans fall over themselves in supporting Israel.  There is virtually no difference between those two parties when it comes to Israel.  When Israel say jump, the Dems and Reps say how high.   Biden says the same thing all presidents in the last seven decades have said:  Israel has the right to defend themselves.  That cliche seems out of step with todays climate of social justice.  After all, how can you sell billions of dollars of armament to another country to kill mainly civilians.  Its seems rather incongruous.

[UnkNuk]

Bernie Sanders opines on the Israel/Palestinian conflict:

 

Bernie Sanders: The U.S. Must Stop Being an Apologist for the Netanyahu Government

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/opinion/bernie-sanders-israel-palestine-gaza.html?campaign_id=39&emc=edit_ty_20210517&instance_id=30982&nl=opinion-today&regi_id=56405277&segment_id=58270&te=1&user_id=dc88543b79693b0f05322365a827e237

[UnkNuk]

I don't know who's right or wrong in this conflict.  But I think it's worthwhile to hear different points of view.  Here's one Palestinian point of view from a show on RT America.

 

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On the show this week, Chris Hedges discusses the disputes between the Palestinians and Israelis with Palestinian political activist, Dr. Sami Al-Arian.