Ilunga Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 7 hours ago, taxi said: I've never said it's entirely anyone's fault. Hamas, however, has made it quite clear they intend to destroy the state of Israel. While Israel has never publicly stated they want to destroy the Palestinian people,it is quite clear they have been trying to and will continue to do so. If fault is to apportioned the burden must clearly fall on the Israelis for continuing steal to the land and homes of the Palestinians,force them to live in conditions that are inhumane and kill them. People talk about the things that are at the heart of this conflict,to me it is quite clear. Neither side realises the fact that we are all human beings,brothers and sisters,and that we all share this planet. Nobody owns Jack $#@& when it comes down to it. To quote Eric Idle " You come from nothing You're going back to nothing What have you lost ? Nothing ". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsAllOursBoys Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 On 5/15/2021 at 3:23 PM, UKNuck96 said: With all due respect To say that they worship the same God is not the same as insisting that they have an agreed and shared understanding of God, same with Christianity. the God is the same how they perceive and view that god is fundamentally different, it doesn’t change the fact that they believe that Abraham’s god is their god. Unless you are saying that Abraham worshiped multiple gods? Most view that the god is the same, even the Pope has said as much, yea their will be fringe groups/fundamentalists that deny it across all three, but sharing the same god (the god of Abraham) still means there can be significant differences in interpretation as to what that god is about. //With all due respect To say that they worship the same God is not the same as insisting that they have an agreed and shared understanding of God, same with Christianity.// If one is to suggest that they worship the same God, objective, verifiable proof must be presented to support such a claim. Their word alone or their personal subjective beliefs can't legitimize the claim. The Jew or Arab's sincerity of belief isn't being called into question but sincerity isn't the standard by which we judge fact from fiction. Both Rabbinic Jews and Arabs can sincerely believe they're of the same faith of Abraham, but proving it can be challenging without bringing history and dogma to bear. I sincerely believe my mother is the Queen of England and that we share the same historical faith, but that doesn't make is so. Objective, verifiable evidence is needed to lay claim to such a lineage. Likewise, both Jews and Arabs must present evidence (historical & dogma) to support their claim as not only to Abraham's lineage, but his faith as well. //the God is the same how they perceive and view that god is fundamentally different, it doesn’t change the fact that they believe that Abraham’s god is their god.// Belief and reality aren't always congruent. //Unless you are saying that Abraham worshiped multiple gods?// No, history records that Abraham's forefathers as being polytheists, but Abraham himself was monotheistic //Most view that the god is the same, even the Pope has said as much// "Most"? Only the ecumenicists make the claim that their god is the same. As for the Pope, besides the ecumenicists in the Jewish/Arab/Romanish camps, no one agrees with him. //yea their will be fringe groups/fundamentalists that deny it across all three, but sharing the same god (the god of Abraham) still means there can be significant differences in interpretation as to what that god is about.// The number of who disagree aren't fringe. There are far greater numbers who don't ascribe to ecumenical revisionist history. Yes, there is significant differences in interpretation of what the god is about, but such irreconcilable differences are due to the fact that they're worshiping their own image of true deity, not true deity Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 What denomination do you ascribe to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 20 hours ago, taxi said: I've never said it's entirely anyone's fault. Hamas, however, has made it quite clear they intend to destroy the state of Israel. "Hamas has made it quite clear they intend to destroy the state of Israel". True. Benjamin Netanyahu has also made it VERY clear that he intends on destroying Hamas terrorists at ALL costs (= loss of innocent Palestinian/Israeli lives). This is the consequence of being at extreme opposites. No one's actions are right. There is plenty of blame to go around. I have Jewish friends and I have Arab friends, so I get to hear both sides. Most of my friends on both sides are moderates and bristle at the violence against each other, and sometimes among each other. One thing I know is this...if someone killed one of my family members, I would care less about their political/social/religious views. I would want justice. To me, this is what the conflict has evolved into over the past several decades. The loss of innocent Palestinians and Israelis lives because of reckless actions of extremist leaders on both sides is what really makes me sad and angry. As I said in my previous post, the blood of innocent lives lost are on the hands of the leaders on both sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, UKNuck96 said: What denomination do you ascribe to? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 hours ago, UKNuck96 said: What denomination do you ascribe to? Humanist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: Humanist. It is funny there used be another poster from Australia named "Buddhas Hand" and he would say almost exactly the same things as you. Literally as If they're the same people. Quick question but how did you discover the Canucks? or Canucks.com? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, drummer4now said: It is funny there used be another poster from Australia named "Buddhas Hand" and he would say almost exactly the same things as you. Literally as If they're the same people. Quick question but how did you discover the Canucks? or Canucks.com? My first username was "puckinloveicehockey",changed it to "The Ratiocinator" then changed it to "Buddha's Hand". Then I had to shut down my email address that was linked to that account that due to a family law matter. For the last 3 half years I have been involved in the fight of my life to see my beautiful son. At one stage when he was 4-5 I did not see him for 9 months and then for the next 7 months I had to pay 220 dollars to see him in a supervised way for 2 hours a week. In that period I have accumulated enough evidence to prove my ex lied and she was the one actually hurting our son. One if the incidences of this was a complaint made against her to child protection where she was filming him self harm while denigrating me in the background. I spent 20 years of my life as what I describe as a "ski-bum". Like everything I do I put 100 percent into it and became one of this countries best big mountain skiers. The people who used to own my home mountain Mt.Hotham own big white and I spent about half a dozen seasons based there and that's where I discovered the greatest team sport in the world,ice hockey. Saw a lot of Kelowna Rockets games,played a lot of drop in hockey and when I stayed at whistler a buddy took me to a couple of Canucks games. Just looked up the Canucks website back in 2010-11 ,saw the forums section and joined. There was a lot of posters I admired back then. There was even an offshoot forum made by a couple if members,whatthenuck. Edited May 19, 2021 by Ilunga 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ilunga said: My first username was "puckinloveicehockey",changed it to "The Ratiocinator" then changed it to "Buddha's Hand". Then I had to shut down my email address that was linked to that account that due to a family law matter. For the last 3 half years I have been involved in the fight of my life to see my beautiful son. At one stage when he was 4-5 I did not see him for 9 months and then for the next 7 months I had to pay 220 dollars to see him in a supervised way for 2 hours a week. In that period I have accumulated enough evidence to prove my ex lied and she was the one actually hurting our son. One if the incidences of this was a complaint made against her to child protection where she was filming him self harm while denigrating me in the background. I spent 20 years of my life as what I describe as a "ski-bum". Like everything I do I put 100 percent into it and became one of this countries best big mountain skiers. The people who used to own my home mountain Mt.Hotham own big white and I spent about half a dozen seasons based there and that's where I discovered the greatest team sport in the world,ice hockey. Saw a lot of Kelowna Rockets games,played a lot of drop in hockey and when I stayed at whistler a buddy took me to a couple of Canucks games. Just looked up the Canucks website back in 2010-11 ,saw the forums section and joined. There was a lot of posters I admired back then. There was even an offshoot forum made by a couple if members,whatthenuck. I knew it was you lol.. I still have some chat history from like 7 years ago. I remember we go into a religious debating match and then made up later. Nice to see you again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted May 21, 2021 Author Share Posted May 21, 2021 From CBS: Israel’s government and Hamas agreed to a bilateral cease-fire on Thursday to halt nearly two weeks of fighting that has left hundreds dead and parts of the impoverished Gaza Strip reduced to rubble. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's security cabinet agreed "to accept the Egyptian initiative for a bilateral cease-fire, which will take effect at a later date," the government said in a statement. The truce comes after international diplomatic efforts and growing pressure from Israel's closest ally, the United States, to bring an end to the most intense conflict between Israel and Hamas since the 2014 war in Gaza. Senior Hamas leader Osama Hamdan told Lebanon's Al-Mayadeen TV channel that the cease-fire would begin Friday at 2 a.m. local time (7 p.m. ET). "We obtained guarantees from the mediators that the aggression on Gaza will stop," he said. The Egyptian government confirmed the time of the "mutual and simultaneous" cease-fire in a statement. In remarks from the White House less than 2 hours before the cease-fire was set to take effect, President Biden said he had been in close contact with Netanyahu and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi in the hours leading up to the deal. "The United States fully supports Israel's right to defend itself against indiscriminate rocket attacks from Hamas and other Gaza-based terror groups that have taken the lives of innocent civilians in Israel," Biden said. The president added that he sees a "genuine opportunity" to move toward a situation where Israelis and Palestinians can "live safely and securely, and enjoy equal measures of freedom, prosperity and democracy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 hours ago, DonLever said: From CBS: Israel’s government and Hamas agreed to a bilateral cease-fire on Thursday to halt nearly two weeks of fighting that has left hundreds dead and parts of the impoverished Gaza Strip reduced to rubble. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's security cabinet agreed "to accept the Egyptian initiative for a bilateral cease-fire, which will take effect at a later date," the government said in a statement. The truce comes after international diplomatic efforts and growing pressure from Israel's closest ally, the United States, to bring an end to the most intense conflict between Israel and Hamas since the 2014 war in Gaza. Senior Hamas leader Osama Hamdan told Lebanon's Al-Mayadeen TV channel that the cease-fire would begin Friday at 2 a.m. local time (7 p.m. ET). "We obtained guarantees from the mediators that the aggression on Gaza will stop," he said. The Egyptian government confirmed the time of the "mutual and simultaneous" cease-fire in a statement. In remarks from the White House less than 2 hours before the cease-fire was set to take effect, President Biden said he had been in close contact with Netanyahu and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi in the hours leading up to the deal. "The United States fully supports Israel's right to defend itself against indiscriminate rocket attacks from Hamas and other Gaza-based terror groups that have taken the lives of innocent civilians in Israel," Biden said. The president added that he sees a "genuine opportunity" to move toward a situation where Israelis and Palestinians can "live safely and securely, and enjoy equal measures of freedom, prosperity and democracy." I was just listening to a Aussie journalist who has been following this conflict for decades. He has been to Israel,the west bank,the Gaza strip amongst other places in Palestine and Israel. Amongst the things he stated one stuck out to me,in the the Gaza strip he has never seen children so underdeveloped/smaller for their age anywhere else in the world. He calls it the grimmest place he has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 On 5/18/2021 at 9:59 AM, UKNuck96 said: What denomination do you ascribe to? I suppose whoever is running the simulation. Probably it's us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Hopefully both sides get back to negotiations and ceasefire stands. Years of negotiations is better than 1 day of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, CBH1926 said: Hopefully both sides get back to negotiations and ceasefire stands. Years of negotiations is better than 1 day of war. A few years of peace and then Israeli settlers will steal land and homes from the Palestinians then another escalation of conflict. Rinse repeat. No matter whose side you think is at fault the conditions the Palestinians have to live in are inhumane,the people who pay the price are women and children mostly. History will condemn both those who enabled this by their actions and inaction/silence Edited May 21, 2021 by Ilunga 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ilunga said: A few years of peace and then Israeli settlers will steal land and homes from the Palestinians then another escalation of conflict. Rinse repeat. No matter whose side you think is at fault the conditions the Palestinians have to live in are inhumane,the people who pay the price are women and children mostly. History will condemn both those who enabled this by their actions and inaction/silence When the US made the statement urging Israel to “wind down” the offensive in Gaza it told you everything you need to know. Tacit approval to do exactly what you pointed out. The world wouldn’t stand for apartheid but it’s no different to how the Palestinians are forced to live. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 8 hours ago, 4petesake said: When the US made the statement urging Israel to “wind down” the offensive in Gaza it told you everything you need to know. Tacit approval to do exactly what you pointed out. The world wouldn’t stand for apartheid but it’s no different to how the Palestinians are forced to live. Funny you should mention that, (but not "ha ha" funny) I was watching a field reporter on one of the news channels, who was on the scene and had been reporting from that part of the world for quite some time.... "Apartheid" is exactly how he described it. I think the problem that Biden (and every other POTUS) has is that there is a large Jewish population in the US and they, of course, support Israel. (for the most part) It follows that politicians in the West (Canada is not immune, as Montreal has a very large Jewish population as well) would see it as politically expedient to support Israel. Things won't change on that front, until public opinion is such that they see such support as politically damaging... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: Funny you should mention that, (but not "ha ha" funny) I was watching a field reporter on one of the news channels, who was on the scene and had been reporting from that part of the world for quite some time.... "Apartheid" is exactly how he described it. I think the problem that Biden (and every other POTUS) has is that there is a large Jewish population in the US and they, of course, support Israel. (for the most part) It follows that politicians in the West (Canada is not immune, as Montreal has a very large Jewish population as well) would see it as politically expedient to support Israel. Things won't change on that front, until public opinion is such that they see such support as politically damaging... So do sections of Ontario that comprise very population % of a few ridings. I have friends there. I may have responded to their pro Israel posts sharing Zionist BS with clips of Chomskey and The Gatekeepers (a doc on Israel secret forces - a must see). They didn't like that. Was called an anti semite. They had no response when I stated what I shared was commentary from Jewish people. I used to date one of these person's sister. Being anti Zionist/Israel policy does not make one anti Jewish.... Edited May 21, 2021 by Gnarcore 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) Somehow quoted myself instead of editing..lol Edited May 21, 2021 by Gnarcore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 19 hours ago, Ilunga said: A few years of peace and then Israeli settlers will steal land and homes from the Palestinians then another escalation of conflict. Rinse repeat. No matter whose side you think is at fault the conditions the Palestinians have to live in are inhumane, the people who pay the price are women and children mostly. History will condemn both those who enabled this by their actions and inaction/silence All these poor people are pawns of global politics, their neighbors and strategic positioning. Its all about the land and power, rubes believe it’s some sort of religious conflict between Jews and Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 22, 2021 Share Posted May 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: All these poor people are pawns of global politics, their neighbors and strategic positioning. Its all about the land and power, rubes believe it’s some sort of religious conflict between Jews and Muslims. According to Don Waxman of the University of California in 1966 no Israeli's lived in the west bank it was home to roughly 1 million Palestinians. Then in 1968 Rabbi Moshe Levinger with a small group of believers of a messianic version of Zionism moved into Hebron. This place is "holy" to them because they believe figures such as Abraham,Jacob, Rebecca and Isaac are buried there. As of 2018 there are now 450,000 Israelis living there. At its core this conflict is about religiously held beliefs and people wanting to have as you say power and possession of these places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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