Change is on the horizon...

[Fred65]

10 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

Who knows what is going on, he’s not hired yet or anything. Maybe he is reaching out for help in choosing someone. Courtnall helped with the Gillis hiring and I’m assuming he had had a good push for Linden getting hired as well.

You know what I have no record of Courtnalls business record within hockey. I read this and frankly can't question the validity

"It’s unclear what Courtnall’s role would be – he doesn’t have the hockey management skills to be a general manager 

[RU SERIOUS]

6 hours ago, tas said:

this is the least cogent argument I've seen in my 15+ years on these forums. 

...........you shouda seen my arguments 16 years ago.   Those were the days.....................

 

[Westcoasting]

1 minute ago, Fred65 said:

You know what I have no record of Courtnalls business record within hockey. I read this and frankly can't question the validity

"It’s unclear what Courtnall’s role would be – he doesn’t have the hockey management skills to be a general manager 

He doesn’t have no business record and I doubt he is going to have a role of major importance.

[Fred65]

3 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

He doesn’t have no business record and I doubt he is going to have a role of major importance.

You know that depends on the ears that are tuned in to his views. Can FA interpret the knowledge from the opinion, I truly truly question that .... IMO. It's why we're in the current mess

[JohnTavares]

16 hours ago, stawns said:

Gillis did nothing but add a couple of players to Nonis' core and handcuffed the next GM with NTC's and no prospects. We absolutely do not need a Gillis type GM

This is the most ignorant and incorrect thing said in this entire thread.

 

Please stop.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, JohnTavares said:

This is the most ignorant and incorrect thing said in this entire thread.

 

Please stop.

How is he wrong?  Gillis singlehandedly destroyed the franchise with a series of bad trades and terrible drafting.  We're still dealing with the consequences of his incompetence with the Luongo recapture. 

[JohnTavares]

6 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

How is he wrong?  Gillis singlehandedly destroyed the franchise with a series of bad trades and terrible drafting.  We're still dealing with the consequences of his incompetence with the Luongo recapture. 

I honestly feel bad for you if that's how your perspective of the situation is.

With 30k likes and heavy activity on this forum, one would think that you would understand the situation better.  I'm not even going to get into the details, but if the Canucks won the cup in 2011, you would have be riding Gillis like the Kentucky Derby.

 

Singlehandedly destroyed the franchise? You mean 2 presidents trophies, 60 minutes away from the Stanley Cup (twice), and the most successful era of the Canucks hockey is destroying a franchise? You might want to step back and take a look and what you're saying.

[Bertuzzipunch]

Gillis definitely didnt destroy the franchise lmfao 

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, JohnTavares said:

I honestly feel bad for you if that's how your perspective of the situation is.

With 30k likes and heavy activity on this forum, one would think that you would understand the situation better.  I'm not even going to get into the details, but if the Canucks won the cup in 2011, you would have be riding Gillis like the Kentucky Derby.

 

Singlehandedly destroyed the franchise? You mean 2 presidents trophies, 60 minutes away from the Stanley Cup (twice), and the most successful era of the Canucks hockey is destroying a franchise? You might want to step back and take a look and what you're saying.

Luongo recapture, inability to draft NHLers due to wasting picks on bad rentals and terrible drafting.  I wouldn't hire that clown to manage a KFC because he'd give away the secret recipe for a box of napkins.  He took what Nonis and Burke built and ran the franchise into the ground.

Edited May 16, 2021 by King Heffy

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

How is he wrong?  Gillis singlehandedly destroyed the franchise with a series of bad trades and terrible drafting.  We're still dealing with the consequences of his incompetence with the Luongo recapture. 

From a valuation POV the franchise more than doubled in value during the Gillis era, didn’t it?  Lots of sell-outs.  The team was hot for fans from all over.  I think we are right now where we were when Gillis took over.  Right on the cusp of breaking out for a long run of winning.  

[JohnTavares]

6 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Luongo recapture, inability to draft NHLers due to wasting picks on bad rentals and terrible drafting.  I wouldn't hire that clown to manage a KFC because he'd give away the secret recipe for a box of napkins.  He took what Nonis and Burke built and ran the franchise into the ground.

Yikes. You spent all your time on a message board and still have no clue what things are.

 

That's sad.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, JohnTavares said:

Yikes. You spent all your time on a message board and still have no clue what things are.

 

That's sad.

Which of those comments were incorrect?  Gillis' mismanagement is what happens when you don't hire qualified hockey people to manage your team. 

[Locke Lamora]

I was very pleased to see that a majority polled on this forum preferred to see Travis Green come back (or at least thats how it looked last time I saw the poll). The FIRE GREEN folk are so loud one would think they represent the vast majority of opinion out there.

[kanucks25]

Lol

 

The desperation, reaches, hyperbole, slander is getting worse and worse everyday as the apologists see the writing on the wall.

 

You have to love it.

[86Viking]

9 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Who knows what is going on, he’s not hired yet or anything. Maybe he is reaching out for help in choosing someone. Courtnall helped with the Gillis hiring and I’m assuming he had had a good push for Linden getting hired as well.

No push was needed to bring Iconic Canuck Legend Linden into the fold, the issue was not listening to him, just like Buffalo did years ago with LaFontaine and they have been a tire fire ever since. Canucks are 10 years from be relevant to the opposition with no end in sight in the near future without some decent sized changes throughout the organization

[Timråfan]

On 5/15/2021 at 7:19 PM, tas said:

european players of all types need to learn how to play the north american game on north american ice if they want to have any chance of success in the nhl. 

You can read this piece about Utica. You might change opinion afterwards.

 

https://cometsharvest.com/2021/05/14/comets-harvest-the-final-friday/

[kloubek]

21 hours ago, Locke Lamora said:

I was very pleased to see that a majority polled on this forum preferred to see Travis Green come back (or at least thats how it looked last time I saw the poll). The FIRE GREEN folk are so loud one would think they represent the vast majority of opinion out there.

I like Green. The players play hard for him and he seems to care about the franchise and the players. 

 

...but is he the coach to bring us the cup? This team plays with little defensive structure, with constant giveaways... and while I'm inclined to blame the assistants, as head coach he is ultimately responsible for that. If he hasn't figured it out by now, hard to believe he ever will. 

 

Either that, or it's the players themselves who can't find a way to play d. Losing Tanev certainly didn't help, but we were broken with him here too. I just gotta think that even without him, we should be much better and not leave our goalies needing nightly Vezina performances to win games.

[VegasCanuck]

21 hours ago, Alflives said:

From a valuation POV the franchise more than doubled in value during the Gillis era, didn’t it?  Lots of sell-outs.  The team was hot for fans from all over.  I think we are right now where we were when Gillis took over.  Right on the cusp of breaking out for a long run of winning.  

In fairness, ALL NHL Franchises doubled in value during those years. It had more to do with the fact that the Salary Cap was having the effect the owners were looking for, in balancing the finances of the NHL teams and preventing certain teams from just running amok with handing out stupid contracts.

 

It also had a lot to do with a generally stronger Canadian Dollar.

 

Gillis added some good support people to help get the Canucks to the final, but the core that the 2011 team was built around, were pieces who were brought in by other GM's. The Sedins were here because of trades Burke made that allowed him to draft based around a future core. He added Kesler in 2003, who pretty much single handedly carried us past Nashville in 2011. Added Bieksa in the 5th round of 2005, Dave Nonis drafted Schnieder in 2004 (granted, didn't have a big impact on us in 2011, but became a solid piece), also added Edler in 2004 in the 3rd round. Nonis also signed Burrows in 2005, and robbed the Panthers in the Luongo trade in 2006. These were all bigger parts of the 2011 cup run than anyone that Gillis added.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

In fairness, ALL NHL Franchises doubled in value during those years. It had more to do with the fact that the Salary Cap was having the effect the owners were looking for, in balancing the finances of the NHL teams and preventing certain teams from just running amok with handing out stupid contracts.

 

It also had a lot to do with a generally stronger Canadian Dollar.

 

Gillis added some good support people to help get the Canucks to the final, but the core that the 2011 team was built around, were pieces who were brought in by other GM's. The Sedins were here because of trades Burke made that allowed him to draft based around a future core. He added Kesler in 2003, who pretty much single handedly carried us past Nashville in 2011. Added Bieksa in the 5th round of 2005, Dave Nonis drafted Schnieder in 2004 (granted, didn't have a big impact on us in 2011, but became a solid piece), also added Edler in 2004 in the 3rd round. Nonis also signed Burrows in 2005, and robbed the Panthers in the Luongo trade in 2006. These were all bigger parts of the 2011 cup run than anyone that Gillis added.

 

Only expansion teams dont benefit or suffer from the previous GM's moves. 

 

Gillis early moves were exactly what the team needed to surround the core. He deserves credit for that too. The team was upper echelon and made it to the SCF. The support pieces had a lot to do with that too.

 

Later a lot of his moves were questionable for sure but there was still some logic to them.

[VegasCanuck]

25 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Only expansion teams dont benefit or suffer from the previous GM's moves. 

 

Gillis early moves were exactly what the team needed to surround the core. He deserves credit for that too. The team was upper echelon and made it to the SCF. The support pieces had a lot to do with that too.

 

Later a lot of his moves were questionable for sure but there was still some logic to them.

He deserves credit for adding depth pieces, but that is also something that any GM would look to do around a core that looks like it can make a run at the cup.

 

Core numbers don't lie though either.

 

There were 9381 minutes of hockey played by the Canucks in that playoff run. 6182, almost 66% were played by 10 players on a 21 man, on ice team. You cannot discount or dispute that the players who carried this team to the cup, were not brought to Vancouver or assembled, either through the draft or trades, by someone other than Gillis.

 

The Sedins were drafted in 1999, Kesler in 2004. The core of the team that went to the final was assembled largely between those years for a cup run that happened in 2011. Anyone else doing the math on the development cycle of kids to become a Stanley cup contender if you're trying to build through the draft, which is exactly what the Canucks are trying to do?

 

Anyone else want to look around the NHL at teams that were largely built through the draft to become contenders, and how long it took before they were really ready for the support players to be added for a cup push?