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5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yup.  People who think Benning is getting fired are delusional.  Aquilini is a businessman.  He's not going to pay for 2 GM's for the next 2 years just to make some posters on CDC happy.

Haven't the Canucks fired several managers/coaches while they still had time left on their contracts?

 

A good businessman understands when to cut his losses - the concept of a "sunk cost".

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7 hours ago, NaveJoseph said:

Don't see us firing Benning. His drafting has been exceptional. He said all along that he'd pay extra money for leadership. Now that most of our young guys have a few years under their belts, I think he will be more shrewd and prudent with our cap space.

That's a dumb comment to make on his parf. He's just using "leadership" to justify bringing in garbage players, while kicking aside guys (Tanev, Hamhuis, Richardson, etc.) who were either way more qualified for that role and were actually good at hockey.

 

In the past two years he's significantly overpaid for Myers, Holtby and Pearson. He won't use his cap space more wisely because he's an awful negotiator with awful pro-scouting, and agents can use his many awful contracts as reference points and work from there.

 

That comment from Benning about Pearson's agent told him he'd get that kind of contract in free agency was completely embarrassing. 

 

Edited by Josepho
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33 minutes ago, Josepho said:

He's just using "leadership" to justify bringing in garbage players

so what's your angle here? do you genuinely believe that benning is actively trying to make the team worse? trying to take it down from the inside?

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Just now, tas said:

so what's your angle here? do you genuinely believe that benning is actively trying to make the team worse? trying to take it down from the inside?

He's both a poor talent evaluator and poor negotiator. I mean, he thought Sutter at over 4mil was better value than Bonino at 1.9mil.

 

"Leadership" is a justification for bringing in players who are (usually) statistically terrible with no actual redeeming on-ice qualities.

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4 minutes ago, Josepho said:

He's both a poor talent evaluator and poor negotiator. I mean, he thought Sutter at over 4mil was better value than Bonino at 1.9mil.

 

"Leadership" is a justification for bringing in players who are (usually) statistically terrible with no actual redeeming on-ice qualities.

poor talent evaluators don't hit draft after draft out of the park, and negotiating the money is chris gear's job. 

 

I won't validate your asinine second paragraph with a response. 

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16 minutes ago, tas said:

poor talent evaluators don't hit draft after draft out of the park, and negotiating the money is chris gear's job. 

 

I won't validate your asinine second paragraph with a response. 

Benning doesn't hit draft after draft out of the park too. Virtanen and Juolevi certainly weren't the right picks, and as of right now I don't think Podkolzin was the best player available at 10th. Chris Gear has been employed as AGM for about a year and a half. We have a ton of Benning's body of work prior to that. Additionally, scouting is far more random. Predicting how an 18 year old will turn out is far more random than evaluating how a 27 year old NHL player currently is.

 

Also, we can look at Benning's evaluation(s) of his own players to get an idea of how he evaluates them, this is the same guy who

 

A ) Watched Sbisa suck here and managed to give him a significant raise.

B ) Watched Gudbranson suck here and managed to give him a significant raise.

C ) Brought Granlund back for 18-19 despite being trash for all of his prior seasons here.

 

Stuff like that doesn't exactly instill confidence in me.

 

Why won't you validate my second paragraph with a response? Can you explain why Sutter/Beagle/Roussel/Myers/etc. are good leaders, and not any of the guys we booted to the curb like Hamhuis/Richardson/Bonino/etc., or any of the cheaper UFA (or actual good) alternatives from those years?

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17 minutes ago, tas said:

poor talent evaluators don't hit draft after draft out of the park, and negotiating the money is chris gear's job. 

 

I won't validate your asinine second paragraph with a response. 

How many times do I have to say that drafting is more about the scouts. 

One example is Petey that Inge Hammarström pushed really hard for.

Without Inge no Petey.

Inge was also the reason why Dahlen came her because Benning called Inge and Inge said Dahlen is the best swedish young player, after Petey, so take him.

That didn't work out as planned but without Inge, no Dahlen.  B)

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1 minute ago, Timråfan said:

How many times do I have to say that drafting is more about the scouts. 

One example is Petey that Inge Hammarström pushed really hard for.

Without Inge no Petey.

Inge was also the reason why Dahlen came her because Benning called Inge and Inge said Dahlen is the best swedish young player, after Petey, so take him.

That didn't work out as planned but without Inge, no Dahlen.  B)

benning is the team's head scout. 

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12 hours ago, Sbriggs said:

The core of that team was handed to him, he may have added the right pieces to give us a run at the cup but any GM could have done that. I put Quinn and Burke as better GM's then Gillis. Without Burke's deal to bring the Sedins here theres no cup run for Gillis and what about Nonis bringing Luongo? Gee, I wonder why Gillis hasn't had a GM job in the NHL since?

Gillis isn't coming back.   Davidson is the by far the best possible candidate out their to come in and take the Presidents job and this team truly needs oversight and experience in that position to block any ownership issue's, and to approve of any trades made.  It would give a new perspective for where we are going and how to get there, and also put another body there that can fire any GM that's running the team.  Oversight.   If JB is going to spend the remainder of his contract running the team, we need a President that can prepare his agenda and make the right decision as whether it's time for change or, if by some miracle he pulls it off, and think he's going to need one or two at this point (like Podz being the best player yet, and at least one of our D's come in and become a solid top four D outside of OJ) ...

 

No matter what it's going to be another nail chewing off-season, and next season is going to be another one too.   After that i can't see this team not going places.   

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1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Gillis isn't coming back.   Davidson is the by far the best possible candidate out their to come in and take the Presidents job and this team truly needs oversight and experience in that position to block any ownership issue's, and to approve of any trades made.  It would give a new perspective for where we are going and how to get there, and also put another body there that can fire any GM that's running the team.  Oversight.   If JB is going to spend the remainder of his contract running the team, we need a President that can prepare his agenda and make the right decision as whether it's time for change or, if by some miracle he pulls it off, and think he's going to need one or two at this point (like Podz being the best player yet, and at least one of our D's come in and become a solid top four D outside of OJ) ...

 

No matter what it's going to be another nail chewing off-season, and next season is going to be another one too.   After that i can't see this team not going places.   

Benning doesnt work well with people. I cant see a President being on top of him now that Linden is gone. 

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In this click and react world the attention span doesn't always extend. Coming out of their playoffs last year Green and Benning were genius. A year later and fans want to cut them lose. I am hoping the Aquilini family doesn't pay attention. Developing an org and the players that will make a serious CUP run doesn't happen in 5 years let alone 10 years. Even in the best of efforts it might never result in a CUP. I look at 5 years ago and then today and I take a lot of satisfaction in what has been achieved. If nothing else Benning has been cautious as he drafted a core of young talent. He acquired vets to help the core's transition and that was the right thing to do. Some haven't worked out but that happens around the league.

 

It is time that tells the tale. As this group of Canucks inch towards serious CUP contention JB will have to make hard decisions about the core. It is highly likely he will trade one of the existing core to get a player that might be worth more in winning a CUP. That decision right or wrong will decide his legacy. Worrying about Virtanen, Ericksson, Rous or others doesn't mean a lot.   

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49 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

And makes the final decision based on all the other scouts reports. 

But again, without Inge, no Petey regardless of what Benning does. 

All GMs heavily influence and decide on the first rounder each year.   The second ones often too.   After that it's usually up to what the scouts have ready.   JB is for sure more involved then most given his background.  By just observing the drafts you can see him and sometimes the teams provided video...like he's said he approaches the draft like every pick can be developed and make the NHL, for sure his strongest suit.   And yes your correct, Inge called Delmore to come and check him out - he'd be watching EP and Dahlen for quite some time ... was a coup and lucky at the same time...otherwise we'd probably have Glass. 

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5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Gillis isn't coming back.   Davidson is the by far the best possible candidate out their to come in and take the Presidents job and this team truly needs oversight and experience in that position to block any ownership issue's, and to approve of any trades made.  It would give a new perspective for where we are going and how to get there, and also put another body there that can fire any GM that's running the team.  Oversight.   If JB is going to spend the remainder of his contract running the team, we need a President that can prepare his agenda and make the right decision as whether it's time for change or, if by some miracle he pulls it off, and think he's going to need one or two at this point (like Podz being the best player yet, and at least one of our D's come in and become a solid top four D outside of OJ) ...

 

No matter what it's going to be another nail chewing off-season, and next season is going to be another one too.   After that i can't see this team not going places.   

I like the idea of Davidson as Pres. Does he still own his place in the Okanagan? 

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17 hours ago, Alflives said:

wasn't gillis arguably our most successful GM ever?  He did do a great job filling out a roster to support a younger core group, and provided an environment for winning.  I just don't know is he will come back here after how it ended for him?  Maybe FA will ask?

He was but people often forget that a lot of his success can be attributed to the work that Burke and Nonis did (Ie Luongo, Sedin’s, Bieksa, Kesler, Salo, Raymond, Hansen, Burrows, Schneider, and Edler.  
 

That’a NOT to say that Gillis wasn’t instrumental however.   Gillis took our young burgeoning core, and complemented them with solid pieces such as Samuelson, Erhoff, Torres, Lapierre, Hamhuis.   We would also acquire Jacob Markstrom via trade later on.

 

However,

1) Gillis’ amateur scouting was terrible and I don’t think a single pick of his made the team during his tenure here for an extended period of time other than Hodgson.  Horvat.  That’s it.  And Horvat cost us Schneider.  What always baffles me is how many fans bash Benning’s pro scouting (valid criticism) and yet many of these same people put Gillis on some kind of pedastal when his amateur scouting was just as bad as Benning’s pro scouting.

2) Gillis’ moves after 2011 were........weird.   He handicapped the Canucks with crippling NTC contracts instead of selling high, although in his defense, this order may have come from ownership.  This, combined with his lackluster drafting, left Benning with a HUGE mess to clean.
3) The severe mishandling of the Luongo/Schneider situation.

4) Rubbing many other NHL executives and referees the wrong way which contributed to the Canucks being hated around the league.  This might be why Gillis hasn’t been a GM since 2013.

 

In conclusion, I think both Gillis and Benning are/were good GM’s but just not great.  Gillis’ amateur scouting flops + the aforementioned, while Benning’s pro scouting calculated gambles not panning out + the Virtanen and Juolevi screw up (Atleast trending that way), prevent them from being considered elite.

 

The only thing that baffles me is how Gillis is vastly overrated by many people in this market while Benning gets vastly underrated.....when in reality both guys are “B” level GM’s.

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8 hours ago, spur1 said:

I guess you fellas never heard of Covid... the trade was made before the salary cap flatlined. 

If he had any competence he would have figured out how to retain him. He was too distracted by OEL and just kinda ran outta time. 

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18 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I'm not sure, I was Dahlens mother and Louis wife or something like that also so I might have split personalities. 

it's almost like you have this weird, over the top swedish pride thing going on. in fact, it was your insistance that benning was a big meanie to dahlen and that dahlen should have been handed opportunities he did nothing to earn that makes me pretty much dismiss anything else you say out of hand.  

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35 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I like the idea of Davidson as Pres. Does he still own his place in the Okanagan? 

Probably...but don't know.   His fingerprints are all over St. Louis and his teams always seems good.   He's getting older, maybe wants to retire, but if he doesn't he brings a whack of experience to the table.    I wouldn't have minded Burke back either .... but if he came say goodbye to QHs and any "small bodies" lol.    He's been doing that his entire career going back to finding the legality Quin needed to draft Bure - and then advising Quin NOT to draft him because he was too small to succeed at the NHL level.   Go figure.   Like's his Ohlunds, Jovo's, Allen's etc 

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