Change is on the horizon...

[Timråfan]

13 minutes ago, tas said:

it's almost like you have this weird, over the top swedish pride thing going on. in fact, it was your insistance that benning was a big meanie to dahlen and that dahlen should have been handed opportunities he did nothing to earn that makes me pretty much dismiss anything else you say out of hand.  

The big meanie made sure Dahlen got a lot of hate. Not so very much GM like behaviour from Benning.

So that behaviour from Benning showed that he shouldn't be a GM. He is a middle boss man. Not suitable for top floor. 

[tas]

2 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

The big meanie made sure Dahlen got a lot of hate. Not so very much GM like behaviour from Benning.

So that behaviour from Benning showed that he shouldn't be a GM. He is a middle boss man. Not suitable for top floor. 

sigh.

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, tas said:

it's almost like you have this weird, over the top swedish pride thing going on. in fact, it was your insistance that benning was a big meanie to dahlen and that dahlen should have been handed opportunities he did nothing to earn that makes me pretty much dismiss anything else you say out of hand.  

Pretty sure this CDCer is from Sweden - and also follows Timra.    The defense of LE was also obvious for several years ... nothing wrong with that at all.   I'd go out on a limb and say Vancouver could ice one of the best all-time Swede teams compared to any other NHL club too.  

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

The big meanie made sure Dahlen got a lot of hate. Not so very much GM like behaviour from Benning.

So that behaviour from Benning showed that he shouldn't be a GM. He is a middle boss man. Not suitable for top floor. 

Strange angle.   I've watched Dahlen in the AHL, looked a little like Bure out there but he was no Bure either.   If Dahlen was ripping it up on a different NHL team right now then you could complain about the "big meannie".   The macro view is EP doesn't need a Gino/Bure distraction ... as in best buds playing on the same line and one way way way better then the other (Gino missed probably 10 open nets the year he played with Bure ... and Bure could have scored 15 more goals with someone else on his line!).   At the time i also was miffed.   Dahlen is a good hockey player - at the AHL level, that's about it, and he will never do what Gino did either.  

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Josepho said:

He's both a poor talent evaluator and poor negotiator. I mean, he thought Sutter at over 4mil was better value than Bonino at 1.9mil.

 

"Leadership" is a justification for bringing in players who are (usually) statistically terrible with no actual redeeming on-ice qualities.

That's a terrible take - whatever quote your making up.   Just terrible.   Leadership is a massive intangible.   Sutter had called out quite a few of the goof tweeners we've had over the years...overpaid yes, but not at the time, not many complained about it back then, Sutter does play like his name sake. Balls.   Hope he comes back too, and takes over Beagles spot.   The Sutter legacy is also in his genes.   

[Toyotasfan]

If the only change was a new assistant coach in charge of defensive players with a new defensive system I’d be ok with that. Not a big fan of Newell Brown either, replacing him would be a bonus. If Green could understand why those areas need to improve and work with new assistant coaches he could probably stay, but he doesn’t recognize  when to call a time out so he probably doesn’t recognize the coaching deficiencies with his assistants.

[nux_win]

Change is inevitable.  Growth is optional.

 

Go Canucks Go!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Patel Bure said:

 

The only thing that baffles me is how Gillis is vastly overrated by many people in this market while Benning gets vastly underrated.....when in reality both guys are “B” level GM’s.

Probably because one guy was fired (and justifiable so) while the other guy says he needs more time after seven seasons.

[Timråfan]

38 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Strange angle.   I've watched Dahlen in the AHL, looked a little like Bure out there but he was no Bure either.   If Dahlen was ripping it up on a different NHL team right now then you could complain about the "big meannie".   The macro view is EP doesn't need a Gino/Bure distraction ... as in best buds playing on the same line and one way way way better then the other (Gino missed probably 10 open nets the year he played with Bure ... and Bure could have scored 15 more goals with someone else on his line!).   At the time i also was miffed.   Dahlen is a good hockey player - at the AHL level, that's about it, and he will never do what Gino did either.  

And this isn't what my problem is 

My problem is with how Benning handled the situation, talking about something close to spoiled youth wich led to a lot of unnecesary hate against Dahlen.

If a GM does that deliberatedly you don't want him as a boss.

What follows is that Petey probably has bad feelings against Benning also and it's not good with issues leading to stress in muscles. 

You probably knows what that means. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Timråfan said:

And this isn't what my problem is 

My problem is with how Benning handled the situation, talking about something close to spoiled youth wich led to a lot of unnecesary hate against Dahlen.

If a GM does that deliberatedly you don't want him as a boss.

What follows is that Petey probably has bad feelings against Benning also and it's not good with issues leading to stress in muscles. 

You probably knows what that means. 

How long have you followed hockey?  No, this isn’t a thinly veiled insult.  I ask because I wanted your opinion on former Canuck Anders Elderbrink (forgive me for the incorrect spelling).  Just how good was he?  I think we gave up on him too early (granted it was a different game back then).  I just heard from one fan Swedish hockey during that time who said he was a great defenseman.

[canuckleheads fan]

8 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Well, I'm a bit tired of the Gillis horrible and Benning terrific at drafting.

They both had a whole team of scouts.

So it depends more on how good the scouts before them are.

You can't argue with Benning's success, finding gems late in the first round and lower rounds, uncovering a diamond like EP who was not high on anybody's list. Being able to see how a player could develop in the future as opposed to being NHL ready on draft day. Benning travels all over the world to give guys the eyeball test, and he has the final say on draft day. 

[J-P]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

How long have you followed hockey?  No, this isn’t a thinly veiled insult.  I ask because I wanted your opinion on former Canuck Anders Elderbrink (forgive me for the incorrect spelling).  Just how good was he?  I think we gave up on him too early (granted it was a different game back then).  I just heard from one fan Swedish hockey during that time who said he was a great defenseman.

I did not follow Eldebrink's stint in VAN (which would have been pretty much impossible back then anyway living in Europe) but did follow him in SHL/WC etc and would say he was easily top 5-10 among defensemen in Europe for a number of years. Maybe Ohlund didn't quite reach his potential due to the eye injury and Ohlund was a bit more physical but no doubt in my mind that Eldebrink was the superior player both offensively and defensively. (As mentioned, no insight as to why he didn't work out in the NHL or how his game translated to NA)

[J-P]

2 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

You can't argue with Benning's success, finding gems late in the first round and lower rounds, uncovering a diamond like EP who was not high on anybody's list. Being able to see how a player could develop in the future as opposed to being NHL ready on draft day. Benning travels all over the world to give guys the eyeball test, and he has the final say on draft day. 

I believe it's a bit of both. Benning himself being a good scout is part of it, assembling a better team and working better with it because he's a good scout is part of it, the team itself being much better is part of it etc. But the selections of EP, QH, Podz and Hogs took balls, no denying that.

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

And this isn't what my problem is 

My problem is with how Benning handled the situation, talking about something close to spoiled youth wich led to a lot of unnecesary hate against Dahlen.

If a GM does that deliberatedly you don't want him as a boss.

What follows is that Petey probably has bad feelings against Benning also and it's not good with issues leading to stress in muscles. 

You probably knows what that means. 

I think that had a lot more to do with how the fan base and media reacted.  JB didn't offer up much of anything, and it got spun from there.   At the time i was also dissappointed as had high hopes for Dahlen, since nothing to complain about it was the correct move, he isn't an NHLer and we have a younger depth player that could be, probably not but neither was Dahlen, good recycling and also avoided like i say, a situation where EPs feelings would be decided as a higher metric then what's good for the team.    One reason i'm not too keen on drafting LH.   Risks involved ...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, J-P said:

I did not follow Eldebrink's stint in VAN (which would have been pretty much impossible back then anyway living in Europe) but did follow him in SHL/WC etc and would say he was easily top 5-10 among defensemen in Europe for a number of years. Maybe Ohlund didn't quite reach his potential due to the eye injury and Ohlund was a bit more physical but no doubt in my mind that Eldebrink was the superior player both offensively and defensively. (As mentioned, no insight as to why he didn't work out in the NHL or how his game translated to NA)

Thanks for your input.

 

Cheers!

[canuckleheads fan]

10 hours ago, J-P said:

I believe it's a bit of both. Benning himself being a good scout is part of it, assembling a better team and working better with it because he's a good scout is part of it, the team itself being much better is part of it etc. But the selections of EP, QH, Podz, and Hogs took balls, no denying that.

If you look at next year's team, Benning draft choices will probably make up better than a third of the roster; that's very impressive, considering there are no first, second, or third overall picks on this team.

EP, QH, Hogs, Pods, Lind, OJ, Brock, probably Gadj and Rathbone, and of course, undrafted Big Mac.

Edited May 16, 2021 by canuckleheads fan

[combover]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

How many times do I have to say that drafting is more about the scouts. 

One example is Petey that Inge Hammarström pushed really hard for.

Without Inge no Petey.

Inge was also the reason why Dahlen came her because Benning called Inge and Inge said Dahlen is the best swedish young player, after Petey, so take him.

That didn't work out as planned but without Inge, no Dahlen. 

It’s the only thing left that they can pump “but he drafts good.”

it’s literally  The only remaining excuse they have.

They won’t admit that the draft actually only improved after Bracket got promoted and the guy who was head of scouting all through the Gillis days and before  demoted.

Bad contracts - response but he drafts good

terrible signing -  response he drafts good

lets countless players leave for nothing - he drafts good

bad Trades - he drafts good

cap mismanaged - he drafts good

and the truth of it Is he’s been drafting in the top ten !!!! I don’t think any gm in canucks history has picked so many times in the top ten. 

keenan

nonis 

Benning 

worst gms in team history 
 

 

 

[TheRussianRocket1994]

Look, there's positives and negatives with both Gillis and Benning. Then, people want to run gm's and coaches out of town and hire someone new with the assumption they'll be better, even perfect. No one is perfect, so guess what, eventually these same people will be b******* and complaining about the new gm and / or coach and eventually wanting to run them out of town. Rinse and repeat! 

 

What's more annoying, is people talking about Benning missing the playoffs for 6 years. Do you know how drafting high / rebuilding (retooling) works?? It means missing the playoffs, finishing near the bottom...that's how the drafting high thing works. It's called the life cycle of a team. Could it have taken less time, perhaps, but it could also take longer. Look at all the other examples over time, some are shorter, some are longer, but it's never an overnight solution. It also doesn't mean you try and ice the worst team possible...that's how teams end up in perpetual losing / negativity. Eg. Edmonton / Buffalo. Although Edmonton may be finally turning the corner. 

 

Now, i'm not defending everything Benning has done or siding on either side of him staying or leaving, but some fans / media need to stop making their own facts to peruse their hate / agenda. The grass isn't always greener. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

5 minutes ago, IRR said:

What's more annoying, is people talking about Benning missing the playoffs for 6 years. Do you know how drafting high / rebuilding (retooling) works?? It means missing the playoffs, finishing near the bottom...that's how the drafting high thing works. It's called the life cycle of a team. Could it have taken less time, perhaps, but it could also take longer. Look at all the other examples over time, some are shorter, some are longer, but it's never an overnight solution. It also doesn't mean you try and ice the worst team possible...that's how teams end up in perpetual losing / negativity. Eg. Edmonton / Buffalo. Although Edmonton may be finally turning the corner. 

 

Now, i'm not defending everything Benning has done or siding on either side of him staying or leaving, but some fans / media need to stop making their own facts to peruse their hate / agenda. The grass isn't always greener. 

Totally agree about the cycles that teams go through.

 

However, it’s also highly unusual for a team to go through a down/rebuilding phase like the Canucks have, for the past seven years, and keep the same GM. It’s much more common for a team with similar results to be on their second or even third management group, by this point in time. 
 

I’d be interested to hear of any example within the past 25 years of a GM remaining at the helm after his tenure yielding similar results to JB’s.

 

I’ve never been one of the people actively rooting for Benning to be fired, but I’ve also been somewhat baffled by his ability to remain unscathed and secure in his position as Canucks GM. Just based on the norms, around the league, and the standards most GMs are held to, Benning could easily have been fired several times over already.

 

He’s really been the cat with nine lives in Vancouver.

[Gurn]

12 hours ago, wildcam said:

Pronger would be my pick if your replacing Benning...

I had to check and see if some team was still paying him to not play hockey, turns out 2016/17 was his last year