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[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs Calgary Flames | May 16, 2021 | 7:30 p.m. PT | SNP | PLAYOFF SERIES VS CALGARY EDITION

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3 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

It makes sense now seeing all the miller trade proposals. Miller wants to win and this fanbase is full of losers.

No one will win anything  of importance if they can't surround them with high end talent.

Oh, but how wonderful for those guys to win a loser game forced onto to the team by the NHL. 

Oh, and let's play that loser game while the real teams are playing in the playoffs.

 

The big losers are the people being happy with a meaningless win that only screws our draft position.  

 

Brilliant 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Anyone praising tanking, read this and piss off. 

Good on Miller (should be our Captain) and he should be pumped - 3pts last night.

 

Imo, last nights game, seemed like an All star game - with no real benefits to the team cause the players know it is all (meaningless) morale victories and padding stats time during these games.  Drafting a high end talent will benefit the team more in the long term; ofcourse, there is always the chance of the player busting out and the team going the Deadmonton or Sabres way but each situations has to be (each) looked at with some context to see why they had failed or are still failing in the Sabres case.  Lots of cases were teams had recognized a losing season to transition the roster from the old to the new and are still being rewarded with those high end talent still keeping the team competitive.  The players have a short memory and will forget this season; hopefully having a new staff with fresh ideas will be hired and a top 3 pick will make this losing season not seem so bad.

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1 minute ago, appleboy said:

No one will win anything  of importance if they can't surround them with high end talent.

Oh, but how wonderful for those guys to win a loser game forced onto to the team by the NHL. 

Oh, and let's play that loser game while the real teams are playing in the playoffs.

 

The big losers are the people being happy with a meaningless win that only screws our draft position.  

 

Brilliant 

Teams that are playing in the playoffs right now are doing so because they had multiple top 5 picks turn into elite players.

 

Fans want those players but can’t stand losing to get them. It’s why ownership is constantly trying to win because they think this fan base can’t handle a proper rebuild. And in a lot of ways they’re right.

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6 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Good on Miller (should be our Captain).

 

Imo, last nights game, seemed like an All star game.

Horvat is and should be our Captain. Miller is next in line for an A though. 

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5 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Teams that are playing in the playoffs right now are doing so because they had multiple top 5 picks turn into elite players.

 

Fans want those players but can’t stand losing to get them. It’s why ownership is constantly trying to win because they think this fan base can’t handle a proper rebuild. And in a lot of ways they’re right.

You’re ignoring Horvat, Pettersson, Hugges and Boeser. Look at forest and stop focusing on the tree. 

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28 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

One thing you're forgetting is the culture element. These guys were all brought in to play the hard mins and be quality people for young prospects learning the league.  Imagine EP/BB/Hughes/Demko etc.  playing with ringers that don't necessarily have the leadership/buy in that these guys have.  It can create a very toxic environment and not one you want to have your future core pieces develop in.  

 

Yes, the cap hits arnt the most efficient and yes you can also argue that JB might have gambled wrong on how productive some of these players would be but cant ignore the quality of character these players were.  What really hurt JBs plans were no one predicted a COVID flat cap for a few years and the Luongo re cap didn't help.  

 

Signing these guys was part of the plan to develop the young players in a supportive environment.  Just look at this season now-Miller, Myers, Edler etc.  arnt going to mail it in.  The young guys need to have leaders like that around.  

 

But moving forward who knows what will happen.  Fan frustration is pretty high and optics probably demand changes.  Personally, I get why people think a team president is needed like Linden.  Someone who can articulate the GM and coaches plans, esp. if JB and Green stay on.

 

I think the leadership element needed by signing a bunch of vets was significantly overblown though tbh. 

 

I dont classify Roussel, Schaller, Eriksson, Baertschi, Vey, Clendening, etc. as guys brought in for their leadership though. Any of them could have been replaced in the manner I described.

 

Maybe Beagle and Sutter could be lumped in there for leadership qualities. We had Edler and Tanev on the back end. Was Myers necessary for more leadership there at the time? Probably not. And thats not why he was signed. If Edler leaves with Tanev already gone then sure its good to have I guess.

 

The we needed to insulate our youth argument works with a couple of signings or trades, not a dozen of them.

 

Look at our current bottom 6. You cant see from other players traded for cap relief around the league that lots of those spots could have adequately been replaced with those kind of trades? We have 2 waiver wire guys currently. And a bunch of others who are not really all that good. 

 

Its not a stretch to see some similar quality vets have been available by the method I described.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Devron44 said:

Communication with fans was never a strong point of JB’s….

 

I like what we have brewing here but I don’t ignore there’s been mistakes along the way. Nor do I ignore the fact we have a way brighter future then a lot of teams 

Apparently, JB’s communication with his players was never a strong point of his either. That’s a far greater concern.
 

JB was slow to cap-crunch & make crucial decisions, take decisive action, or even communicate  assurances that he would get anything done to his players, their agents & their families…on virtually all matters. 
 

JB has definite liabilities as a NHL GM. Aqua-man should demote him to a position where he is best-suited or fire him outright. JB wasn’t even savy enough to retain/hire the persons who could do all of the work that JB was ill-suited for, himself. 
 

The Canucks’ roster of players & their long-suffering fans deserve far better in pursuit of building a healthy, thriving, progressive & winning franchise in VanCity,..,meaning they deserve quality & competence TOP to bottom. 

Pray that the Aquilini’s are still up to delivering upon this task & that they will be heeding the right advisors going forward. 

 

Edited by viking mama
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11 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Teams that are playing in the playoffs right now are doing so because they had multiple top 5 picks turn into elite players.

 

Fans want those players but can’t stand losing to get them. It’s why ownership is constantly trying to win because they think this fan base can’t handle a proper rebuild. And in a lot of ways they’re right.

Yeah, the ownership should just come right out about a rebuild or set the expectations for the year cause most fans (I assumed and the non vocals) understand that in a losing season the only real benefit to the team longterm is have an opportunity to be able to insert a hight end talent into the roster without overpaying for it in assets & cap through FA or trades.  Unless ofcourse that ownership is always pushing to make the playoffs for the $ (which I understand), is probably why they didn't transition the rookies in until the team was officially eliminated - it is after all a business but there are alot of examples of teams succeeding and not but that will mainly depend on the front office & a willing owner (with some luck in the lottery) to implement a successful rebuild.

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1 minute ago, viking mama said:

Apparently, JB’s communication with his players was never a strong point of his either. That’s a far greater concern.
 

JB was slow to cap-crunch & make crucial decisions, take decisive action, and even slower to communicate any assurances that he would get anything done to his players, their agents & their families…on virtually every matter. 
 

JB has many liabilities as a NHL GM. Demote him to a position where he is best suited or fire him outright. JB wasn’t even savy enough to hire or even retain the persons savy enough to do the work of which JB was incapable himself. 
 

The Canucks roster of players & their fans deserve far better in pursuit of building a healthy, thriving, progressive & winning franchise in VanCity,..,meaning quality & competence TOP to bottom. 
 

 

Yeah, the messaging from the front office was always very cryptic with some ambivalence; would perhaps had been better if Aquaman sold the rebuild himself - I am sure he can afford a marketing firm to sell it to the public and good chance most fans will understand.  Morale victories don't get the team a Mcd or a Crosby

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10 minutes ago, viking mama said:

Apparently, JB’s communication with his players was never a strong point of his either. That’s a far greater concern.
 

JB was slow to cap-crunch & make crucial decisions, take decisive action, and even slower to communicate any assurances that he would get anything done to his players, their agents & their families…on virtually every matter. 
 

JB has many liabilities as a NHL GM. Demote him to a position where he is best suited or fire him outright. JB wasn’t even savy enough to hire or even retain the persons savy enough to do the work of which JB was incapable himself. 
 

The Canucks roster of players & their fans deserve far better in pursuit of building a healthy, thriving, progressive & winning franchise in VanCity,..,meaning quality & competence TOP to bottom. 
 

 

if what you are saying is true, then why is JB is considered up there among GM'S in the league

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10 minutes ago, viking mama said:

Apparently, JB’s communication with his players was never a strong point of his either. That’s a far greater concern.
 

JB was slow to cap-crunch & make crucial decisions, take decisive action, and even slower to communicate any assurances that he would get anything done to his players, their agents & their families…on virtually every matter. 
 

JB has many liabilities as a NHL GM. Demote him to a position where he is best suited or fire him outright. JB wasn’t even savy enough to hire or even retain the persons savy enough to do the work of which JB was incapable himself. 
 

The Canucks roster of players & their fans deserve far better in pursuit of building a healthy, thriving, progressive & winning franchise in VanCity,..,meaning quality & competence TOP to bottom. 
 

 

I don’t see it the same way and honestly I have no clue what Canucks fans truly deserve.
 

It’s not worth my time to bang my head on the wall with other posters about Jim Benning. He’s not an idiot like people make him out to be and he’s brought in a crop of players I’m excited about. But like I’ve said to countless posters I don’t care either way if he’s back or not. I ain’t worried about it either way. He’s gotten us what I needed from him. JT, hogz, Bess, Petey, Demko, Hughes etc. If we didn’t have guys like Hogz step right in AGAIN this year maybe I’d be more worried. Rathbone also looks legit. Cap correction coming she’s all good 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Angry Goose said:

One thing you're forgetting is the culture element. These guys were all brought in to play the hard mins and be quality people for young prospects learning the league.  Imagine EP/BB/Hughes/Demko etc.  playing with ringers that don't necessarily have the leadership/buy in that these guys have.  It can create a very toxic environment and not one you want to have your future core pieces develop in.  

 

Yes, the cap hits arnt the most efficient and yes you can also argue that JB might have gambled wrong on how productive some of these players would be but cant ignore the quality of character these players were.  What really hurt JBs plans were no one predicted a COVID flat cap for a few years and the Luongo re cap didn't help.  

 

Signing these guys was part of the plan to develop the young players in a supportive environment.  Just look at this season now-Miller, Myers, Edler etc.  arnt going to mail it in.  The young guys need to have leaders like that around.  

 

But moving forward who knows what will happen.  Fan frustration is pretty high and optics probably demand changes.  Personally, I get why people think a team president is needed like Linden.  Someone who can articulate the GM and coaches plans, esp. if JB and Green stay on.

 

Good points, but as proven by those players you listed it doesn't take them long to adapt themselves in the leagues and the support or mentoring (in today's pro sports) can also come from coaches or etc, not just overpayed bottom 6 vets that are good at faceoffs (faceoffs are important but it is only one part of the game).  I would argue, going with the Laffs model of filling there roster with former first line players to cheap & short term deals: Thornton & Spezza 700k each a year; and actually mentor the core from real experience as former top line players with the added bonus of being more productive on the ice as well.

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19 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Teams that are playing in the playoffs right now are doing so because they had multiple top 5 picks turn into elite players.

 

Fans want those players but can’t stand losing to get them. It’s why ownership is constantly trying to win because they think this fan base can’t handle a proper rebuild. And in a lot of ways they’re right.

Please enlighten me on the multiple top 5 picks NYI, Wild, St. Louis, VGK, Jets (Wheeler, 2004 draftee, was acquired by trade), Caps, Boston, Nashville, Carolina have. Multiple lol. 

 

I'll at least name teams with more than one top 5 picks (most have just 2)-

Pens, Habs (Kotkaniemi is the 2nd top 5 pick besides Price, hardly a core player. Drouin was acquired via trade) Tampa, Colorado, Leafs, Oilers, Panthers. 5/7 never won a cup with their current roster. Of the two that have, one team has Sidney Crosby (Pens won a lottery during the lockout season), and the other didn't win a cup for 12 years after drafting the first piece of their core. Also, we already went further in the playoffs last year than 5/7 teams.

 

If you're going to preach losing, at least find a correlation between what you're incessantly arguing for and what the actual reality is. A little bit of perspective will do our team's fan base real good. We need to relax and little, things are looking upward, we will be fine. 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, appleboy said:

No one will win anything  of importance if they can't surround them with high end talent.

Oh, but how wonderful for those guys to win a loser game forced onto to the team by the NHL. 

Oh, and let's play that loser game while the real teams are playing in the playoffs.

 

The big losers are the people being happy with a meaningless win that only screws our draft position.  

 

Brilliant 

We didn’t win lol we lost in OT. This forum needs to get off the “ draft position “ train. I get it this has been a terrible year on and off the ice. We will get a draft pick 1-10 spot guaranteed and we will draft the best player possible in that slot. I love this team and we will be better next year. I’ve watched a lot of Canuck teams and there have been some reallllllly bad teams over my 35 plus years of supporting this team. But I can tell you we have never had such a young talented core such as this in front of us. We will be better next year and we will be a playoff team with fans in the stands. Tired of the negativity same ole excuses, blaming mgt/ owners etc. Easy to kick when the organization as a whole is down top to bottom. I want a winner here and know we will win with this core.

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