[proposal] Are Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel “moveable” this summer?

[Patel Bure]

[proposal] Are Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel “moveable” this summer?

Unlike many Canuck fans, I’m not as down on the Canucks due to my belief that the 2022-2023 season could be a massive year for us:
 

1) Pettersson and Hughes will likely be on shorter term cap friendly deals

2) Boeser will still be a cost controlled asset

3) Schmidt, Miller, and Horvat will still be on relatively low cap friendly deals

4) Rathbone, Podkolzin, and Hoglander will be on ELC’s.

5) Juolevi will be on a cheap bridge deal

6) Our 2021 1st round pick In this coming draft *might* be a factor in our 22-23 line up and would be on an ELC if he is

7) All of our overpaid/transitional contracts will be off the books except for Tyler Myers

 

At this time, the Canucks should have some serious money to spend on some very high ticket UFA’s in the summer of 2022.  Parayko, Seth Jones, Filip Forsberg, and Alexander Barkov all come to mind.   It’s very likely that we could end up with at least one of these guys given what would likely be our perception amongst UFA’s at the time (ie solid young core with massive potential).  
 

I am also of the opinion that the Canucks might be able to kickstart this process as early as this summer if they are able to move one or more of Roussel, Beagle, and Eriksson.   If the Canucks can use that freed up money to bring in a top 4 “defensive” defenseman (Adam Larsson, David Savard, etc) + a good 3rd line center (Wenneberg), then I think we could demonstrate to the fans, Canucks players, and external UFA’s that we are serious about winning and that our efforts in 19-20 wasn’t an anomaly.

 

So - my questions are three fold:

 

1) Are Eriksson, Roussel, and Beagle moveable in the summer with only one year left on their contracts?

 

2) If you answered ‘yes’ to the above question, then how high would you be willing to go?  And would it be realistic to assume that we could move those guys?   Obviously - most of us would agree that using a 1st and Rathbone to move players would be a tremendous misuse of resources.   But would a 2nd round pick be a strong enough sweetener?  (Bearing in mind that our 2nd round pick wouldn’t be too far off from the first round).   The comparable I like to use is Marc Staal.  The Redwings took on Staal’s 5.7 million dollar contract with one year left and got a 2nd rounder for their efforts.   Granted, while Staal is a defenseman and will have more value than Eriksson, would a guy like Marc Staal have more value than a Jay Beagle or an Antoine Roussel?   I’m not so sure.

 

While Eriksson is likely unmovable, Am I misguided in my belief that both Beagle and Roussel can be moved in this off season? (A 2nd as a sweetener for one player + a 3rd and a 7th as a sweetener for another player).  
 

While I’m inclined to believe that such as move is possible, I’m a little unclear as to why the Canucks did not do this with Brandon Sutter this past off season (either no one was willing to take him on, OR the Canucks felt that he was a guy that they needed to hang onto since they weren’t quite sold on Adam Gaudette).   If it was the latter however, and the Canucks actually were capable of moving Sutter had they truly wanted, then I would like to see the Canucks use 2nd/player + 3rd/7th/player to clear both Beagle and Roussel in independent deals and get 6th round picks in return.  With that freed up money, we then take a run at both Adam Larsson and Alex Wenneberg.

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Pearson-Wenneberg-Lind

Motte-Graovich-Highmore

 

Schmidt-Larsson (maybe Ryan Murray instead - allows Schmidt to play the right side)

Hughes-Hamonic

Juolevi-Myers (or Rathbone instead of OJ)

 

Demko

Holtby

 

 

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

My answer is no i dont think they can get rid of them. Or want to. Think they just wanna bite the bullet on all 3 for one last year.

[ken kaniff]

Usually rebuilding teams get a premium assets for taking on bad contracts like Roussel, Beagle and Eriksson. But Benning in his infinite stupidity decided to cut out the middle man and sign those bad contracts himself. So no, unless we give another team a premium asset to take those contracts there is no way to get rid of them. Just got to ride out the rest of the term and hope Benning is either fired or doesn’t sign anymore contracts that handcuff the team

[Ghostsof1915]

8 minutes ago, ken kaniff said:

Usually rebuilding teams get a premium assets for taking on bad contracts like Roussel, Beagle and Eriksson. But Benning in his infinite stupidity decided to cut out the middle man and sign those bad contracts himself. So no, unless we give another team a premium asset to take those contracts there is no way to get rid of them. Just got to ride out the rest of the term and hope Benning is either fired or doesn’t sign anymore contracts that handcuff the team

Eriksson was a UFA coming off of a 30 goal 63 point season. I'm pretty sure he was brought in to play with the Twins. What should have raised alarm bells was the length of term. 

Had Benning known Eriksson would have sucked that bad, pretty sure he wouldn't have signed him. Beagle if he's healthy probably has the most value of the three. Is $3 million a bit much for a 4th liner? Yes. But he can play 3rd line minutes in a pinch if you have injuries. He also takes a load off Bo with face-offs. 

 

I'm pretty sure Pat Quinn wouldn't have signed he who shall not be named if he knew how that $6 million contract was going to pan out the way it did. 

 

If anything we have mediocre to poor pro scouts. And Benning should have gotten an AGM that can work out contracts and manage the cap. 

[JM_]

we can't afford to give away picks for teams to take our bad contracts, we need to convince these guys to go to Robidas Island. 

 

Or just wait a year. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[ken kaniff]

41 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Eriksson was a UFA coming off of a 30 goal 63 point season. I'm pretty sure he was brought in to play with the Twins. What should have raised alarm bells was the length of term. 

Had Benning known Eriksson would have sucked that bad, pretty sure he wouldn't have signed him. Beagle if he's healthy probably has the most value of the three. Is $3 million a bit much for a 4th liner? Yes. But he can play 3rd line minutes in a pinch if you have injuries. He also takes a load off Bo with face-offs. 

 

I'm pretty sure Pat Quinn wouldn't have signed he who shall not be named if he knew how that $6 million contract was going to pan out the way it did. 

 

If anything we have mediocre to poor pro scouts. And Benning should have gotten an AGM that can work out contracts and manage the cap. 

As I recall, almost every sports writer and analyst was saying JB should stay away from LE. Almost every fan who knew anything about the Canucks was saying stay away from LE and rebuild. Nobody could have foreseen how bad LE has actually been. I never wanted him but I didn’t think he would be this bad. However he should not have been signed in the first place regardless of 30G season.
 

As soon as the Roussel and Beagle contracts were signed people were saying wtf. These guys were not needed on this team at that time. And now lo and behold they are anchors not worth their money. Overpaid at the time they signed and worse now. 

When casual hockey fans and sports writers have more foresight than our GM then there are problems. Regardless of the bad pro scouts and ASM, Benning should have known better than to sign these guys. No passes for stupidity. Can’t believe people still cling to this clown after everything he has done wrong. Doing a few things right does not excuse everything else

[Devron]

No. It’s one year. Patience 

[Drakrami]

Nice optimism. But what is fueling it? 

 

Benning has been going out to shop every single year hes been here. Seems like every year he is signing someone to 6 million or 3 million contracts or trading for one. So why your optimism of having a lot of cap space. The big names and solid contributors you have listed either 1) stay with their old team like 90% of the time or 2) they already have a preferred destination or there is a bidding way for their service aka there will be overpayment. So your dream of this happening is actually quite low. 

[J-Dizzle]

1 hour ago, ken kaniff said:

As I recall, almost every sports writer and analyst was saying JB should stay away from LE. Almost every fan who knew anything about the Canucks was saying stay away from LE and rebuild. 

This is factually incorrect. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

8 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

This is factually incorrect. 

Yeah completely false lol

[NewbieCanuckFan]

The one sad thing about our AHL affiliate moving to Abby.  Less of a threat of shoving a guy like Eriksson to minors to force him to retire (eg. long bus rides for the Comets).  Pay me a few million and I’ll move to Abby tonight.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Devron44 said:

No. It’s one year. Patience 

It’s not as much an issue of patience as it is in trying to prevent a losing culture.    
 

While 22-23 does seem extremely promising for the reasons that I listed, the Canucks can’t risk heading into another season where morale is low amongst players and players.  To some degree, management needs to convince the players that THIS season was the anomaly and not the 19-20 season.   Obviously - it would be bad asset management to use a 1st or Rathbone as sweeteners to move bad contracts since both of these ‘pieces’ could be instrumental in the 22-23 season and onwards, but the other end of this is that “being patient” and not trying to move bad contracts could result in veteran players becoming unhappy.  We are seeing how things are playing out in Buffalo for instance.  Our core watched guys like Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli being let go by management, and they need to be led to believe that there was a reason for this.   Guys like Myers, Schmidt, and Miller need to be convinced that they were brought in here for a reason.

 

Hence, my position:   If a 2nd gets you rid of [BeagleORRoussel] and a 3rd and a 7th gets you rid of [BeagleORRoussel], those are two deals that you jump on.

[Patel Bure]

59 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Nice optimism. But what is fueling it? 

 

Benning has been going out to shop every single year hes been here. Seems like every year he is signing someone to 6 million or 3 million contracts or trading for one. So why your optimism of having a lot of cap space. The big names and solid contributors you have listed either 1) stay with their old team like 90% of the time or 2) they already have a preferred destination or there is a bidding way for their service aka there will be overpayment. So your dream of this happening is actually quite low. 

My optimism is based on the fact that big name UFA’s are attracted to teams that are either.....

 

1) Contenders

2) Teams with a young promising core that look headed towards being a contender.

 

I am of the belief that in 22-23, big name UFA’s will see us as #2.

 

In previous years, from 16-19, the Canucks were a downward trending team and so superstars were not interested in playing here.  The Canucks traded for and/or overpaid certain players because this was a far lesser evil than promoting kids within the system that weren’t ready to take on certain roles.  The overpriced vets being brought in were reknowned leaders on their former teams (or once formerly great players), that could help set up the correct culture in Vancouver.  
 

In 22-23 however, the Canucks won’t have to target “culture carriers” because....

 

1) Unlike before, lots of young guys should be ready to step into certain roles.  Guys like Rathbone, Juolevi, Hoglander, just to name a few.

 

2) Guys like Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Miller, Schmidt, Hughes, and Demko are now the new “culture carrying” core players.
 

In 22-23, or even as early as this summer, it will be a matter of attracting high ticket UFA’s who believe in the young core and prospects that we have assembled.

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we can't afford to give away picks for teams to take our bad contracts, we need to convince these guys to go to Robidas Island. 

 

Or just wait a year. 

Agreed that we shouldn’t be using 1sts or top prospects (Rathbone, OJ, Podz, etc) as sweeteners, but you don’t think using a 2nd and 3rd+7th (or 3rd + mid prospect) would be worth using as a sweetener?

[Devron]

11 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

It’s not as much an issue of patience as it is in trying to prevent a losing culture.    
 

While 22-23 does seem extremely promising for the reasons that I listed, the Canucks can’t risk heading into another season where morale is low amongst players and players.  To some degree, management needs to convince the players that THIS season was the anomaly and not the 19-20 season.   Obviously - it would be bad asset management to use a 1st or Rathbone as sweeteners to move bad contracts since both of these ‘pieces’ could be instrumental in the 22-23 season and onwards, but the other end of this is that “being patient” and not trying to move bad contracts could result in veteran players becoming unhappy.  We are seeing how things are playing out in Buffalo for instance.  Our core watched guys like Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli being let go by management, and they need to be led to believe that there was a reason for this.   Guys like Myers, Schmidt, and Miller need to be convinced that they were brought in here for a reason.

 

Hence, my position:   If a 2nd gets you rid of [BeagleORRoussel] and a 3rd and a 7th gets you rid of [BeagleORRoussel], those are two deals that you jump on.

Who are we going to get? More free agents to be unhappy with? Free agency isn’t the answer. The odd time a team strikes gold but for the most part it’s overpayments. I’d argue that has changed a bit with a flat cap but my point stands.

 

At this rate we aren’t going to lose anyone of significance like last year. I don’t see us achieving anything by trading those other then losing assets. we trade those guys and what sign Ryan Nugent Hopkins to a multi year deal. I donno, I’m personally content with letting those contract run out 

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Who are we going to get? More free agents to be unhappy with? Free agency isn’t the answer. The odd time a team strikes gold but for the most part it’s overpayments. I’d argue that has changed a bit with a flat cap but my point stands.

 

At this rate we aren’t going to lose anyone of significance like last year. I don’t see us achieving anything by trading those other then losing assets. we trade those guys and what sign Ryan Nugent Hopkins to a multi year deal. I donno, I’m personally content with letting those contract run out 

I’m thinking that a good 3rd line center and another top 4 calibre “defensive” dman would go a long way for this team.  
 

This is what I would do:

 

1) If it’s possible, make two deals to get rid of Beagle and Roussel.  A 2nd as a sweetener to move one + A 3rd/7th OR A 3rd/mid-prospect to get rid of another.   We get two 6th’s or two 7th’s in return.  
 

2) With 6 million in extra cap space, use that money to go HARD after Adam Larsson or David Savard.

 

3) Re-sign Hamonic

 

4) Use one of Rathbone or Juolevi to trade for a good young two way 3rd line center that good defensively and on face offs, and has decent playmaking ability.

 

2021-2022:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Pearson-[JuoleviORRathboneTrade]-Lind

Motte-[GraovichORBoyd]-Highmore

 

Schmidt-[LarssonORSavard]
Hughes-Hamonic

[JuoleviORRathbone]-Myers

 

Demko

[HoltbyORDipietro]

 

22-23 off-season = go HARD after another winger.   Like a Filip Forsberg type guy.   This also may not be necessary by the way if [2021 1st] is ready to step into the line-up on an ELC.

 

 

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

22 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed that we shouldn’t be using 1sts or top prospects (Rathbone, OJ, Podz, etc) as sweeteners, but you don’t think using a 2nd and 3rd+7th (or 3rd + mid prospect) would be worth using as a sweetener?

imo opinion we cant afford to give up prospects by gaining cap, all it does is let us spin the wheel of misfortune in the ufa market

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, Petey_BOI said:

imo opinion we cant afford to give up prospects by gaining cap, all it does is let us spin the wheel of misfortune in the ufa market

I agree that give up guys like Juolevi, Rathbone, Podkolzin, or a 1st would be the height of stupidity, but I don’t think we should be so conservative either......especially after the year that we just had.

 

I think a lot of core players are upset by the fact that we just let Markstrom, Toffoli, and Tanev walk and they need to be convinced that this year was an anomaly.  If we have a repeat of next season, we could end up going down Buffalo’s path in terms of even the veteran leadership group wanting out or not “buying in.”     
 

While guys like Adam Larsson and David Savard won’t move the needle that much by themselves, it will demonstrate to the team, the fans, and future UFA’s that we are serious about winning.  
 

While I also agree that Loui Eriksson isn’t moveable at this point, I believe that both Beagle and Roussel.  Both players have more value than Marc Staal, and Staal was able to be moved with a 2nd round as a sweetener last season.

[Phil_314]

On another hockey fan site I suggested Roussel to NYR after the Wilson incident, and fans were very much down for taking him for someone like Howden who they viewed as nothing special (just because he came over as part of a big TB trade doesn't mean he's realized his potential as a 1st round pick).  With around $23 million in cap space, and Shesterkin, Chytil and Buchnevich as their primary players to re-sign (Hajek too though he didn't produce much), they should be able to take a couple of million to add grit that they would want (depending on whether Beagle goes to LTIR due to his injury or not, he could also be available). 

[ken kaniff]

1 hour ago, J-Dizzle said:

This is factually incorrect. 

This is factually incorrect...Yet proves no facts on the contrary lol.

 

And before you jump on me for having no facts myself, I did try looking up articles but couldn’t find anything from 2016 other than just announcing the LE signing.

Edited May 16, 2021 by ken kaniff