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Rebuilding our Defense Long term (Discussion)


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42 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

damn Jan, you dream big :lol:

 

I wonder if we really want to hit the reset button, maybe exposing Nate Schmidt to Seattle is the first step.... hear me out. We got him for very little cost, so losing him for creating cap space is actually worthwhile. Clearing 6 mil in cap space for a 3rd rounder is something you'd take any other time.

 

If Seattle takes Nate, and honestly they'd be dumb not to, with that and a Virtanen buy out you can go get Hamilton.

 

Add to that I think we could get Zadorov from CHI for a bargain.

 

Hughes-Myers

Juolevii-Hamilton

Rathbone-Zadorov

 

 

I love your Zadorov add Jimmy..............great size..............what  is the cost? I wonder how Woo will do in the BIGS? Does he fit in along side Rathbone?

 

I like the thought of a ..........pairings

 

Rathbone - Woo

Juolevi - Zadorov

 

Questions I wonder out loud about.

 

Can Woo play that kind of minutes?

Can Juolevi play shut down minutes?

 

It is one of the reason's I created this post, as I see Rathbone as a better overall fit defensively than Hughes, and I wonder if the offensive trade offs, are enough to have a Rathbone or a Hamilton or a Clarke, swap out for Hughes. I think they do.

 

I am all about trade offs, and "IF" a certain scenario would work better

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49 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I just wonder why everyone loves to put Hamonic with Hughes?

 

Hughes is a _36 over 82 games playing with Hamonic

 

Like what is there not to understand about that? Maybe you can explain it to me! Please!

I wasn’t aware of that stat.  I think most people (including me) see Hamonic as the closest thing that we have to a Tanev and so we automatically place him with Hughes.  
 

Might be time to move on from Hamonic in that case.  

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8 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I wasn’t aware of that stat.  I think most people (including me) see Hamonic as the closest thing that we have to a Tanev and so we automatically place him with Hughes.  
 

Might be time to move on from Hamonic in that case.  

To be fair

 

I don't think the whole (-24)  - 36 can be attributed playing with Hamonic and it is a simple calculation, but the point remains, that who ever we have play with Hughes, has to be an extremely good defensive player, or we go backwards when he plays.

 

It is why, I am not as high on Hughes as some.....I still love him, but to me, he could be replaced if we can not fix the leak......................

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While I would be tempted to consider Cozens and a 1st for Hughes, I think there is an undervaluing of Hughes going on in general.  He has had 2 of the top 10 offensive seasons by a Canuck defenseman and is 21.  He is special, he is learning the defensive side of the game and should be afforded some leeway in that pursuit.  

 

Anyone who thinks, after a few games, that Rathbone is ready to be as good or better than the best offensive defenseman we have had since Reinhart, is nuts.  He may be a very good nhl player but the jury is still out.  I think that, for a change, the hockey gods smiled on Vancouver after getting screwed by the lottery again and again and let us draft Petersson and Hughes and we shouldn't be too quick to say goodbye to such a special player.  I remember after Bure left, hockey was nowhere near as fun and Canucks waited awhile for Naslund to become a great goal scorer.

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3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

To be fair

 

I don't think the whole (-24)  - 36 can be attributed playing with Hamonic and it is a simple calculation, but the point remains, that who ever we have play with Hughes, has to be an extremely good defensive player, or we go backwards when he plays.

 

It is why, I am not as high on Hughes as some.....I still love him, but to me, he could be replaced if we can not fix the leak......................

Fair enough.

 

For me, my biggest frustration was our mishandling of Nate Schmidt.  The guy was a Norris trophy candidate just a few short seasons ago, and clearly thrives playing on the right side in a more offensive capacity with a defensively responsible partner.  
 

Atleast from my perspective, the Canucks should be doing whatever they can to create that perfect scenario for Schmidt.  Hence, my ideas for preemptively bringing in Hampus Lindholm (sign and trade to us), or even re-exploring the OEL deal.  
 

Watching the misuse of Schmidt this year was one of the most disappointing things that I’ve ever witnessed as a Canucks fan.

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15 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Fair enough.

 

For me, my biggest frustration was our mishandling of Nate Schmidt.  The guy was a Norris trophy candidate just a few short seasons ago, and clearly thrives playing on the right side in a more offensive capacity with a defensively responsible partner.  
 

Atleast from my perspective, the Canucks should be doing whatever they can to create that perfect scenario for Schmidt.  Hence, my ideas for preemptively bringing in Hampus Lindholm (sign and trade to us), or even re-exploring the OEL deal.  
 

Watching the misuse of Schmidt this year was one of the most disappointing things that I’ve ever witnessed as a Canucks fan.

If Seattle takes Holtby, and we get buyouts for Loui and JV, there should be 7-8m with which to sign a shutdown defenseman + a 3C. 
Juolevi looks like hes going to develop into a defensive defenceman too. Should help make Giraffe more effective as he develops. 

Schmidt-Lindholm/Savard
Giraffe-Juolevi
Hughes-???

Makes me wonder where Rathbone fits into this picture. Maybe we deal Myers at the deadline to a contender in exchange for some picks, and Rathbone takes his place? Woo could be ready within the next couple of years as well to take on some stay at home responsibilities.

Schmidt-Lindholm
Rathbone-Woo
Hughes-Juolevi

Juolevi, Woo, and Rathbone all have a good chance of contributing more value than their salaries would suggest over the next 2 years. We're already locked into phenomenal $ value in our goaltending (a good 5-6m under value if you have Demko as the starter and DiPietro on an ELC as backup). Imagine how much $ we'll be able to spend on bolstering the top 9 after next year!!
 

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5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I love your Zadorov add Jimmy..............great size..............what  is the cost? I wonder how Woo will do in the BIGS? Does he fit in along side Rathbone?

 

I like the thought of a ..........pairings

 

Rathbone - Woo

Juolevi - Zadorov

 

Questions I wonder out loud about.

 

Can Woo play that kind of minutes?

Can Juolevi play shut down minutes?

 

It is one of the reason's I created this post, as I see Rathbone as a better overall fit defensively than Hughes, and I wonder if the offensive trade offs, are enough to have a Rathbone or a Hamilton or a Clarke, swap out for Hughes. I think they do.

 

I am all about trade offs, and "IF" a certain scenario would work better

I suspect the ceiling cost for Zadorov is a 2nd, since you could get him via offer sheet and thats all you'd have to give CHI for him in that scenario. I'd think a 3rd would get it done. 

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18 hours ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

No team is trading a 2nd rounder for the 
Chaos Giraffe, not happening in this reality or NHL 21

Chaos giraffe ahahahah I needed this

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6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

To be fair

 

I don't think the whole (-24)  - 36 can be attributed playing with Hamonic and it is a simple calculation, but the point remains, that who ever we have play with Hughes, has to be an extremely good defensive player, or we go backwards when he plays.

 

It is why, I am not as high on Hughes as some.....I still love him, but to me, he could be replaced if we can not fix the leak......................

Jan. Hamonic is a -3 on the 2020-21 season so far. So you CAN safely say that Hamonic is NOT the cause of Hughes' terrible +/-

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Posted (edited)

Acquire a Foote before expansion, or Timmins = a partner for Hughes.

 

One season of Hughes without a Tanev is all it's taken for him to be disposable to this market...

 

Find the right partner for him = principal need solved.

 

And otherwise stay the course. 

 

Small chance that the team's 1st round pick might be a succession plan in that sense, but regardless - the group does not need a "rebuild".

 

Schmidt, Juolevi, Myers, Rathbone, Edler?, Hamonic?, Woo....to round out the group.

top 10 pick...

 

Hard pass on albatrossing an inflated Dougie Hamilton to age 36.  And wadr - we don't have a Jaccob Slavvin or Mark Giordano in his prime.

Pairing a rookie there -  Jack Rathbone - is not a 'plan' I'd want to see executed.

 

 

 

Edited by oldnews
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14 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

damn Jan, you dream big :lol:

 

I wonder if we really want to hit the reset button, maybe exposing Nate Schmidt to Seattle is the first step.... hear me out. We got him for very little cost, so losing him for creating cap space is actually worthwhile. Clearing 6 mil in cap space for a 3rd rounder is something you'd take any other time.

 

If Seattle takes Nate, and honestly they'd be dumb not to, with that and a Virtanen buy out you can go get Hamilton.

 

Add to that I think we could get Zadorov from CHI for a bargain.

 

Hughes-Myers

Juolevii-Hamilton

Rathbone-Zadorov

 

I think Zad could be a good add too. If we are looking at adding Hamilton at $9m and Zadorov at $3.2m (his QO) then we really need Beagle to be on LTIR for the cap to work (or trade Roussel to fully clear his cap space). I am assuming we may need to trade Juolevi + 3rd to CHI to get Zadorov's RFA rights, so Hamonic is resigned to replace the loss of Juolevi. Roster something like this:

 

 

 

 

Schmidt SEA 1.JPG

Schmidt SEA 2.JPG

Schmidt SEA 3.JPG

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7 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I think Zad could be a good add too. If we are looking at adding Hamilton at $9m and Zadorov at $3.2m (his QO) then we really need Beagle to be on LTIR for the cap to work (or trade Roussel to fully clear his cap space). I am assuming we may need to trade Juolevi + 3rd to CHI to get Zadorov's RFA rights, so Hamonic is resigned to replace the loss of Juolevi. Roster something like this:

 

 

 

 

Schmidt SEA 1.JPG

Schmidt SEA 2.JPG

Schmidt SEA 3.JPG

tbh I don't think we need to lose OJ to gain Zadorov. We could just do it by offer sheet, CHI can't match anything next year with just 5 mil in cap space. 

 

 

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Those are some big moves, I don't think we need to really do anything massive on defence. Our future top-4 core of Hughes, Juolevi, Rathbone and a veteran like Myers is pretty solid, then rounded out with whoever we can find (eg. Hamonic, 2021 1st round pick likely to a top defenceman, UFA).

 

Hughes is arguably in his prime right now, Juolevi and Rathbone may be 2 seasons away and Myers is in/about to leave his prime. We just need a constant stream of decent defencemen which we have but more importantly than the players, they have to be playing with a strong defensive structure.

 

You could put Ekblad and Hedman in our unit right now and they'd end up -20 under Baumer. JB's got to get rid of him and find a safe defensive coach.

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