Now Official - Canucks Lottery pick from 9th position

[mll]

7 hours ago, awalk said:

Thats what I thought but Looking at Crawfords employment record it didn't seem to match that time line... did he get let go and then re hired for about a year or so? 

Gillis already started making changes to the scouting department back in 2013 and that’s when Crawford took over the amateur side too.  He was already director of pro scouting.  EliteProspects has the employment history.  

https://www.eliteprospects.com/staff/5214/eric-crawford

[N4ZZY]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:51 PM, Devron44 said:

What similarities are there to Virtanen that scares you?

I'm not sure as I'm not that familiar with Kent Johnson. But I guess maybe PTSD from taking Virtanen so high and him not working out. Same with Johnson. Can this franchise afford to miss two top ten picks not working out? 

 

[IBatch]

On 5/26/2021 at 1:22 AM, mll said:

Gillis already started making changes to the scouting department back in 2013 and that’s when Crawford took over the amateur side too.  He was already director of pro scouting.  EliteProspects has the employment history.  

https://www.eliteprospects.com/staff/5214/eric-crawford

Yes a little to little too late.   Get that it takes time to develop players so his first three years of drafting don't really count as far as evaluating talent accurately (and if the drafting is at least par for the course).  Should have been obvious by then something wasn't working.   Six years and very little to show for it.   Only traded one first (Ballard), although for sure didn't have his normal compliment of picks either - less then SJ and DET over the same time period.    Nonis had one great draft and three duds.   Nine years of dreadful drafting ... worst in the entire league.   Left a massive hole when you can't recycle a core because of clauses.    Eventually Bieksa, Hansen and Burrows waived but even that was too little to late (all were well into their decline by then).    

 

JB gets a lot of flak for re-tooling when there was literally no other option.  Fortunately he drafted very well during that phase and eventually managed to get the teams new core assembled, with a nice compliment of support players coming up.   Glad Gads and Lind have both spread their AHL wings in a way given 18 months  ago it didn't look so hot.   Rathbone, Lockwood, Woo also took steps.    Even our third rounder last draft looks promising.    We need to keep our picks - and have another great draft this year, the guys drafted the last three year plus this draft or so are going to be the ones coming when our core is in their prime (support players).  

 

Our future still depends on drafting more then anything else. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm not sure as I'm not that familiar with Kent Johnson. But I guess maybe PTSD from taking Virtanen so high and him not working out. Same with Johnson. Can this franchise afford to miss two top ten picks not working out? 

 

Look at EDM.   Yakupov.   Plus they are on the second core now with the exception of RNH who reportedly turned down a 7 x 7 offer.   So yes  absolutely.   Demko makes up for one of them - and OJ isn't a miss quite yet.   Not to mention Miller, who for sure can be recycled for something else the team needs - or at least a 22nd and a second rounder if we want to go there. 

 

Add to the quality level of the other first rounders ... EP was picked as the best 5th of the past decade.  QHs an honourable mention at 7th (second behind Scheffle).   BB as the best at his draft spot the last decade.   And Horvat the best 9th overall (thank you MG!).   Best from 2010-2020. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by IBatch

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes a little to little too late.   Get that it takes time to develop players so his first three years of drafting don't really count as far as evaluating talent accurately (and if the drafting is at least par for the course).  Should have been obvious by then something wasn't working.   Six years and very little to show for it.   Only traded one first (Ballard), although for sure didn't have his normal compliment of picks either - less then SJ and DET over the same time period.    Nonis had one great draft and three duds.   Nine years of dreadful drafting ... worst in the entire league.   Left a massive hole when you can't recycle a core because of clauses.    Eventually Bieksa, Hansen and Burrows waived but even that was too little to late (all were well into their decline by then).    

 

JB gets a lot of flak for re-tooling when there was literally no other option.  Fortunately he drafted very well during that phase and eventually managed to get the teams new core assembled, with a nice compliment of support players coming up.   Glad Gads and Lind have both spread their AHL wings in a way given 18 months  ago it didn't look so hot.   Rathbone, Lockwood, Woo also took steps.    Even our third rounder last draft looks promising.    We need to keep our picks - and have another great draft this year, the guys drafted the last three year plus this draft or so are going to be the ones coming when our core is in their prime (support players).  

 

Our future still depends on drafting more then anything else. 

Yeah, drafting and development is a more sustainable model. I do remember Gillis being upfront about a new drafting strategy that he was excited to implement: drafting older player(s) with the assumption that they are more closer to the NHL;  and with hindsight, results long term was disastrous.   My point, the players he inherited allowed him to do some experimenting and based on his actions when it comes to prospects & development - it was always an after taught cause he didn’t have the prospect pipeline (that JB has built) to fall back on; and continually using finite draft picks as currency does not lead to long term success in a cap world. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, drafting and development is a more sustainable model. I do remember Gillis being upfront about a new drafting strategy that he was excited to implement: drafting older player(s) with the assumption that they are more closer to the NHL;  and with hindsight, results long term was disastrous.   My point, the players he inherited allowed him to do some experimenting and based on his actions when it comes to prospects & development - it was always an after taught cause he didn’t have the prospect pipeline (that JB has built) to fall back on; and continually using finite draft picks as currency does not lead to long term success in a cap world. 

Yes.  He had Nonis draft, considered a top five draft all-time to work with and he did.   Get he tried to help the team because truly he did, and also did a good job at it.   The flip side was the cost was very high.   Everything MG did can be forgiven in the framework that he did everything possible to help the team win a cup - and we almost did.  

[Gollumpus]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:36 PM, CaptKirk888 said:

They are idiots. 
Cup winning captains of note

Joe Sakic 15th pick

Rod Brind’Amour 9th pick

Dave Andreychuk 16th pick

Nicklas Lidstrom 3rd rd, 11th pk!!!

Zdeno Chara. 3rd rd, 4th pk!!!

 

Ding, ding, ding, somebody gets it!!   

 

                                     regards,  G.

[ShawnAntoski]

39 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes.  He had Nonis draft, considered a top five draft all-time to work with and he did.   Get he tried to help the team because truly he did, and also did a good job at it.   The flip side was the cost was very high.   Everything MG did can be forgiven in the framework that he did everything possible to help the team win a cup - and we almost did.  

Ditto, he reminds me of the Dos Equis actor in there commercials and with hindsight, the strategies failed for the most part on the ice but some of the things off the ice - he deserves a lot of credit for.   Hope Aquaman & JB can use the knowledge from his tenure to benefit the team long term

Edited May 27, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Squamfan]

Watch the forth or fifth best odds win where the canucks were before there feel good winning streak

[Gollumpus]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:56 PM, Teemu Selänne said:

Dang, looking more and more like Brandt Clarke will be in the top-4.

 

Gotta believe one of Luke Hughes or Dylan Guenther could fall to 9th.. right? right?

I would prefer that the Canucks draft a d-man rather than a forward, and I'm figuring that Power, Edvinsson, Hughes and Clarke will be gone by the 9th pick.

 

If one of them is still available then I'm thinking that other teams have decided that there is something "wrong" with the guy, so much so that they want to go with a safer pick than risk wasting it on a guy who (in their eyes) has a good chance of being a bust, or maybe he will wind up being a bottom-6 player rather than a top-6 guy, or looks like he will take longer than average to develop into an NHL calibre player (see Hunter Shinkaruk)... or maybe he has just fallen through the cracks because some of the available forwards fit the other team's requirements more than a d-man.

 

Back to drafting a d-man, I wouldn't mind if the Canucks drafted Lambos or Ceulemans, but they seem to be placed lower than 9th - 11th on a lot of draft rankings (15th and 18 respectively on the McKenzie scale). This opens the possibility of taking a risk on trading down a few spots (no more than 3 - 4?). The Canucks would have to make an assessment of just who might still be available at the new position vs the risk/reward of maybe getting one of these two guys and additional assets. 

 

Or, if the Canucks figure they don't want a d-man, then I'd be okay with McTavish

 

                                                        regards,  G.

[ShawnAntoski]

On 5/25/2021 at 8:56 PM, Teemu Selänne said:

Dang, looking more and more like Brandt Clarke will be in the top-4.

 

Gotta believe one of Luke Hughes or Dylan Guenther could fall to 9th.. right? right?

 

 

Brandt is now a pipe dream but we got the loser point for the sake of - “winning culture”

Edited May 27, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Gollumpus]

9 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

Watch the forth or fifth best odds win where the canucks were before there feel good winning streak

Yeah, people will be dining out on that for years to come. "Waiter, I'd like an order of Woulda' to start, with some Coulda' for my main course, and some Shoulda' for desert..."

 

                                        regards,  G.

[Toyotasfan]

Isn’t the draft this year a crap shoot anyway ? A lot of leagues didn’t even get to play because of Covid. I doubt it matters where we pick.

[Gollumpus]

1 hour ago, Toyotasfan said:

Isn’t the draft this year a crap shoot anyway ? A lot of leagues didn’t even get to play because of Covid. I doubt it matters where we pick.

Tell that to those folks who are still crying over the Canucks not drafting higher from a higher starting point (with the lottery still to come).

 

I suppose it doesn't hut to draft at a higher point in the list, just so you have a greater choice available.

 

                                                         regards,  G.

[Ghostsof1915]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:25 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

We aren’t gonna win. I am not gonna get my hopes up again. Nope, no. 
 

Hope for the best, expect the worst. 

[Odjick the Warrior]

If the Canucks end up picking around 9,10,11 then I think they should look at drafting Mason McTavish looks like a good 3rd line centre that could play this year if the Canucks are desperate enough and McTavish has a great camp like what Höglander did this past camp. 

[Junkyard Dog]

3 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Hope for the best, expect the worst. 

Not in that order though.

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:43 PM, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Nobody seems to care about this draft. Other than Hughes, I just haven't paid much attention to the other draftees this year.

Unless we pick 1st or 2nd I hope the pick gets moved for an immediate upgrade to the roster. Realistically the pick won't have an impact for 2-3+ years and making the playoffs next year should be the #1 priority.

[Bertuzzipunch]

15 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

Unless we pick 1st or 2nd I hope the pick gets moved for an immediate upgrade to the roster. Realistically the pick won't have an impact for 2-3+ years and making the playoffs next year should be the #1 priority.

Think so? In 2-3 years petey will be 24 or 25. Quinn will be 23 or 24. Might be a good thing to have this top 10 pic player join the team on a entry level rookie contract at the time both petey and quinn start entering their prime.

[IBatch]

On 5/27/2021 at 2:01 PM, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, drafting and development is a more sustainable model. I do remember Gillis being upfront about a new drafting strategy that he was excited to implement: drafting older player(s) with the assumption that they are more closer to the NHL;  and with hindsight, results long term was disastrous.   My point, the players he inherited allowed him to do some experimenting and based on his actions when it comes to prospects & development - it was always an after taught cause he didn’t have the prospect pipeline (that JB has built) to fall back on; and continually using finite draft picks as currency does not lead to long term success in a cap world. 

I do wonder if MG could have fixed things, a lot of what he and Nonis did drafting aside from Nonis one great draft that is.    But it is what it is.   JB has proven he's at the very least, an above average drafter compared to his peers based on where he's drafted.   If he was average or below average which isn't very hard to do in this league, he'd be gone already.    Based on ADP or average draft position, the last five years he's drafted like he was given a 9th overall, a 3rd overall, another 3rd overall, a 4th overall and a 14th overall and that's last years draft where we didn't have a first or a second.   That's everyone in the pool.   Another way to look at it is even with JV, OJ and no picks last year we have managed a three years stretch of having a top pool despite drafting around 8-10th overall during that period.   MG drafted for six years and yes we were a top team so it's also to be expected we should be around 24-30th over that time period (on average).   JB under the same circumstances would be 16-24th.   MG was dead last.   SJ is going through the same thing.   Going to fall off a cliff soon.