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[Report] Canucks sign Travis Green to contract extension

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, bertuzzi44fan said:

Lack of talent?How did we manage that?The bottom 6 needs work but we've had worse teams still make the playoffs.

worse teams that what though?   what you project as a healthy lineup (ie what they started the season, for the most part, with?)

horrible start - and yet they'd climbed back to .500 - and striking distance - pre-outbreak - without EP in the lineup...

 

in the en, what 'we' managed - was while having an outbreak and handfuls of players injured...

 

Michaelis

Boyd

Vesey

Graovac

Hawryluk

Lind

Lockwood

Highmore

Chatfield

Rathbone

 

while already having Hughes, Hoglander, Juolevi types - young guys and rookies that made the lineup under 'normal' circumstances.

 

That's 10 of 20 skaters - who are either waiver/replacement claims, rookies, AHL depth, or youth callups.  The last 17 games - anyone with high expectations - or demanding 'playoff results' - were either dishonest or deluding themselves.

 

 

So - I'd agree with you in a sense - that the 'need' to go out and acquire more "talent" might be overstated - what the team needs is to be healthier - period - and when they are, they are probably better than some versions of the Canucks that have made the playoffs......I think the team needs  to focus on one or two additions, specifically the right partner for Hughes moving forward (I like Hamonic's game as the season progressed - he was understandably awful at the outset of the season - and then injured - and the team was in a rough spot with both Hughes - and EP - from early on....Additionally, they need to focus on what they're going to do about Sutter expiring and Beagle on LTIR and a long term question mark - they will need at least another bottom six hard minutes shutdown center....

 

What I don't think they need - is to go out searching for top 6 winger talent....not a priority imo - unless they are trying to hasten things.  They have Podkolzin on the way - and imo they have some promising young talent for their depth roles - all of Highmore, Rathbone, Lockwood imo looked solid - guys like Lind look promising, Graovac, Chatfield imo showed they are serviceable depth for the organization... Unless they are looking to move a Roussel and put Pearson on the 3rd line, I'm not sure where the top 6 upgrade would go/fit....I see no reason why all of EP, Boeser, Miller, Horvat and Hoglander shouldn't remain where they are....and I like our forward prospects (even a few of the young centers that look like potential future bottom 6Cs...)

 

Focus on Hughes' partners - and 3/4 centers - and forget about spending cap on wingers - we could stand to expire a few of those - and if that were a priority, then doing what was necessary to retain Toffoli 'would have' made sense.  The one thing I'd note there is that aside from the RHD and C already mentioned, the next 'need' is probably at LW - with Pearson, Roussel in the middle six - but I wouldn't consider that a priority at this stage (and we have plenty of good, young bottom six options at LW...)  If an upgrade there were in the works, wouldn't we have let Pearson expire?

 

That said - if they're targetting young forwards as upgrades - and looking to take advantage of an expansion protection spot - that makes sense to me - but shopping in the UFA market - I'm not so sure....It's hard to project demand/prices in the coming UFA markets though - so I suppose I shouldn't underplay those out of hand - it's possible there will be some real opportunities accross the board with the e.d. looming. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, oldnews said:

It's typical of CDC = ignorant one-liners that refer to a minor aspect of the game - as 'the system'.

As you point out, it's one strategy of a zone entry - teams stand up at the blueline, you dump and chase, teams give some space, controlled entry - in general - with a mix so that you don't become too predictable. Dump and change has nothing to do with zone entry systems.

Forechecking systems, neutral zone defensive systems, defending against zone entries, defensive zone systems, breakout/zone exits, and on and on -the game is far more complicated, far more systems than these one-liner champions realize.  Reality is that year after year, some of them have literally no interest in learning a thing, teaching themselves a thing - they'd prefer to run pissy one-liners, ad infinitum, as if they know a whiff of what Green does, while not having a clue what they're watching.

It was the same thing with one of the best coaches we ever had - AV - the one liner champions summed him up as "defend the 0-0 tie" - an utterly absurd reduction for a coach who's team was a top scoring club in the NHL, gave up the fewest goals in the NHL, and had top two special teams - both pp and pk....The game is a two way game, period - and he gamed it - but, but 'defend the 0-0 tie'.    The takes on Green are equally mindless - one-liner noise - twitter-worthy.

 

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Yeah...the old "AV only knows how to coach defense" ranks right up there with "the Sedin sisters" among the all time dumb Canuck fan tropes...and anyone who has expressed either would benefit from a protracted session of banging their foreheads against a concrete wall IMHO...

but ... but ... the popgun offense!

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The Nucks coaching is laughable.

This team cannot make more than two passes without turning over the puck. They can win faceoffs in the defensive zone but have no idea how to exit the zone with the puck thereafter.

The top PP unit is often given an entire two minutes of PP time just to enter the zone in vain.

Petey and Hughes game deteriorate this season. Petey now loves to stop the puck to slow down the play and Hughes always dangerously carries the puck in his own zone when he's the last man back. A hit or check on either of them is enough to create turnovers. Hughes is not a good point man in PP as advertised. His passes to Petey, Boeser or Miller are mostly into the skates and too hard for one timers. So even if they can set up, all you see is their endless passing to each other until turning over the puck.

JB spent so much money and many lengthy contracts to build one of the most expensive and yet among the worst 3rd and 4th lines in the league. Most of these guys only know dump in and chase.

What was JB thinking when he gave up Madden together with a 2nd round pick to get Toffoli play just 10+ games in Vancouver? The lengthy garbage contracts he handed out will still be killing the Canucks next season.

Just wonder why JB, Green, and all the assistant coaches with the exception of Clark deserve to stay. Given 7 more years and these guys won't build any contenders in Vancouver.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, oldnews said:

It's typical of CDC = ignorant one-liners that refer to a minor aspect of the game - as 'the system'.

As you point out, it's one strategy of a zone entry - teams stand up at the blueline, you dump and chase, teams give some space, controlled entry - in general - with a mix so that you don't become too predictable. Dump and change has nothing to do with zone entry systems.

Forechecking systems, neutral zone defensive systems, defending against zone entries, defensive zone systems, breakout/zone exits, and on and on -the game is far more complicated, far more systems than these one-liner champions realize.  Reality is that year after year, some of them have literally no interest in learning a thing, teaching themselves a thing - they'd prefer to run pissy one-liners, ad infinitum, as if they know a whiff of what Green does, while not having a clue what they're watching.

It was the same thing with one of the best coaches we ever had - AV - the one liner champions summed him up as "defend the 0-0 tie" - an utterly absurd reduction for a coach who's team was a top scoring club in the NHL, gave up the fewest goals in the NHL, and had top two special teams - both pp and pk....The game is a two way game, period - and he gamed it - but, but 'defend the 0-0 tie'.    The takes on Green are equally mindless - one-liner noise - twitter-worthy.

You're taking the piss on semantics though. Of course there's multiple systems that generate how a team plays, but at the end of the day pretending the team doesn't employ the dump and chase is an absurd thing to say. Rarely do we play the carry against the opposition. 

 

Yeah, there's more to it than that. But people are arguing that top teams don't deploy that strategy to zone entries as often as we do. Most teams have a lot more variance based on the players available on the team. Most teams have a lot more adaptability depending on who they face. 

 

Vancouver is coached in an extremely predictable way top to bottom and it's one of the reasons why this team ends up where it does. And guess how this team prefers to enter the zone 9/10 times (I'd argue even more than that)? 

 

You guessed it. The dump and chase! 

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6 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

You're taking the piss on semantics though. Of course there's multiple systems that generate how a team plays, but at the end of the day pretending the team doesn't employ the dump and chase is an absurd thing to say.

You're whiffing on the point. 

Of course the team dump and chases - every team in the NHL does - it's a situational thing/context with a lot of variables, and therefore variation on a constant basis in terms of what the particular players on the ice do  - and a whole range of reasons why/when you attempt a controlled entry, a whole range of reasons why/.when you dump and chase.

No one said the team "doesn't employ dump and chase".

The point is that a simplistic, reductive one-liner....'er, our system of dump and chase suckz' - is the "absurd thing to say".

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Just now, oldnews said:

You're whiffing on the point. 

Of course the team dump and chases - every team in the NHL does - it's a situational thing/context with a lot of variables, and therefore variation on a constant basis in terms of what the particular players on the ice do  - and a whole range of reasons why/when you attempt a controlled entry, a whole range of reasons why/.when you dump and chase.

No one said the team "doesn't employ dump and chase".

The point is that a simplistic, reductive one-liner....'er, our system of dump and chase suckz' - is the "absurd thing to say".

Yeah but that's the problem. Often times when we're seeing a team stack zero defense at the line we still dump it in, which is why the team struggles on entries. 

 

A good team will take that inch if given majority of the time. Our team rarely does. This team can't even form an NHL level odd-man rush formation to save their lives. Most of the time they play a 3 on 2 in a straight line offensively (something you're coached out of when you're ten years old). 

 

The amount of times this team opts to dump it in rather than carry it in when their defense has backed off is startlingly bad. Or even worse, dump it in and have all 3 forwards go for a change. 

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1 minute ago, MikeyD said:

Yeah but that's the problem. Often times when we're seeing a team stack zero defense at the line we still dump it in, which is why the team struggles on entries.

that anecdotal - a storyline - that I don't buy.  If you can get some statistics on the team's zone entries - percentages of variants and success/failure rates of each, then I think there'd be some grounding for discussion there - eye-test stories I don't care to argue.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/21/2021 at 5:40 PM, bertuzzi44fan said:

SERIOUSLY?!Guy is a hack if he can't even fire his assistants.

This post reeks of ignorance!! He's clearly a good coach and has the respect of the players and has constantly improved. He's respected around the league and had teams wanting to interview him if he didn't re-sign. You people think you know more than a professional coach (in the NHL)...I'd love to see some of you thrown in there to coach them...you probably wouldn't even find your way to the bench! 

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, oldnews said:

that anecdotal - a storyline - that I don't buy.  If you can get some statistics on the team's zone entries - percentages of variants and success/failure rates of each, then I think there'd be some grounding for discussion there - eye-test stories I don't care to argue.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/corey.sznajder#!/vizhome/testthisisatest/PlayingStyles

 

You have to scroll over to team zone entries. One of the bottom teams in the league in carry %. 

 

Not to mention were even below average for creating chances off the forecheck, and for a team that doesn't carry the puck in, that's gonna hurt your team significantly. 

 

So again, this backs up claims from some of those "anti-Green" posters who talk about how the team plays the dump and chase and doesn't even employ an effective forecheck. 

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Disappointed. 

If you all don't like greens support coaches then why would anyone be happy with green if they don't like the other coaches?

He's responsible for them and there systems.  

They should all go.  

I'm not convinced Green is anything but average, which isn't good enough . 

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11 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

This might be a stupid question, but can seem to find how many years he got through skimming? Anyone know off the top of their head?

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2 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

Disappointed. 

If you all don't like greens support coaches then why would anyone be happy with green if they don't like the other coaches?

He's responsible for them and there systems.  

They should all go.  

I'm not convinced Green is anything but average, which isn't good enough . 

luckily you being convinced isn't part of the criteria for anybody 

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On 5/22/2021 at 1:35 PM, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, we will find out what aggressive means this offseason - seems to mean more roster tweaking and nothing with any strategy adjustments if the same staff is brought back (?).  How about Schmidt under Vegas’ compared to his play under Greens’/Baumers’ system (perhaps his d partner will also need to be considered as well when evaluating his first season with the Canucks).

For sure the roster matters too (and his partner, Theodore).   That five man box though ... it's something isn't it.   Schmidt is fine.   We need more like him, but we simply have to have a few home grown D's come out of the woodwork or trade a blue chip core forward for one at some point (similar aged).    I'm not too sure how things will go next year, feel a full season of EP would do the team wonders, same with other core players taking another step, but not too bullish on our D being that much better yet.   

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

For sure the roster matters too (and his partner, Theodore).   That five man box though ... it's something isn't it.   Schmidt is fine.   We need more like him, but we simply have to have a few home grown D's come out of the woodwork or trade a blue chip core forward for one at some point (similar aged).    I'm not too sure how things will go next year, feel a full season of EP would do the team wonders, same with other core players taking another step, but not too bullish on our D being that much better yet.   

Yeah, will have to wait and see, if more of the same ?

 

Looks like more roster tinkering are coming and hope it will be players that will be compatible in his system cause the system is not changing.  Just not optimistic about Greens system - especially, in the playoff were the game is more intense.  Hope I am wrong with this planned spending spree due mainly to the cores development regardless of Green.

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/21/2021 at 10:09 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Like how coach Q is getting the best out of Gustav Forsling?  He’s a high quality head coach period imho.

I share this opinion.  Quinville would be a great coach, too bad he's not available anytime soon.

 

I'm still holding out hope Trotz will end up here in a couple years hahaha.

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