Reflections from the newest developments

[tas]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The only one he didnt say was being added to help offensively was Beagle. Both the others he specifically said they would be able to help the team offensively.

 

Benning on Roussel

Antoine is a 1) competitor with a skill set that benefits our team,” said Benning. “He’s a 2) physical player, 3) hard-to-play against with the 4) ability to contribute offensively. We’re pleased to welcome Antoine as a member of the Vancouver Canucks.”

 

Benning on Schaller

“Tim 1) adds size to our forward group and 2) can play throughout our line-up,” said Benning. “He’s 3) responsible defensively and 4) last year showed he can make regular offensive contributions as well. We’re excited to welcome him to the Vancouver Canucks.”

 

Benning on Sutter

"I'm comfortable with [the term]," Vancouver general manager Jim Benning told The Province on Tuesday. "He's a 1) solid two-way player and throughout his career he's 2) been pretty resilient and hasn't had a lot of injuries. He 3) has speed to get in on the forecheck to 3.5) get turnovers and fight for loose pucks and get them to the net."

4th trait mentioned, afterthought.

 

4th trait mentioned, afterthought plus it came with a qualifier.

 

didn't mention offense specifically at all for sutter. 

 

not only would I say all of those are very accurate, but not one of them comes close to suggesting that the player "was being added to help offensively" as you just terribly inferred. 

[-DLC-]

37 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

 

A lot of his supporters do change their narrative in order to justify whatever short sighted move he makes.

 

 

 

 

Can you give examples?

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, debluvscanucks said:

Can you give examples?

Sure, read every Benning thread.

[-DLC-]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

Sure, read every Benning thread.

No....the ones you're referring to.  I'd like you to be more specific.

[wallstreetamigo]

I gotta admit, i respect this new "if you dont go dig up specific quotes what you say cant possibly be true" approach by Benning apologists as very creative.

 

Here's the thing though. I operate in a world where my time is actually valuable. I dont mind sendkng it on people who are willing to debate things. But i refuse to waste it on people who wont.

 

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

No....the ones you're referring to.  I'd like you to be more specific.

There are too many to list deb. 

 

Basically go find anyone who suggests signing Beagle, Roussel, Pearson, etc were great moves while simultaneously saying that Toffoli leaving was the right move. 

 

[tas]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I gotta admit, i respect this new "if you dont go dig up specific quotes what you say cant possibly be true" approach by Benning apologists as very creative.

 

Here's the thing though. I operate in a world where my time is actually valuable. I dont mind sendkng it on people who are willing to debate things. But i refuse to waste it on people who wont.

 

 

 

if I thought you could or would dig up the quotes I wouldn't bother asking. the whole point is that you can't and won't put your money where your mouth is. your argument is debunked instantly. 

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I gotta admit, i respect this new "if you dont go dig up specific quotes what you say cant possibly be true" approach by Benning apologists as very creative.

 

Here's the thing though. I operate in a world where my time is actually valuable. I dont mind sendkng it on people who are willing to debate things. But i refuse to waste it on people who wont.

 

 

 

So smug.  I asked a question but your inability to answer speaks volumes.

 

Hindsight is something GM's don't have the luxury of.  Most (all?) teams have moves that didn't quite pan out as planned.  It's why the Oilers, with all their #1 picks, still struggle to get there.  Dealing with human beings mean sometimes they don't perform as well as they're projected to.   

 

 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

7 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

..............Uncle Jim asleep at the wheel again - only could focus on one thing - signing his boy Lazy Jake, who he didn't want to admit defeat on.

 

Good post BTW !!!!

He's definitely asleep half the time, or just plain out lost not sure which one yet. That's probably true to an extent, but there was an insider rumor a couple years ago they almost moved Virtanen at the trade deadline but it never amounted to anything. Benning saw a glimpse of what he drafted last year in the playoffs, and hoped it would continue, but the situation with the coach and Jake is never going to fix itself, Green should of been gone half way through the season this year, but he's still here and Virtanen just can't be here, the two don't work.

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

There are too many to list deb. 

 

Basically go find anyone who suggests signing Beagle, Roussel, Pearson, etc were great moves while simultaneously saying that Toffoli leaving was the right move. 

 

I don’t see many if any people at all saying Toffoli leaving was the right move? 

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 5/22/2021 at 11:49 AM, tas said:

at the end of the day, being a critical fan is like being a backseat driver who's never had a driver's licence or owned a car. not only are you bitching about and judging and criticising someone for trying their best to do something nice for you, you're doing it from a place of complete ignorance. 

Great metaphor.

When I look at teams like the Sabres, Devils, Oilers among others their perpetual losing all has one thing in common, multiple changes in management. The Sabres have sunk to an all-time low and multiple coaches and GMs have done nothing to fix it. This is a team that has had the #1, 2, and 3 since 2015 and are about to enter a brand new rebuild and haven't sniffed the playoffs in a decade.

The pro-firing crowd seems to assume a new guy will come in and suddenly the team will flourish, but there is a better chance he blows things up and we spend another 5 years sucking. Or they do very little and ride of Bennings blueprint much like Gillis did.

Once Linden was fired I think Benning has had way more hits than misses and even tho this season was a mess Benning put the longterm of the team ahead of himself by letting Marky, Tanev and TT walk. Benning also deserves a longer leash simply because of the pandemic. His last 2 offseason's he's added great pieces without anchoring the future. It took balls to let Marky and Tanev walk but longterm those were the right choices. As fans there will always be divide but it seems the anti-management crowd refuses to ever give him any credit, case in point his drafting and the uproar when Judd left. They say it was all Judd yet Jim had final say and it's been proven that he left because he felt he wasn't being listened to so he left. If Judd was responsible for all the great picks, why was he upset that he wasn't listened to? The whole "Judd thing" was simply a toxic crowd using anything to prove their point.

[-DLC-]

16 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I don’t see many if any people at all saying Toffoli leaving was the right move? 

Personally, I was choked.  

 

But people react like this is the only team that misses out on players or has hits and misses.  Same ones who cried when we drafted Petey because they were SOLD on Vilardi and Glass.

 

I don't love everything JB does....but I do recognize how tough it is to get exactly what you want for what you want.  Sometimes you overpay depending on needs and "the market".  You don't always know how the chemistry will be when you add players in to a mix and that matters too.  When GM's recruit a player they hope that at least some of their past reflects in their future play but it doesn't always happen that way.  JB expected more out of Loui.  Sometimes it's a bust.

 

I was ok either way...if JB was gone or not.  But he's here so that's the hand we've been dealt.  I really was hoping it would put an end to the never ending criticism.  I'd LOVE for us to look forward rather than continue to dwell on (cry over?) the past.  

 

The negativity is SO draining after awhile.  It's ok to discuss dissatisfaction...but there does eventually come a time to move on rather than rehash the same stuff, over and over. 

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Personally, I was choked.  

 

But people react like this is the only team that misses out on players or has hits and misses.  Same ones who cried when we drafted Petey because they were SOLD on Vilardi and Glass.

 

I don't love everything JB does....but I do recognize how tough it is to get exactly what you want for what you want.  Sometimes you overpay depending on needs and "the market".  You don't always know how the chemistry will be when you add players in to a mix and that matters too.  When GM's recruit a player they hope that at least some of their past reflects in their future play but it doesn't always happen that way.  JB expected more out of Loui.  Sometimes it's a bust.

 

I was ok either way...if JB was gone or not.  But he's here so that's the hand we've been dealt.  I really was hoping it would put an end to the never ending criticism.  I'd LOVE for us to look forward rather than continue to dwell on (cry over?) the past.  

 

The negativity is SO draining after awhile.  It's ok to discuss dissatisfaction...but there does eventually come a time to move on rather than rehash the same stuff, over and over. 

I’d love to see these quotes of Toffoli leaving being the right thing. That is one hell of a spin. 

[wallstreetamigo]

21 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I don’t see many if any people at all saying Toffoli leaving was the right move? 

You arent looking very hard then.

 

There are lots of people justifying it as the right move for various reasons.

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I’d love to see these quotes of Toffoli leaving being the right thing. That is one hell of a spin. 

Read any Benning thread bud. 

 

The one i liked most was the guy who simultaneously said:

 

- its good that we let go of declining Toffoli because it makes our team better

 

And

 

- Toffoli only scored 28 goals because a lot of them came against the Canucks who were crap. Had he played for us he would have got 18-20 goals.

 

Whew! Crisis averted!

 

Man i wish i knew where that epic exchange was located.

[Alflives]

55 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I am disappointed in Benning. I just find people who cant be objective sad really.

So objectively, what are the things Benning has done you liked?  Drafting?  

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Read any Benning thread bud. 

 

The one i liked most was the guy who simultaneously said:

 

- its good that we let go of declining Toffoli because it makes our team better

 

And

 

- Toffoli only scored 28 goals because a lot of them came against the Canucks who were crap. Had he played for us he would have got 18-20 goals.

 

Whew! Crisis averted!

 

Man i wish i knew where that epic exchange was located.

So we base everything on a few comments? Good to know you only need one brush for the painting. 

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

So we base everything on a few comments? Good to know you only need one brush for the painting. 

A lot of people post justifications for it or outright argue actual facts as if they are fake news like Toffoli himself saying he never got a contract offer.

 

It is funny how anyone who criticizes Benning is painted with the sane brush by people like you though and somehow its right in that scenario.

 

Extreme supporters and extreme haters are equally bad in my book. People who can admit some good when arguing against the bad and vice versa are conversations I appreciate having.

[wallstreetamigo]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So objectively, what are the things Benning has done you liked?  Drafting?  

I like some of his drafting for sure. Hard to argue with it overall. A few big misses and in some ways dislike him giving up on some of those players too early but ya i like his drafting overall.

 

I like his RFA signings for the most part. I like some of his trades. Miller and Schmidt were both pretty good. Would have liked the Toffoli one if he didnt let him walk. 

 

Its not all bad to me. His UFA signings are terrible and some of his trades. 

[4petesake]

5 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

So we base everything on a few comments? Good to know you only need one brush for the painting. 

I seem to recall one poster ripping JB for losing Toffoli who was acquired for the playoff push while simultaneously ripping him for not trading Tanev and Markstrom for assets during the same push. That would indeed be mismanagement- trading for Toff and getting rid of one of your top d and #1 goalie for the same playoffs. But hey, the Benning bros won’t be reasonable and always spin things to support their narrative.