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I will criticize Benning and the coaching staff until they prove me wrong.

 

I can do that while still being a real fan of the team and while hoping for them to be successful.

 

None of those things are mutually exclusive.

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1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I will criticize Benning and the coaching staff until they prove me wrong.

 

I can do that while still being a real fan of the team and while hoping for them to be successful.

 

None of those things are mutually exclusive.

what do you have to gain by being a critic instead of a fan?

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Will be interesting to see how this team starts out of the gate next year, fans will be in the building and if we start poorly they will be chanting to fire someone...for those saying the Billionaire owner doesn't listen, did Gillis not get fired in large part to the outcry of fans at games and calling in to the radio saying get rid of him?

 

Either way, with a 2 year deal for Green he could still  get canned next year if the team falters. 1 of him or JB will get fired next year if we continue to suck, something has to give and with fans going back to games the displeasure will be heard

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15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Francesco has been a fan and season ticket holder since he was a kid.  He lived across the street from Pacific Coliseum and went to all the games.  He is a bigger fan and wants to win a Cup more than any one of us.  If he felt he needed to fire everyone he would.  He's not going to listen to any of us and get pressured because some idiot flew a plane over the City with a "Fire Benning" banner on it.

Didn't realize we lived in the same neighborhood. I used to live 5 mins away from the Pacific Collesium 

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5 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

So, anyone that disagrees with you is not a fan? I disagree and guarantee I’ve shed more blood, sweat and beer cheering for the Canucks than you ever will and that’s why I voice my opinion and I think FA is screwing up. I may be wrong, I may be right, doesn’t matter, this is a forum and I have every right to post what I feel without being attacked.

You can post whatever you want, I don't care.  When did I attack you personally?  And when did I say anyone that disagrees with me is not a fan?  And how do you know you've shed more blood, sweat and beer cheering for the Canucks then me when you don't even know me?  The only thing I will give you is you've probably shed alot more beer than me cheering on this team because I don't drink, so you have that one on me for sure.

 

At the end of the day anyone can disagree with anything, but the same daily rants by some posters is quite nauseating.  You are not one of those posters, you are actually one of the good posters and quite funny so not sure why you are attacking me personally.

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5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

We have Benning, Weisbrod, Green, Baumgartner, and Brown for a minimum of 2 more years.

 

So complaining about them being here is a lost argument. 

 

Criticizing the job they do is - and should be - fair game.

 

People have forgotten how to disagree without being a douche about it.

I agree with all of this.

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

Results have to be taken in context with the state of the organization.  Anyone who thought a rebuild of the team, as gillis left it, would take less than a decade was kidding themselves. 

I get it - ultimately comes down to the person(s) and the application of the rebuilding process and so far, hindsight or the yearly results had be underwhelming.  Ofcourse, with hindsight it is easy to criticize the period and with some context it the same issue can also defended but the yearly results has no bias - just results; hopefully, moving forward the decision makers can continue to evolve and learn from the past (?).  

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

We have Benning, Weisbrod, Green, Baumgartner, and Brown for a minimum of 2 more years.

 

So complaining about them being here is a lost argument. 

 

Criticizing the job they do is - and should be - fair game.

 

People have forgotten how to disagree without being a douche about it.

Good take - especially, the last statement.  Ditto, hopefully the staff will continue to evolve; and based on the press conference with JB & Green - the issue is the lack of talent (how about, Schmidt who was a different player in Vegas vs in Greens’/Baumers’ system). 
 

If there is a group of fans, ownership would listen to: it would be the season ticket holder and based on the staff re-signings, it seems there is (enough) season ticket holders & players that still support the staff.  
 

Anyways, at the very least - this forum will not be boring (?).

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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23 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Good take - especially, the last statement.  Ditto, hopefully the staff will continue to evolve; and based on the press conference with JB & Green - the issue is the lack of talent (how about, Schmidt who was a different player in Vegas vs in Greens’/Baumers’ system). 
 

If there is a group of fans, ownership would listen to: it would be the season ticket holder and based on the staff re-signings, it seems the (enough) season ticket holders & players still support the staff.  
 

Anyways, at the very least - this forum will not be boring (?).

I don't think the people who claim to be season ticket holders are representative of all, even they're the most vocal. A team gets a lot of money through advertisement, sponsorships etc. I think Aquilini consulted with the players and they obviously gave the green light for Green to be re-signed.

 

This makes me reflect on my past opinions of him. Also, Benning is still in good favour with the owner. The stability of the business is what I appreciate. There is some evidence that the people do like Benning as an employee, so that's why his job is kept.

 

A leader makes a decision, and doesn't get pressured by others into going with what the mass wants. It's not a democracy when it's a business to an extent.

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Going out of one's way to create an echo chamber so fans with differing opinions feel like they'll be chased out or ganged up on if they express them is pretty toxic imho. Much moreso than someone saying they have issues with ownership or management.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Lots of assumptions in here.

 

Again, you dont know what is actually said behind the scenes. You know only what you are told by people with a strong self preservation motive to spin things in the best possible light. Those are very different things. 

 

The defensive system on this team is garbage. The results dont lie and neither does the eye test. Its still actually about the results on the ice, not whether everyone wants to have a beer with the coach. Its not mens league.

 

Accountability starts with accepting and owning your mistakes, and then fixing them. I heard nothing from Benning or Green suggesting they do or will. 

 

They actually missed a pretty big opportunity to win back a lot of nervous fans today. 

 

All I really wanted to hear from them is they know that they have made big missteps and as such things like the coaching systems will be changed to improve. And past signing practices will be reviewed to improve that. Those kinds of things and a bit of humility would have gone a long way to build confidence.

 

Bith Benning and Green are disliked by many simply because neither sees and admits anything they do is ever a mistake. If you dont see something as a mistske you can never actually fix it.

Speaking of assumptions, are you not assuming that JB and TG are in fact completely oblivious to any blunders/mistakes/missteps that they might be guilty of? Are you somehow privy to all their private discussions? Conversations that take place with the management team? With the owners? Must be nice to have that kind of insight into the souls of those two men.

 

You paint both with a very dismissive brush that goes beyond describing their incompetence (which is your right and you do it calmly and with articulation) but make them out to be uninformed, ignorant and without honour. I don’t believe it to be a fair take but that’s just me.

 

And it surprises me that you are still searching for a mea culpa because, from the volumes you have offered on this subject, JB and TG are already dead and buried in your mind. Don’t tell me  that a little bit of hope hides in your heart.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

Does that mean Aquilini was a bad owner when he fired Gillis the day after the fans chanted fire gillis?

Honestly I rather have Gillis than Benning. Benning did draft well but he was also in position to draft well by getting high picks. Gillis drafted Horvat at 9 and I would think if Gillis had to rebuild, he would be more successful than Benning because he would still get the talents by picking high but would surround them by actual talent through great trades and free agency signings. Gillis was very efficient in using the cap, maximizing the cap space to add valuable key players. I just dont see Benning ever creating a contender even if he drafts well because he is bad at negeotiaing, over values players that dont have high skills and overpays in trades or focuses on acquiring players that either dont fit the team or they are at the tail end of careers. Numerous examples of this like Eriksson, Gudbranson, Myers, Roussel etc. His biggest flaws are loyalty to his players to a fault like Virtanen. We could have traded Virtanen in the off season for someone like Benett or even a 2nd round pick but now we would be lucky to even get a draft pick for him.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

I don't think the people who claim to be season ticket holders are representative of all, even they're the most vocal. A team gets a lot of money through advertisement, sponsorships etc. I think Aquilini consulted with the players and they obviously gave the green light for Green to be re-signed.

 

This makes me reflect on my past opinions of him. Also, Benning is still in good favour with the owner. The stability of the business is what I appreciate. There is some evidence that the people do like Benning as an employee, so that's why his job is kept.

 

A leader makes a decision, and doesn't get pressured by others into going with what the mass wants. It's not a democracy when it's a business to an extent.

I get it but we (can only assume) what factors Aquaman are using to make his decisions; ofcourse, some leaders will do what they think is right regardless of any backlash and others will be influenced by advisors or etc...  Guess, we will see what they mean by - aggressive in the off season (hopefully it is a balanced approach of not mortgaging the future too much for the present). As a longtime fan, it seems we had been stuck as a bottom to middle of the pack pretender for awhile now but the young core provides some hope of a potential cup contender.

Edited by ShawnAntoski
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51 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Going out of one's way to create an echo chamber so fans with differing opinions feel like they'll be chased out or ganged up on if they express them is pretty toxic imho. Much moreso than someone saying they have issues with ownership or management.

 

 

 

 

It depends on how that expression is presented.  If it's well thought out discussion, sure.

 

Sometimes it's an echo chamber in its own right when the same pictures and one liners are spammed, over and over.  Get creative, put some effort in and it's better received.

 

Booing takes away from the team, as they'll absorb that negativity.  The players deserve fans in the stands to support them in my view.  It's ok to voice discontent but the mob mentality generates momentum and takes on a life of its own at times. 

 

Stalking people in grocery stores is pretty...toxic.  

 

It's been beaten to death though...both sides are "right" in that opinions are only that.   There is no "moreso" in this....there are extremes on both sides and it's about finding a common ground and agreeing to disagree.  

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Posted (edited)

A couple of things about the Gillis team.  For 2 years running, they were the best team in hockey.  They won back to back Presidents Trophies in 2010-11, 2011-12.  For the first time in the history of the Canucks, they were favorites going into the playoffs.  

 

All things equal, you would think that a high level of performance could be maintained for a number of years and that a team this good could have had several serious runs that the Stanley Cup.  This is what ownership expected.

 

The core of the team, and face it, the Sedins were it, was 31 years old in 2012.  They had 2 #1 goalies and one would have to move on and they ended up losing both.  I think that Gillis saw the best move for the team to be a rebuild in 2013.  There was an older group and he thought that renewal was the way to go when he traded away Schneider (27) to draft Bo Horvat.  

 

I think that this was the right time to rebuild especially considering the prospect pool at the time.  Ownership had other ideas.  After 2011 can you blame them?  I think this was a major difference in opinion between  the Aquilini's and Gillis and the biggest reason why Gillis was fired.  I don't believe it was the chanting fans.

 

When Linden and Benning were hired, the goal was to turn the team around.  It wasn't to rebuild.  It was to retool around the core of the team which was essentially the Sedins.  At the same time, there was to be an emphasis on drafting well and building up the prospect pool.  Linden refused to say the word "rebuild" because they weren't rebuilding.

 

We didn't hear the word rebuild until 2017 when Burrows and Hansen were traded.  So while some of the future core had already been drafted (Horvat 2013, Boeser 2015) the focus really needed to shift to the new and developing core.  They were no longer riding on the talents of the Sedins, who were now more mentors than players to follow and they retired in 2018 after no longer topping the scoring sheet on the Canucks.

 

As for Green, he became the coach in 2017 as the rebuild truly began.  His tenure has been marked by some difficult years as the Canucks let go of the of the old team and Benning has shifted focus to try and support the up and coming core.  The thing was, they weren't mature enough to carry the weight of the teams performance yet.  I think that it's unfair to measure Green's performance by wins and losses to this point because until 2019-20 the team just didn't have the assets to win a lot.  In the bubble playoffs 2019-20, the team was finally starting to look like something.  

 

2020-21 saw a perfect storm against the Canucks.  I think that the essence of the team that showed so well in the playoff bubble is still there and would be surprised if there isn't a substantial rebound.  Benning has said that he's going to be aggressive this off season.  I think that pieces definitely need to be added and some need to be subtracted but I hope he doesn't do too much.   I think that when Benning has made his mistakes, and there have been plenty, it is because he tries to do too much at once.

 

 

Edited by Crabcakes
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