Reflections from the newest developments

[Provost]

1 minute ago, tas said:

and yet, still, what is there to gain by tearing down your own team? how does harping on missteps and flaws and mistakes and poor decisions help anybody? have you ever been part of a team? if so, did/do you rag on teammates or anyone else involved if they make what you perceive to be mistakes?

... thanks for proving my point about "blind loyalty"

[tas]

Just now, BENN said:

He is a top top-class coach though,with a lot of NHL experience.

I've thought he was overrated for a decade. keep that meathead away from here. 

[ShawnAntoski]

9 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

So, anyone that disagrees with you is not a fan? I disagree and guarantee I’ve shed more blood, sweat and beer cheering for the Canucks than you ever will and that’s why I voice my opinion and I think FA is screwing up. I may be wrong, I may be right, doesn’t matter, this is a forum and I have every right to post what I feel without being attacked.

Good take, seems to be case with the fan based - supportive types & misc.  Ofcourse, this is just a forum (hopefully not an echo chamber) and most are here to vent & show there support for the team we ALL SUPPORT - although, once in awhile the cockroaches/trolls will come out to join the party.  

[tas]

Just now, Provost said:

... thanks for proving my point about "blind loyalty"

haha, you don't get it. but then, people like you never do. 

[-DLC-]

27 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Thats actually not what I am saying though. 

 

My post was about what they project publicly, not what they do or say privately because, like you said, I dont know that. I am sure they know the mistakes they have made.

 

If you listen to Benning especially when someone asks him about a mistake or a negative situation, he typically does a couple of things. First, he dismisses the possibility anything is wrong right away. Then he usually goes into a usually long, convoluted answer that does not actually pertain to the question. When he was on 650 yesterday, listen to his frustrated response to the question about players being unhappy about communication. He directly refutes what his own players, especially JT Miller, said publicly. 

 

There are easy ways to answer that question without trying to completely dismiss it that would probably help him calm down nervous fans a bit and help himself gain some credibility with them in the process.

 

He could have said, "We know that in some ways players felt left out of the process. To me, that is something we are going to improve on going forward. I feel that communication is good throughout the organization overall but there is always room to improve and thats what we are going to do."

 

An answer like that essentially disarms the narrative right away. So it accompmishes what Benning tries to do with his rambling answers while projecting confidence that he actually has a handle on things.

 

How you present things matters a lot. Benning is appallingly bad at public speaking and answering questions. That much is pretty obvious. But there are ways to help himself. He does himself no favors by getting defensive and whitewashing legitimate issues. Combined with his actions of not actually doing things differently, I can understand why people dont trust him.

 

Benning and Green are not dead to me. They are our GM and coach for the foreseeable future. I want them to be successful and hope that they do learn from their mistakes.

 

The trouble is, if you bring back everyone, you are saying right up front that everything is fine and there is nothing that can be improved on with coaching. I think given the results thats a risky message. Combined with saying you as GM are going to be aggressive doing the same things you have done in the past (mid level ufa signings, using vets to plug holes, etc.) it creates a lot of uncertainty given how those moves have worked out previously.

 

Nothing in what either of them said yesterday gave any indication much of substance will be done differently. I hope I am wrong.

He explained what happened....he talks to Bo regularly and had just done so.  Two team doctors and a PA and NHL doctor were all working behind the scenes, but were  still going on "COVID" (10 day) protocol as the variant had not yet surfaced.  They didn't know what they were dealing with until...they did.  The variant was something new and it changed the goalposts.   Clearly, it was a fast burning fire.

 

He also explained, for those who do listen, that the team was practicing when symptoms started to really hit the team (excruciating migraines, etc.) and things happened fairly fast and furious. This was presented to the league (doctor) when they came out with the schedule that was clearly not going to be manageable.  It was revised and Miller speaking out wasn't because the team wasn't doing anything, he spoke out because...he's Miller.  But things were in the works as doctors were monitoring what was happening.  Just because that isn't disclosed doesn't mean...it isn't happening.  Come on, these are the team's assets.  Because a team isn't running to the media to disclose what's transpiring, doesn't mean they're not handling it.  They were...busy?  Consulting WITH the experts and trying to determine what they were dealing with and what to do about it.  

 

Bottom line is, if the team isn't happy with management they're big boys and will address that.  JT Miller does NOT need anyone going to bat for him...I'm pretty confident about that.  He'll handle his stuff.

 

It got translated to "the team isn't happy with management" when Miller spoke but likely was more just a matter of Miller being Miller.  Wearing his heart on his sleeve.   He was speaking out against the schedule but that doesn't mean others weren't also doing so.  It seems they were, as it was changed.

 

I'm not sure you know how PR works....GM's/coaches/etc. often shut down a bunch of screaming as it's happening out in the masses - they don't really give explanations that will just be twisted and contorted anyhow.  They're trying to move forward, not stay stuck.  He answers in a fairly direct, honest way from what I see and hear.

[TheRussianRocket1994]

31 minutes ago, tas said:

there's middle ground between blind loyalty to a gm and being a constant critic of the group. 

 

I've found a comfortable niche where I trust that the highly paid professionals who know infinitely more about running a hockey team than the hundreds of us on this forum combined are doing everything in their power to provide us with a winning team. as much as we care, they care even more. this is their livelihoods, their lives. there will be missteps, as there always are, but the intentions are always correct. based on that. I choose to support the club, knowing that they're doing the best they can to make my dreams come true 

 

I feel like it's a more positive alternative to the demanding and entitlement that is rampant in this fanbase. "I don't accept failure!" "anything less than a stanley cup isn't success!" well f*** you man, you apply for the job and do it yourself, then.

 

watch and support the team with hope, not expectation. 

I've disagreed with some of your posts and i've made it very clear, but i will give you huge credit & respect for this post!!! Very well said & a great approach / attitude to have!!

[zimmy]

15 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Thats actually not what I am saying though. 

 

My post was about what they project publicly, not what they do or say privately because, like you said, I dont know that. I am sure they know the mistakes they have made.

 

If you listen to Benning especially when someone asks him about a mistake or a negative situation, he typically does a couple of things. First, he dismisses the possibility anything is wrong right away. Then he usually goes into a usually long, convoluted answer that does not actually pertain to the question. When he was on 650 yesterday, listen to his frustrated response to the question about players being unhappy about communication. He directly refutes what his own players, especially JT Miller, said publicly. 

 

There are easy ways to answer that question without trying to completely dismiss it that would probably help him calm down nervous fans a bit and help himself gain some credibility with them in the process.

 

He could have said, "We know that in some ways players felt left out of the process. To me, that is something we are going to improve on going forward. I feel that communication is good throughout the organization overall but there is always room to improve and thats what we are going to do."

 

An answer like that essentially disarms the narrative right away. So it accompmishes what Benning tries to do with his rambling answers while projecting confidence that he actually has a handle on things.

 

How you present things matters a lot. Benning is appallingly bad at public speaking and answering questions. That much is pretty obvious. But there are ways to help himself. He does himself no favors by getting defensive and whitewashing legitimate issues. Combined with his actions of not actually doing things differently, I can understand why people dont trust him.

 

Benning and Green are not dead to me. They are our GM and coach for the foreseeable future. I want them to be successful and hope that they do learn from their mistakes.

 

The trouble is, if you bring back everyone, you are saying right up front that everything is fine and there is nothing that can be improved on with coaching. I think given the results thats a risky message. Combined with saying you as GM are going to be aggressive doing the same things you have done in the past (mid level ufa signings, using vets to plug holes, etc.) it creates a lot of uncertainty given how those moves have worked out previously.

 

Nothing in what either of them said yesterday gave any indication much of substance will be done differently. I hope I am wrong.

To hope JB will ever be able to articulate in the manner that you wish is foolish. In the role of communicator (or politician) he is, and always has been, ill suited.
 

Having already set in my mind that the two would be back (and feeling okay about this), my ultimate hope was that a new president of hockey ops was going to be named who could fulfill the role of the community “fluffer”. He would smoothly keep the masses satisfied that management had a vision and then help educate them on what they should be keeping an eye on. Someone not only to divert attention from the front liners, but skilled enough and with enough of a resume (chops) to win back some of the respect the team might have lost throughout this regime.

 

if my faith in this team is misplaced then so be it but it is a faith based on a belief that coaches, like players and managers, can evolve and change despite appearances to the contrary. Bringing all the coaches back (and we don’t know of this eventuality) is an act that engenders hope, at least for me. I’m glad you share that hope.

 

 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Just when you thought the Canucks were turning the corner in the right direction

 

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, Provost said:

... thanks for proving my point about "blind loyalty"

But you are demonstrating blind loyalty to a cause that's just been shot down.  It's over - accept defeat.  JB & TG are back and all the screaming, whining, explaining in the world isn't going to change that in the immediate.  Down the road?  Maybe...but it's not going to be because fans "demand it".  Those who do show up "to boo" are still putting money in the pockets so it's going to be absorbed by the players.  The only way to show your disapproval is...moving on.

 

Because it becomes totally redundant and "noise" after the case has been closed.

 

Is it ok to be disgruntled and NOT accept decisions?  Of course.   But people's personal frustration is their own to work through and it's expected that, at some point, they do that.  Those who don't accept failure ARE by continuing with a mission that ultimately failed.  All the backlash that was thrown at the owners/management didn't sway them at all so it's time to implement Plan B.  Or learn to just enjoy the ride for what it is...win AND lose.  All teams fail at times.

[tas]

at the end of the day, being a critical fan is like being a backseat driver who's never had a driver's licence or owned a car. not only are you bitching about and judging and criticising someone for trying their best to do something nice for you, you're doing it from a place of complete ignorance. 

[Fred65]

Quote

 All teams fail at times.

That is true, but that's not why people are upset or losing faith. This is a history of failure season after season

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, zimmy said:

To hope JB will ever be able to articulate in the manner that you wish is foolish. In the role of communicator (or politician) he is, and always has been, ill suited.
 

Having already set in my mind that the two would be back (and feeling okay about this), my ultimate hope was that a new president of hockey ops was going to be named who could fulfill the role of the community “fluffer”. He would smoothly keep the masses satisfied that management had a vision and then help educate them on what they should be keeping an eye on. Someone not only to divert attention from the front liners, but skilled enough and with enough of a resume (chops) to win back some of the respect the team might have lost throughout this regime.

 

if my faith in this team is misplaced then so be it but it is a faith based on a belief that coaches, like players and managers, can evolve and change despite appearances to the contrary. Bringing all the coaches back (and we don’t know of this eventuality) is an act that engenders hope, at least for me. I’m glad you share that hope.

 

 

Even if not a President...a media/communications officer would probably benefit the organization a LOT in this (ridiculous) market.

 

That said, while understanding that that is clearly not one of Jim's strengths, I have to question why so many seem to require, as you succinctly put it, 'fluffing'. But I suppose it's a symptom of the times.

 

The funny thing is, it's a careful what you wish for scenario IMO. The better crafted and more innocuous the message is from the Canucks, the less real information this fan base actually gets IMO.

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Just when you thought the Canucks were turning the corner in the right direction

 

I still feel they are.

 

Get Petey back healthy.  Hoglander is showing why we can be excited.  Bo's doing some great work.  Brock's back in form.  Demko is brilliant.

 

Podz is coming.  Hopefully Hamoic's in place (he's solid).  Rathbone gives us reason to believe.  Huggy's becoming so confident and is just having fun out there (what's not to love?).  Miller is a beast.  Etc.

 

But sure...it's all gloom and doom.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Just when you thought the Canucks were turning the corner in the right direction

 

I think some of us mix up love for our team and entertainment.  Your post is entertaining; it’s funny.  Sure we fans will disagree about how the team is managed and coached.  That’s what fans do.  But having fun while doing that is the whole point, no?  If some fans want to be super negative about the team’s direction, that’s their choice.  I think we have a really exciting young core, and can be a top team for the next decade.  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

That is true, but that's not why people are upset or losing faith. This is a history of failure season after season

We are rebuilding though.  During a rebuild it's best (I think) to collect high draft picks.  We are drafting top ten again.  This is good.  More young guys on their ELCs to support the core (when the core is mature) coming along.  

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

That is true, but that's not why people are upset or losing faith. This is a history of failure season after season

Right. 

 

Except we have a bunch of guys who aren't responsible for that so maybe let's watch and see what happens with them in the line up?  Don't pin a history of failure on guys like Hoggy, Rathbone, Podkolzin...even Quinn, Petey, Brock, Demko, Bo.   They don't even have "a history" yet.

[ShawnAntoski]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We are rebuilding though.  During a rebuild it's best (I think) to collect high draft picks.  We are drafting top ten again.  This is good.  More young guys on their ELCs to support the core (when the core is mature) coming along.  

Imo, a rebuilding club (like the California teams) would be going for a top 3 pick; whearas, the Canucks would be more of a mid level bottom feeder due to the usual 5-10 draft positions - hope JB, continues his draft mojo & some teams goes off boards.   

Edited May 22, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

6 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I still feel they are.

 

Get Petey back healthy.  Hoglander is showing why we can be excited.  Bo's doing some great work.  Brock's back in form.  Demko is brilliant.

 

Podz is coming.  Hopefully Hamoic's in place (he's solid).  Rathbone gives us reason to believe.  Huggy's becoming so confident and is just having fun out there (what's not to love?).  Miller is a beast.  Etc.

 

But sure...it's all gloom and doom.

Not with Green as coach, just a waste of talent.

[Fred65]

Just now, Alflives said:

We are rebuilding though.  During a rebuild it's best (I think) to collect high draft picks.  We are drafting top ten again.  This is good.  More young guys on their ELCs to support the core (when the core is mature) coming along.  

No this is bad, it demonstrates how we've failed  and there for garnered so many top picks.

 

Alfie, This is the play by play for the last 7 years

1) we can turn this team around quickly. 2014

2) we're going to rebuild 2017

3) we're going to buy out our problems and errors in past judgement. 2021

 

As to your post over success for  the next decade, believe it or not many fans don't have another decade to judge  

 

 

[Alflives]

Just now, ShawnAntoski said:

Imo, a rebuilding clubs (like the California teams) would be going for a top 3 pick; whearas, the Canucks would be more of mid level bottom feeder with the usual 5-10 draft positions - hope JB, continues his draft mojo & some teams goes off boards.   

No rule says that a team’s most important players (drafted during the rebuild) come from top three picks. It’s, like you say, having great scouts picking the right guys.  Bess, Petey, and Hughes are excellent.  Demko too.  Imo Podkolzin will be in that group too, of great players selected outside of the top three.  Bone was fourth round.  We missed on Jake and OJ, but guys like Hoglanderand Bone cover those misses.