[proposal] Jake Virtanen for Tyler Johnson

[khay]

32 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Doesn’t necessarily has to be his line that takes on the tougher physical match ups.  You can put a Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin line in that role instead..   That can then free up Johnson and Hoglander for more offensive opportunities against weaker lines.  

I would prefer to free up Horvat to do some scoring though. Horvat is approaching his prime years and I fully expect a 70-80 point player out of him. With EP already a PPG player, I expect those two guys to carry the offence moving forward.

 

I would really like our 3C to be to Bo, how Manny Malholtra was to Kesler. I'm doubtful that Johnson can do that for Bo.

 

There are some risks to getting Johnson too.

 

His cap hit is 5 mil. We are about to get out of Eriksson's contract. If Johnson doesn't perform up to expectation, we have another LE on our hands.

 

At 31 years old and 5'8, I really don't see him centering our 3rd line even if we are using the third line for scoring.

 

If I'm committing 5 mil for a 3C, I want someone younger and with bit more size as well.

 

Nice proposal though -- it's an interesting idea. At the end of the day, Johnson's cap and the remaining terms are too long let alone the fit.

 

 

[Phil_314]

Agreed that Johnson could play C but we don't have 3 two-way C's (maybe unless we put Miller up the middle) to buffer him, and Johnson feasting on other 4th lines but costing $5 million is too much for our team's cap structure (hope no teams with cap try to poach our other stars who need to be paid).  While he did play with Palat and Kucherov (I think it was these two) when he broke into the league and he with Podkolzin and Pearson could make for a two-way unit (or he, Motte and Highmore/ Hawryluk could be a smaller but effective 4th line), again the price point is the major sticking point for me (and it's not like TB can really afford to retain cap, if I recall correctly).  

[Patel Bure]

10 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Agreed that Johnson could play C but we don't have 3 two-way C's (maybe unless we put Miller up the middle) to buffer him, and Johnson feasting on other 4th lines but costing $5 million is too much for our team's cap structure (hope no teams with cap try to poach our other stars who need to be paid).  While he did play with Palat and Kucherov (I think it was these two) when he broke into the league and he with Podkolzin and Pearson could make for a two-way unit (or he, Motte and Highmore/ Hawryluk could be a smaller but effective 4th line), again the price point is the major sticking point for me (and it's not like TB can really afford to retain cap, if I recall correctly).  

Also @khay,

 

Maybe bring in Johnson, use him as a RW, and use Miller as a center?

Hoglander-Miller-Johnson
Roussel-Pettersson-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin 

 

Maybe not those exact lines, but something to that effect?   That way, you still keep your toughness down the middle.

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Provost]

I would have taken Johnson 3 years ago.  He was waived last year with no takers.  I don't think he is a bad player, but at this point it takes a sweetener to absorb that salary.

I fully expect Tampa and Seattle to make some sort of deal to send Johnson there.  He is a hometown Washington State guy and a Stanley Cup winner so could be a good early face of the franchise as captain.

[Kobayashi Maru]

If we need a 3C I think we just go for a short term option like Stasny, Staal, Bjugstad, Granlund etc.  Tons of vet C so we can likely get one and swap Virt for another out of favour prospect or bu him out.

[canuktravella]

3 hours ago, khay said:

I understand the game has changed and size does not equate to "tough to play against".

 

I'm just saying that Johnson at 31 years old, may not be able to play that hard forechecking game needed on our 3rd line.

 

tampa is buying out johnson no ones taking that contract  for 3 yrs unless they gave up cernak and 1st rounder and a 2nd   

[goblix]

At first I was like hmmm yeah this could work.. then I saw Johnson is 30 and has fairly meh point totals

 

If rather try to target Alex Wennberg UFA from Florida... If he hits the market that is.. 26 years old with a good mix of speed and skill.

[logic]

Only way it makes sense is if Tampa retained 1.5-2m, I like the idea though, better than most proposals on you see.

[Pears]

10 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Rather see Jake for Logan Stanley. But does Jake really have any value? 

His value went out the window with these accusations tbh. And if they have any legs he’s done. 

[JM_]

Unlike Miller this one is in the 'cap dump' category, so I'd want at least Foote added to the deal. We could expose TJ as well to Seattle, who may want him for the hometown guy angle. 

 

Even with Foote added, doesn't feel like enough return for taking on that salary now. 

[Alflives]

6 hours ago, canuktravella said:

tampa is buying out johnson no ones taking that contract  for 3 yrs unless they gave up cernak and 1st rounder and a 2nd   

This is exactly it, and a million (actually 15 million) times over.

We will buy out Jake.  The end. 

[Patel Bure]

7 hours ago, goblix said:

At first I was like hmmm yeah this could work.. then I saw Johnson is 30 and has fairly meh point totals

 

If rather try to target Alex Wennberg UFA from Florida... If he hits the market that is.. 26 years old with a good mix of speed and skill.

Johnson’s point totals are a direct result of him Being buried on a heavily stacked Tampa team.  He’d be a 3rd line / 2B center almost anywhere else.  He scored 29 goals in 18-19.

 

”finesse” diminutive players like Johnson also tend to age very well (case in point, Radim Vrbata).  
 

Wenneberg would be nice but would he be willing to sign with us?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

This is exactly it, and a million (actually 15 million) times over.

We will buy out Jake.  The end. 

Jake is a no-brainer buy out. And yes that works multiple ways.

 

I do think Holtby is also a potential buyout candidate, not because he's that bad, but he's the next best one from a cash flow pov at 3.8 mil in cap space for next year. Add 2.5 from dumb dumb and we have a nice 6.3 to land a new 3C. I just hope Jim doesn't waste it on Tyson Barrie. 

 

 

[UKNuck96]

12 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Rather see Jake for Logan Stanley. But does Jake really have any value? 

Would like to see Logan Stanley as well but don’t see that trade happening 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

Would like to see Logan Stanley as well but don’t see that trade happening 

I know, maybe Pat Quinn's ghost can whisper in the Winnipeg GM's ear.

[Nucker 67]

Jake is untradeable. Canucks will buy him out and then he's gone - for nothing. 

[goblix]

55 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Johnson’s point totals are a direct result of him Being buried on a heavily stacked Tampa team.  He’d be a 3rd line / 2B center almost anywhere else.  He scored 29 goals in 18-19.

 

”finesse” diminutive players like Johnson also tend to age very well (case in point, Radim Vrbata).  
 

Wenneberg would be nice but would he be willing to sign with us?

I think we'd have a good shot to sign him teams know we have good for talent and he'd be in that age range that fits the bill for this team.

 

Johnson probably be fine I'd probably do it if they give me an asset for the cash they want to move out.

Anyways Jake is likely untradeable until his investigation is over which probably will take awhile...

If we can trade like a meh prospect for their 2nd and Johnson then that could work out for both teams.

 

Can then use that pick to target a good expansion draft exposed player

[VegasCanuck]

15 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

[proposal] Jake Virtanen for Tyler Johnson
 

Why Tampa does this:

 

-Reduce cap space and long term liabilities

-Get a youngish player that could thrive in a new environment 

 

Why the Canucks do this:

-Significantly improve their 3rd line C spot

-Tyler Johnson still has game.  He’s just been buried on a very deep Tampa team and is on the 4th line as a result.

-The young and upcoming Podkolzin will be guaranteed to play with a good offensive minded center regardless of which line he plays on.  This will help his development.

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Roussel-Johnson-Podkolzin

Motte-Lind-Highmore

 

 

 

 

Conceptually, sure!

 

In realistic practice, I don't think that you could trade Jake right now for a 7th round pick, even if you were retaining salary. Until he is completely cleared (don't think that is going to happen), he's going to be viewed as toxic in the league.

 

Our only real 2 options with him right now are, buy him out, or if there are real grounds here, terminate his contract under the code of conduct clause and let him go and continue his career in the KHL. 

[oldnews]

Hard pass. 

 

The OP isn't realizing the market value of $15 million worth of dumped cap imo.

 

That is quite a price - particularly in recent times - have a look at the cost of dumping a single year of $5 million worth of cap,let alone 3 years.

Johnson has repeatedly cleared waivers.

 

If you get Cal Foote thrown into that deal - and perhaps another sweetener, then there's a starter there imo.

I like TJ - he's serviceable - a decent defensive forward who can win faceoffs - but he's more suited to top 6 wing than he is bottom six hard minutes (which he doesn't really play, nor does he kill penalties).   

Not a good fit, at all, for what this team needs - and with $15 million of cap committed when this team needs to allocate that cap to young players, a partner for Hughes, and would still need legit bottom six centers.

Now - if the team 'transitioned' it's 3rd line to secondary scoring - he could make a serviceable option, although with limited production....I'm not sure they're ready for that, and I'm not keen that that role be filled by a 5'8", 183lb 30+ yr old at $5 million.  Tampa would really have to make that worth our while imo - otherwise the proposal here does them a massive favour.  They don't need any favours - not from a team like ours that is looking to rise, not recommit to bad contracts.

 

[Phil_314]

12 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Also @khay,

 

Maybe bring in Johnson, use him as a RW, and use Miller as a center?

Hoglander-Miller-Johnson
Roussel-Pettersson-Boeser
Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin 

 

Maybe not those exact lines, but something to that effect?   That way, you still keep your toughness down the middle.

The thing with this is, I don't see him getting the top line minutes to warrant his pay, and at the same time Boeser and Podkolzin need to play big minutes too for their development.  Secondly, even if he started off getting the minutes, I think we have enough forward depth that he won't get the prime top-6/ PP opportunities to justify his contract and he might return to being an albatross contract if he slumps.  If those lines do work and we become Tampa lite up front that would be great, but the price of his contract still has some risk e.g. of other RFA's getting offer-sheeted and so it might lead to one step forward, two steps back (TB probably needs to dump cap next season with Kucherov and Stamkos healthy -- they lucked out this year as both were on LTIR for the season).  In short, there's too many concerns for me for salary cap, player deployment and other stars' development to take on so much money and with term.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Phil_314