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Cheap Violence Getting Outa' Hand

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3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

They've gotta' talk this over at season's end. Suspensions might have to be doubled/tripled in term.

 

Too many players playing with no conscience.

It’s not just on the DOPs it’s also partly on the NHLPA they are against pretty much any fines or suspensions. They need to realise that while their core base is plugs and not stars, they have a duty of care to all players. To be a good union you need to know when to jettison or do something for the greater good and not just entrench on everything, to the detriment to a good portion of its members. 

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1 minute ago, UKNuck96 said:

It’s not just on the DOPs it’s also partly on the NHLPA they are against pretty much any fines or suspensions. They need to realise that while their core base is plugs and not stars, they have a duty of care to all players. To be a good union you need to know when to jettison or do something for the greater good and not just entrench on everything, to the detriment to a good portion of its members. 

Yes indeed. Why I suggested at season's end. All parties must sit down & hash this out, for both the good of the game & health of the players.

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22 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yes indeed. Why I suggested at season's end. All parties must sit down & hash this out, for both the good of the game & health of the players.

Yep all parties need to find a solution 

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1 minute ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Is the game getting more violent or are we just getting softer?

It’s a multifaceted situation. Because of knowing the impact of issues such as concussions have, the league had a duty of care to the players, it’s hockey not MMA on ice. 
 

Also people’s attitudes to violence are different now, and in the European leagues and the Worlds it’s about the skill of playing the game not about goonery.

 

Also the skill of the refs, the attitude of the league and sponsors all play into it.
 

checking still exists however there is criteria on how to do it properly. It’s like with rugby tackling is still in the game, however there is now a lot more in place to ensure that it can still be done in a safe manner.

 

culture plays a lot into it. 
 

Personally I think the ‘good old days of hockey’ was a lot of hack and slash and skilled players were often hounded out of the game. 
 

if the league is consistent and transparent the refs are fair and they actually work with the community rather than as an isolated league you can breed in a culture of playing hard but fair.

 

that’s where the downside of closed league drafts come in, in that there is no incentive to cultivate youth, as other clubs do that. 
 

the NHL needs to work with all bodies in North America to solve this and it’s not just an issue of being softer, as you can hard without playing dirty 

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They need bigger ice, they're to fast out there now, for the safety of the players they need more room and time to react, but instead they just keep changing rules and making 3 on 3 hockey instead, players are still getting faster so it's not slowing down, it's just going to get worse and if the NHL doesn't change the ice size it might be just 4 on 4 instead of 5 on 5 one day and that will ruin the sport if they take that aprroach to the game.

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2 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

They need bigger ice, they're to fast out there now, for the safety of the players they need more room and time to react, but instead they just keep changing rules and making 3 on 3 hockey instead, players are still getting faster so it's not slowing down, it's just going to get worse and if the NHL doesn't change the ice size it might be just 4 on 4 instead of 5 on 5 one day and that will ruin the sport if they take that aprroach to the game.

More ice equals bigger area to speed up in, smaller ice more crowded can slow down the game. 
 

the issue isn’t needing more space, it’s about needing to embed a culture of player safety through out North America from when kids first pick up a stick right the way through the NHL. The league also needs to up its game.

 

part of the problem is that the NHL and other leagues in North America are leagues unto themselves and not part of a standardised governance. So the way each league refs and manages and treats certain situations is different. There is no continuity 

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On 6/3/2021 at 9:33 AM, UKNuck96 said:

It’s a multifaceted situation. Because of knowing the impact of issues such as concussions have, the league had a duty of care to the players, it’s hockey not MMA on ice. 
 

Also people’s attitudes to violence are different now, and in the European leagues and the Worlds it’s about the skill of playing the game not about goonery.

 

Also the skill of the refs, the attitude of the league and sponsors all play into it.
 

checking still exists however there is criteria on how to do it properly. It’s like with rugby tackling is still in the game, however there is now a lot more in place to ensure that it can still be done in a safe manner.

 

culture plays a lot into it. 
 

Personally I think the ‘good old days of hockey’ was a lot of hack and slash and skilled players were often hounded out of the game. 
 

if the league is consistent and transparent the refs are fair and they actually work with the community rather than as an isolated league you can breed in a culture of playing hard but fair.

 

that’s where the downside of closed league drafts come in, in that there is no incentive to cultivate youth, as other clubs do that. 
 

the NHL needs to work with all bodies in North America to solve this and it’s not just an issue of being softer, as you can hard without playing dirty 

The game is also faster, the plugs are put in the game because a big player is good at clogging zones instead of playing the player, but it's also about what the penalties mean. If you look at handball for example they have different types of penalties there because not all penalties are equal, and it's essentially the same concept as hockey, put object into a net by trying to find open lanes. 

 

I also advocate for things like fouls instead of penalties. Maybe that hooking in the neutral zone didn't really prevent a scoring play so why should one team get an increased opportunity to score a goal? Maybe referees will call those things more often if they don't feel they're affecting the outcome of the game while still giving some kind of reasonable punishment, maybe do something like basketball, 5 fouls and you're out of the game, or 5 fouls and then the team gets a powerplay. Of course refs would still have discretion to call a 2 minute power play when they feel a scoring play was truly negated by a foul.

 

I also think things like slashing and cross checking need to go, hockey needs a card system like football, if they know they're going to get docked a game's pay by taking that cross check, maybe they won't do it, you don't see football players throwing fists when someone runs a goalie, I can't think of a sport that involves putting an object into a goal or zone that puts up with the amount of BS that hockey does.

Edited by canuckster19
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Speed is a major contributing factor. Through training, speeds formerly unattainable are now being achieved by an ever greater number of players.

 

I wouldn't give a hoot if they put 2-4 kg weights on every player's skates. If it's relative across the board, I wouldn't care if they managed to slow all movement by 10-15%. Prob be easier to follow the game's strategy & beauty, anyways. As viewers, we'd all get used to it within a number of games/wks, I'm sure.

 

Also the accidental collisions(like Tavares' injury) would decrease, if play were slowed down significantly.

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4 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

More ice equals bigger area to speed up in, smaller ice more crowded can slow down the game. 
 

the issue isn’t needing more space, it’s about needing to embed a culture of player safety through out North America from when kids first pick up a stick right the way through the NHL. The league also needs to up its game.

 

part of the problem is that the NHL and other leagues in North America are leagues unto themselves and not part of a standardised governance. So the way each league refs and manages and treats certain situations is different. There is no continuity 

More ice yes makes the speed go up even more which then makes it even more entertaining, but it also gives the players a lot more time to react to situations then in a crowded situation which is just asking for trouble. Overtime is a prime example of the league tinkering with the rules to generate more scoring with more open ice, not sure how you haven't see this yet.... How many players are being injured in overtime when it's 3 on 3, all that open ice for it to speed up hasn't created more injuries.

 

The issue is they need more ice, and they need more ice without changing the amount of players on the ice, it needs to stay 5 on 5. If they want to keep hitting in the game they need to give the players more time to react to protect themselves. The longer it stays the way it is, the worse it's going to get for injuries, unless they remove hitting completely from the game and imo that will just ruin the sport completely if they do that. To avoid doing that, changing rules after rules, changing the amount of players on the ice to generate more scoring, just make the ice bigger already, it's honestly the best for the game going forward, for entertainment value, safety value, and even help the referees to make the right call.

 

The game is to crowded right now and it's just going to get worse as players keep evolving into faster and better players, like for instance Hoglanders move behind the net lacrosse style goal, you'd probably be able to see him do that a couple times this year if the ice was bigger, but since it's not it's over crowded he doesn't have the time to try and pull that off, that's just one example of what we are being limited to see. With all these young talents coming into the game we probably could be seeing some very impressive moves out there, if they had more ice to try these things, but because they don't have the ice and time to try these we can't see them, and that's the entertainment side of it. 

 

This is an issue I've been arguing about since 2011 when Crosby was blindsided and was given his concussion, even since that one incident I've been on board for bigger ice and will continue to be on board with it until it's actually done, one day it will but until then I will continue to say they need bigger ice.

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On 5/22/2021 at 6:26 PM, Alflives said:

If anything we will see expansion to Europe.  

Hush.  Isn't that the NHL's broad macro plan?  They've already primed the product to be tame enough to enter Europe...i'm absolutely certain my great great grand kids will enjoy a 64 team league - the North American League playing the European league for the cup.   That's the two conferences they want long term.  Why do you think the NHL keeps going overseas to play "games"?.   

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4 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

More ice yes makes the speed go up even more which then makes it even more entertaining, but it also gives the players a lot more time to react to situations then in a crowded situation which is just asking for trouble. Overtime is a prime example of the league tinkering with the rules to generate more scoring with more open ice, not sure how you haven't see this yet.... How many players are being injured in overtime when it's 3 on 3, all that open ice for it to speed up hasn't created more injuries.

 

The issue is they need more ice, and they need more ice without changing the amount of players on the ice, it needs to stay 5 on 5. If they want to keep hitting in the game they need to give the players more time to react to protect themselves. The longer it stays the way it is, the worse it's going to get for injuries, unless they remove hitting completely from the game and imo that will just ruin the sport completely if they do that. To avoid doing that, changing rules after rules, changing the amount of players on the ice to generate more scoring, just make the ice bigger already, it's honestly the best for the game going forward, for entertainment value, safety value, and even help the referees to make the right call.

 

The game is to crowded right now and it's just going to get worse as players keep evolving into faster and better players, like for instance Hoglanders move behind the net lacrosse style goal, you'd probably be able to see him do that a couple times this year if the ice was bigger, but since it's not it's over crowded he doesn't have the time to try and pull that off, that's just one example of what we are being limited to see. With all these young talents coming into the game we probably could be seeing some very impressive moves out there, if they had more ice to try these things, but because they don't have the ice and time to try these we can't see them, and that's the entertainment side of it. 

 

This is an issue I've been arguing about since 2011 when Crosby was blindsided and was given his concussion, even since that one incident I've been on board for bigger ice and will continue to be on board with it until it's actually done, one day it will but until then I will continue to say they need bigger ice.

If more ice meant more scoring, why do Euro/KHL leagues have such low scoring leagues?   To me it always comes down to talent level.  It's taken forever for the league to catch up to expansion.   Had to remove the redline and change the rules to make it easier to score.    21 teams.  16.  6.   It's finally getting close again.   Just hope expansion is finally done.   Diluted talent.   

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11 hours ago, IBatch said:

If more ice meant more scoring, why do Euro/KHL leagues have such low scoring leagues?   To me it always comes down to talent level.  It's taken forever for the league to catch up to expansion.   Had to remove the redline and change the rules to make it easier to score.    21 teams.  16.  6.   It's finally getting close again.   Just hope expansion is finally done.   Diluted talent.   

You pretty much answered your own question there, talent, that's why you don't see it in those leagues as much because those aren't the best players in the world playing, just a handful of some good players. A good example is when NHL players played in the Olympics when you put that type of talent together Canada on a bigger ice they blow out some countries 15-0, 10-1 that's talent big difference, but when they play against like USA or Sweeden or Russia they're better games and it's not low scoring games always, it's normally entertaining games.

 

If you really don't think more ice creates more scoring... So in your mind then why is regular season overtime 3 on 3 then? Just for show....

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On 6/3/2021 at 12:23 AM, Dumb Nuck said:

Is the game getting more violent or are we just getting softer?

Viewers are like charmin, ultra soft...good for the butt but bad if you play a physical, high speed, contact sport. You get paid a ton, but you take the risk everytime you hop over the boards if you don't keep your head up/aware of your surroundings.

 

NHL will never go back to a goon league, but man people whine about everything nowadays. Thank god this site is my only social media...I can't imagine how people survive twitter, crackbook etc

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38 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

You pretty much answered your own question there, talent, that's why you don't see it in those leagues as much because those aren't the best players in the world playing, just a handful of some good players. A good example is when NHL players played in the Olympics when you put that type of talent together Canada on a bigger ice they blow out some countries 15-0, 10-1 that's talent big difference, but when they play against like USA or Sweeden or Russia they're better games and it's not low scoring games always, it's normally entertaining games.

 

If you really don't think more ice creates more scoring... So in your mind then why is regular season overtime 3 on 3 then? Just for show....

In 3-3 and on larger rinks you also get the situation that if you give more space you get a more tactical possession based game. So games can be a lot lower scoring because they play slower and keep puck as opposed to basket ball style rush back and forth. 
 

gebrally speaking lower quality players normally results in higher scoring games against compatible levels of completion as the Goalies and D are not to the same level.

 

better doesn’t equal more goals, better often results in less. 

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On 5/23/2021 at 10:32 AM, Canuckster86 said:

It is due in some part with the NHL trying to transition into a euro hockey league with no fighting and minimal physicality. When you take fighting out or penalize a guy with 17min worth of penalties it LIMITS how often players will stand up for others due to the hole you put your team in and INCREASES more dirty plays etc...this is nothing new and will get worse all the league can do is and out larger fines and longer term suspensions but that doesn't stop it from happening.

 

NHL will never go back to the earlier years in the league but fighting should be allowed to try to limit these dirty plays/injuries. We have seen it first hand, Canucks have a gem in Petey but he is very slender and gets hacked/whacked/manhandled and what has it led to...INJURIES to our best F and what does the end result turn into, a team lacking a star player and no depth that can remotely step into his role and contribute leading to finishing last in our division, miles away from a Stanley Cup.

 

Last time I checked, you want to play hockey be prepared to get hit as its a physical sport and ALWAYS keep your head up! It's like the NFL trying to get rid of the big hits and turn into a flag football league...who the F wants to watch that kind of sport, hitting is a Huge part of why fans watch.

 

Don't like fighting or rough play...go watch a different sport like soccer where players drop to the ground like they've been shot trying to draw a penalty!

 

Regular season hockey is basketball on ice. Even the so called emotion and nastiness of playoff games in today's day and age are a joke compared to even 15 years ago.

 

The 2 fights in the Islanders vs Bruins game didn't have any punches at all land on the face and led to weak take down efforts.

 

People are hating on the Islanders for being a boring and difficult  team to watch for being a hardworking grinding team that plays solid team defence blocks shots, wins faceoffs, finishes checks and gets solid goaltending and just enough offence to win despite being outshot and out chanced most games.

 

Their lone truely pure skill guy is probably still just  Barzal only.

 

They lack the big name stars and well known players that Boston and the other playoff teams have.

 

They are a blue collar team that out works the opposition rolls all their lines and ds and can't get by on just top end skill alone.

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On 6/4/2021 at 11:16 AM, Hairy Kneel said:

Maybe we should take hitting out of hockey. Full cage masks for all players too. 

passive aggressiveness, nice touch.

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On 6/5/2021 at 10:13 AM, UKNuck96 said:

In 3-3 and on larger rinks you also get the situation that if you give more space you get a more tactical possession based game. So games can be a lot lower scoring because they play slower and keep puck as opposed to basket ball style rush back and forth. 
 

gebrally speaking lower quality players normally results in higher scoring games against compatible levels of completion as the Goalies and D are not to the same level.

 

better doesn’t equal more goals, better often results in less. 

I'll agree to an extent, the 3 on 3 the NHL has right now I personally believe it should be 4 on 4, not 3 on 3, but the whole purpose of it was to try and prevent less shootouts and generate more scoring in OT by giving them more space. Like you said we see the puck possession more, whether it's so they don't give up an opportunity with all that open space, or just hanging on for a chance in the shootout, I'd rather see 10mins of 4 on 4 and get ride of the shootout. 5 on 5 on international ice isn't like a huge dramatic change like 3 on 3 to 5 on 5 is on NHL ice, we wouldn't be seeing that puck possession crap for 60 mins, you might see more of that if it was 4 on 4 on international ice but not 5 on 5, they're fast enough now.

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