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Buyout Candidates...Will we see any this year?

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I've been trying to learn about how they work and it seems there are 2 sets of rules depending on age.

 

After much reading, is it true that Jake is pretty much the only one that might be worthy of a buyout?

 

Erikkson, Roussel only gives minimum cap relief but an additional year of cap hits makes it not worth it in my opinion.

If we get through this 21-22 season, we can go in with a clean slate rather than have another year of carry over with Eriksson and Roussel.

 

Me personally, I'd rather take my lumps in 21-22 and just be done with it

 

 

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JV for sure if he's not outright terminated.   Outside of that I certainly hope not.   Well Holtby isn't too bad but wow.   Who is our back-up and is it really worth adding to our cap the year it finally all comes off?   

 

NO.   That's my hope anyways.  JV yes the rest NO.   Play the kids.   

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13 minutes ago, Provost said:

It seems that Virtanen and Holtby would be the most prime candidates for buyouts.

I don't suspect that there will be any more info on a criminal or civil case for Virtanen in time to terminate his contract, so a buyout is a cheap and easy way to move on.

Hotlby probably won't be taken in expansion, and his buyout saves a lot of cap space.... Demko has shown that he doesn't need as much handholding as they thought and a cheaper veteran backup would be fine.

I don't know about Eriksson and Roussel... not a lot saved and just pushing cap pain for a year so only if we really need the cap space.  I still think the best bet is to just tell Eriksson that he won't be invited to camp and will be riding the bus all year, put the ball in his court regarding retirement.

there's no reason to buyout Rous, putting him in Abby is just as good. 

 

I actually don't want them to buy out Loui. Just stick him in Abby too. ECHL if thats contractually possible. 

 

Holtby is an interesting one. Yes you can save 3.8 this year but you do have to go out and get a backup, Mikey D isn't ready yet... but maybe after another 1/2 a season in the AHL? so I guess you could go out and get someone like maybe Carter Hutton for 1 mil?

 

and then there's the 1.9 mil cap year in year 2 of Holby's buyout, that stings a bit. 

 

He's expensive for a backup, but it is nice having a good tandem too. Might be the difference between playoffs of not. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Provost said:

It seems that Virtanen and Holtby would be the most prime candidates for buyouts.

I don't suspect that there will be any more info on a criminal or civil case for Virtanen in time to terminate his contract, so a buyout is a cheap and easy way to move on.

Hotlby probably won't be taken in expansion, and his buyout saves a lot of cap space.... Demko has shown that he doesn't need as much handholding as they thought and a cheaper veteran backup would be fine.

I don't know about Eriksson and Roussel... not a lot saved and just pushing cap pain for a year so only if we really need the cap space.  I still think the best bet is to just tell Eriksson that he won't be invited to camp and will be riding the bus all year, put the ball in his court regarding retirement.

:lol:

 

Far easier for the Kraken to just select a guy like Highmore off the Canucks (as they have to pick somebody off our roster).  Then pick a goalie like Michael Hutchinson off the Laffs.  Then with the difference in cap savings, just sign a depth D for a couple million.  That depth D + Hutchinson > Holtby.  Neither goalie is a starter but you do need some warm body as the number two.

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14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there's no reason to buyout Rous, putting him in Abby is just as good. 

 

I actually don't want them to buy out Loui. Just stick him in Abby too. ECHL if thats contractually possible. 

 

Holtby is an interesting one. Yes you can save 3.8 this year but you do have to go out and get a backup, Mikey D isn't ready yet... but maybe after another 1/2 a season in the AHL? so I guess you could go out and get someone like maybe Carter Hutton for 1 mil?

 

and then there's the 1.9 mil cap year in year 2 of Holby's buyout, that stings a bit. 

 

He's expensive for a backup, but it is nice having a good tandem too. Might be the difference between playoffs of not. 

 

Yeah, I don't see the point in Holtby. By the time you buy him out and sign a new backup, either those 'savings' are largely gone and/or you've downgraded your backup (while adding that $1.9 the year following). No bueno.

 

If SEA doesn't take him (even with a bit of sweetener), he's our backup next year IMO.

 

Only reason I could see Eriksson is that it saves the owner cash, spreads it over two years and finally closes the book on that awful mess. Otherwise yup, have fun in Abbotsford.

 

Ditto likely Roussel (if he's not on IR).

 

Virtanen I'm thinking is just going to get voided (yes, yes... Innocent until...).

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Eriksson in Abbotsford only cost us an extra $875,000 and nothing next year. Since he wont retire he can play, or not, on the farm. As for the rest, JV buyout/terminate. Beagle, still think he is a good 4th line center. Roussel, buyout. Holtby trade if possible, if not offer the Kraken incentive to take off our hands. Next years lineup, JB has a lot of holes to fill...

 

Miller Petey Boeser

Hoglander Horvat Podz

Pearson **** ------

Motte Beagle

 

Hughes ******

Schmidt ******

Rathbone Myers 

 

Demko

DePietro

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16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there's no reason to buyout Rous, putting him in Abby is just as good. 

 

I actually don't want them to buy out Loui. Just stick him in Abby too. ECHL if thats contractually possible. 

 

Holtby is an interesting one. Yes you can save 3.8 this year but you do have to go out and get a backup, Mikey D isn't ready yet... but maybe after another 1/2 a season in the AHL? so I guess you could go out and get someone like maybe Carter Hutton for 1 mil?

 

and then there's the 1.9 mil cap year in year 2 of Holby's buyout, that stings a bit. 

 

He's expensive for a backup, but it is nice having a good tandem too. Might be the difference between playoffs of not. 

 

Anybody at 3 or less in cap it's probably "better" to just bury them in the minors. Holtby would be the only one even remotely 'in the zone' for a buyout, but we come back to the actual problem at hand - "what do we need the cap space for?" As you point out, we still need "a" backup, and Holtby showed he can do that job, albeit at a very expensive rate, but he's insurance. In a longer season, getting reliable 1b goaltending means Demko isn't as thrashed going into the playoffs - I remember the heady days of Luongo and (blank) where (blank) was a warm body who wore pads. As a result, Luongo was just gassed going into the playoffs, because they knew the backup wasn't going to win their 50% of the games needed. Holtby will probably maintain a 50% win rate as the backup... which is fine. Is that worth 2m of dead cap and no player to save maybe 1.3 this year after finding another backup and paying them? Probably not... because we're back to the problem - who are we targeting as a new pickup?

 

If we had 12m of "free cap" after re-signings are done that changes the game entirely... but if we're only looking at 1-2-3m after the re-signed people are re-signed... then buyouts aren't going to get us an impact player.

 

Besides, I'm not sure free agency is a direction we should go anyway. Nobody good will be affordable, and almost every time a big FA signing happens it screws the team who signs them. See: Everybody not named Tavares in the past 6 years.

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3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, I don't see the point in Holtby. By the time you buy him out and sign a new backup, either those 'savings' are largely gone and/or you've downgraded your backup (while adding that $1.9 the year following). No bueno.

 

If SEA doesn't take him (even with a bit of sweetener), he's our backup next year IMO.

 

Only reason I could see Eriksson is that it saves the owner cash, spreads it over two years and finally closes the book on that awful mess. Otherwise yup, have fun in Abbotsford.

 

Ditto likely Roussel (if he's not on IR).

 

Virtanen I'm thinking is just going to get voided (yes, yes... Innocent until...).

just out of curiosity, can Loui now be sent to the ECHL?

 

yeah Jake is toasted. Either way it goes its about about the same savings. 

 

The Holtby buyout will only happen if we end up trading for a F upgrade and just have to squeeze out the 1-2 mil needed to fit under the cap, including Ferland's LTIR.

 

But (I hope not but its possible) we may have a situation where we have Ferland, Beagle and Rous on LTIR. Not ideal, but thats nearly 10 mil to play with like Tampa did. 

 

Still a lot of moving parts. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

just out of curiosity, can Loui now be sent to the ECHL?

 

yeah Jake is toasted. Either way it goes its about about the same savings. 

 

The Holtby buyout will only happen if we end up trading for a F upgrade and just have to squeeze out the 1-2 mil needed to fit under the cap, including Ferland's LTIR.

 

But (I hope not but its possible) we may have a situation where we have Ferland, Beagle and Rous on LTIR. Not ideal, but thats nearly 10 mil to play with like Tampa did. 

 

Still a lot of moving parts. 

 

If those guys are on LTIR...I wonder if we see them shipped to a team to use that LTIR space like we saw in a few cases over the past few years?

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1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

I've been trying to learn about how they work and it seems there are 2 sets of rules depending on age.

 

After much reading, is it true that Jake is pretty much the only one that might be worthy of a buyout?

 

Erikkson, Roussel only gives minimum cap relief but an additional year of cap hits makes it not worth it in my opinion.

If we get through this 21-22 season, we can go in with a clean slate rather than have another year of carry over with Eriksson and Roussel.

 

Me personally, I'd rather take my lumps in 21-22 and just be done with it

 

 

someone might trade for LOUI@50% for the purpose of buyout. would  only cost he other team a million in cash and 1.5m total cap over 2 years.

whats that cost a 2nd or third rounder?

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Pretty much guaranteed we'll see at least one given that end-of-season presser.

 

Don't think Benning would have specifically said the B word if they hadn't already planned on it.

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Sorry for the long post...

 

Here are what I feel are the prime candidates for buyouts, along with the savings next year vs cost the following:

 

Roussel:

2021 Saves 1,266,666, Remaining hit 1,733,334

2022 Costs 633,334

 

Beagle:

2021 Saves $800k, Remaining Hit 2,200,000

2022 Costs $400k

 

Holtby:
2021 Saves 3,800,000, Remaining Hit: 500k

2022 Costs 1,900,000

 

Virtanen:

2021Saves 2,500,000 Remaining hit 50K (not a typo)

2022 Costs 500k

 

Little Things

2021 Saves 2,000,000 Remaining Hit 4,000,000

2022 Costs 1,000,000

 

Right now we have $15 mill to play with for next season.  I think it is a safe assumption that we will have Ferlands 3.5 mil LTIR available for the whole season, and likley Beagles 3 for most of it.  We need to be cap compliant on opening day to use those, but that is a pretty easy paper transaction.

 

Assuming Seattle does not go with any of these guys, and there are no takers from trades, I'd buyout Holtby and Virtanen.  Those two open up 5.3 in space next year, and cost us less than 2 the next.  If we have 20 mill open and another 3-6 on LTIR, I feel we should be able to 2 top 9 wingers, a solid stay at home defensive RDH, get an adequate bakcup, and re sign all of our RFA's.

 

 

Forwards

Existing: 23,025,000

Re Signing: Ep 7 mil, Lind ~1 mil, Podz ~1, Sutter 1.5

Waive/Walk/AHL: Rousel, Hawlryluk, Michaelis, Boyd, Graovac, LE, Virtanen

COST: 7 mil

 

Defense

Existing: 13.5

Re Sigining QH 6, Hamonic 2

Walk:Edler

 

Goalies

Existing: 8

Buyout: Holtby 1.9

 

I'd sign Hoffman and Coleman for 8 to fill out the Forwards, Bring in a 2 mill backup to play 25-30 games on a 2 year deal, I assume a guy like Rinne, Dubnyk, Reimer may be in that bucket, but I may be setting my sights too high and have to look at guys like Smith, Elliott, Halak.  I'd try to get Radko Gudas out of Florida, who they can't protect for a B prospect/3rd round pick as they will lose him for nothing.

 

Coleman-EP-Boeser

Podkolzin-Miller-Hoglander

Pearson-Horvat-Hoffman

Highmore-Sutter-Motte

Lind/MacEwan

 

Schmidt-Gudas

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Myers

Joulevi

 

Demko

Rinne

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

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Virtanen and Holtby will be the buyouts.  The combined cap hit for 2021 will be $550,000 so the cap savings will be $6.3 million.  We can sign a backup goalie for $1.5 million and Jake can be replaced internally with Podkolzin at $925,000, so the net savings will be over $4 million.  With that money saved up on the cap it should allow us to go out and get a partner for Hughes.  David Savard at 4x4 would be ideal.

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13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

If those guys are on LTIR...I wonder if we see them shipped to a team to use that LTIR space like we saw in a few cases over the past few years?

even better. Tampa is already -5 mil for next year :shock:

 

I hope Beagle isn't done, but sending him and Ferland to Tampa for a bag of pucks makes complete sense for both teams. Even if Tampa manages to get Seattle to take TJ they still need cap room for Coleman and role players. 

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6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

even better. Tampa is already -5 mil for next year :shock:

 

I hope Beagle isn't done, but sending him and Ferland to Tampa for a bag of pucks makes complete sense for both teams. Even if Tampa manages to get Seattle to take TJ they still need cap room for Coleman and role players. 

beagle and ferland. for palat 1M retained and maroon. would  give us  some  pretty  sweet lines

 

palat petey boeser

pearson horvat podkolzin

hoglander miller lind/highmore?

motte paquette maroon

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1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there's no reason to buyout Rous, putting him in Abby is just as good. 

 

I actually don't want them to buy out Loui. Just stick him in Abby too. ECHL if thats contractually possible. 

 

Holtby is an interesting one. Yes you can save 3.8 this year but you do have to go out and get a backup, Mikey D isn't ready yet... but maybe after another 1/2 a season in the AHL? so I guess you could go out and get someone like maybe Carter Hutton for 1 mil?

 

and then there's the 1.9 mil cap year in year 2 of Holby's buyout, that stings a bit. 

 

He's expensive for a backup, but it is nice having a good tandem too. Might be the difference between playoffs of not. 

 

I'm also on the fence with Holtby.  Depends on who else is available i suppose.    We find a 2 million back-up save 1.8 or so that's not bad.   Really depends.   If JB can snag a legit top four pairing with Hamonic and Holtby's savings then maybe it's worth it.   Doubt AF is struggling with their actual business one bit.   But they might not have the stomach to throw good money away without a real actual benefit coming back - i sure wouldn't.    Hamonic is an easy re-sign.   Our R side needs him.  Schmidt more then replaces Edler on the left side.   If a legit top four RHD is available then for sure go for it.   Myers did an admirable job all considered, if we could find an upgrade on him, also sign Hamonic - Schmidt, QHs ?! (OJ or Rathbone) might not look so bad. 

 

Any time a team can add a legit blue chip player like Miller, Schmidt and Myers it's not a bad thing.    

 

Next season we will find out exactly how "deep" our pool is.   It's what the team will do in preparation for extra cap coming off the next year.   Thankfully we will still be under flat cap then and can poach with that cap if we are smart.   That's the macro plan as i see it, but JB has all the data i don't - and one thing i've learned is he rarely does the expected.   Sometimes with great results.   Sometimes with meh results.   Just hope he stays the course, JV, Beagle on LTIR is about as far as i'd like to see things go.   JB can get a decent back-up the following year with half the cap hit (heck maybe it's even Holbty? Guy did win us a few games when the chips were down with Covid right?).    

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44 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

just out of curiosity, can Loui now be sent to the ECHL?

 

Yeah, I get that Loui didn't work out here and I'm sure both sides regret the situation right now.

Acknowledging this, if the organization does that to Loui (send him to ECHL) good luck ever trying to sign a 'high profile' type UFA again.  A move like that would definitely be viewed by players/agents a punitive and no agent would be telling their clients to choose Vancouver in the future regardless of whether JB overpays or not. 

 

It's not an ideal situation, but if you punish the player (deservedly or not) it will send a message throughout the league in my view and that is not the reputation we want to have.  I get that there will be some who believe 'you get what you deserve' but players potentially thinking of signing here, moving their families and making this their home won't see it that way. 

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