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Buyout Candidates...Will we see any this year?

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CanucksJay

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Can the Canucks have an agreement with Louie to hire him as a European Scout if he happens to retire for the same amount owed for 21-22 season?

He would be one of the highest paid scouts lol

 

THis then could backfire like the Luongo debacle cited for cap cirumvention unless we take Louie's lost earnings next year and spread that over 3 years to give him a 3 year contract as a scout

 

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1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

just out of curiosity, can Loui now be sent to the ECHL?

 

yeah Jake is toasted. Either way it goes its about about the same savings. 

 

The Holtby buyout will only happen if we end up trading for a F upgrade and just have to squeeze out the 1-2 mil needed to fit under the cap, including Ferland's LTIR.

 

But (I hope not but its possible) we may have a situation where we have Ferland, Beagle and Rous on LTIR. Not ideal, but thats nearly 10 mil to play with like Tampa did. 

 

Still a lot of moving parts. 

 

No, the CBA doesn't allow NHL players to be unilaterally sent to the ECHL.

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16 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm also on the fence with Holtby.  Depends on who else is available i suppose.    We find a 2 million back-up save 1.8 or so that's not bad.   Really depends.   If JB can snag a legit top four pairing with Hamonic and Holtby's savings then maybe it's worth it.   Doubt AF is struggling with their actual business one bit.   But they might not have the stomach to throw good money away without a real actual benefit coming back - i sure wouldn't.    Hamonic is an easy re-sign.   Our R side needs him.  Schmidt more then replaces Edler on the left side.   If a legit top four RHD is available then for sure go for it.   Myers did an admirable job all considered, if we could find an upgrade on him, also sign Hamonic - Schmidt, QHs ?! (OJ or Rathbone) might not look so bad. 

 

Any time a team can add a legit blue chip player like Miller, Schmidt and Myers it's not a bad thing.    

 

Next season we will find out exactly how "deep" our pool is.   It's what the team will do in preparation for extra cap coming off the next year.   Thankfully we will still be under flat cap then and can poach with that cap if we are smart.   That's the macro plan as i see it, but JB has all the data i don't - and one thing i've learned is he rarely does the expected.   Sometimes with great results.   Sometimes with meh results.   Just hope he stays the course, JV, Beagle on LTIR is about as far as i'd like to see things go.   JB can get a decent back-up the following year with half the cap hit (heck maybe it's even Holbty? Guy did win us a few games when the chips were down with Covid right?).    

going into this season and throughout, its been painfully obvious that we need a 3C upgrade. Once we fix that, I think we can solve the rest of this in a year once we're really free of a bunch of bad contracts and players. 

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18 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Instead of buyouts id rather try n trade out the bad contracts we have with one year left on them like loui and rousell to a team trying to shed salary or a big contract. 

I like this idea a lot.

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55 minutes ago, aGENT said:

If those guys are on LTIR...I wonder if we see them shipped to a team to use that LTIR space like we saw in a few cases over the past few years?

The cost to dump an LTIR contract is probably too high.  LTIR often doesn’t allow teams to spend up to the cap for their active roster.  It creates bonus overages and limits flexibility to recall players and add at the deadline. 

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3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I like this idea a lot.

It is questionable whether Louie is still a capable NHL player (even in a bottom 6 role)  Otherwise, the Canucks would play him there.  They played him on 3rd line until other players outplayed him even in that role.

 

Our prospects and depth players as it stands are better than Eriksson and Roussel

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2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

It is questionable whether Louie is still a capable NHL player (even in a bottom 6 role)  Otherwise, the Canucks would play him there.  They played him on 3rd line until other players outplayed him even in that role.

 

Our prospects and depth players as it stands are better than Eriksson and Roussel

I don't disagree at all with anything you said. Hopefully Eriksson just retires after taking the bonus money. I'd be embarrassed if I were in his position and I stayed any longer than that.

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I think we need to look at what has always been important to Jim.  The first thing he did was add a veteran goaltender. Depth at goal is one of his trade marks. Can Jim make himself be satisfied with Demko and a youthful backup? There is no use in buying out Holtby and then adding another verteran at 3 mil. If they buyout Holtby then they will need to be happy with youth or a cheep backup. Of coarse Holtby might go in ED. Big might.

Jake will be bought out if not terminated.  

 

LE will clear up less then 1 mil. Putting him in the AHL clears 1.1 mil without wasting a buyout. 

 

As far as Beagle or Rousell the savings are small and what will they replace them with? Another high priced vet?  

 

Other then Jake I don't see anyone who is really worth buying out.    Maybe Holtby but like I said Jim will just replace him with more of the same.

 

The thing we should all be very worried about is that Jim may trade our first or second to get rid of 1 year of LE.

 

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1 minute ago, mll said:

The cost to dump an LTIR contract is probably too high.  LTIR often doesn’t allow teams to spend up to the cap for their active roster.  It creates bonus overages and limits flexibility to recall players and add at the deadline. 

i'm so confused because tampa had a 90million playing roster this year. I believe if you have a player already on LTIR and trade for another LTIR player during the offseason  when the upper limit is 10% higher it does not adjust the ascl, allowing you to extend the 10% bonus into the season. that may  not be entirely true, but you can  circumvent the cap with LTIR players. it's how tampa and toronto did  it.

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11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think riding Holty next year is fine.

Yes we save 3.8 but we have to sign someone prob in the 1.5 range so it saves us 2.3

And then the 1.9 cap hit the following year is terrible.

 

What if Demko gets injured? 

Id rather Holtby take the starting position in the event of a Demko injury and having a vetl ike him as insurance is critical in a year where we need solid goaltending toget us in the playoffs.

 

its a bit expensive, but some teams are paying as much for a single goalie. And who knows, Seattle may take him. Either way its OK.

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45 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

even better. Tampa is already -5 mil for next year :shock:

 

I hope Beagle isn't done, but sending him and Ferland to Tampa for a bag of pucks makes complete sense for both teams. Even if Tampa manages to get Seattle to take TJ they still need cap room for Coleman and role players. 

Brisebois once explained how complicated it is to operate when in LTIR. 

 

LTIR does not create cap space.  It actually costs cap space to the regular roster.  The Canucks managed to lose only 10K but StLouis for example lost 300K this season - ie their regular roster was limited to 81.2M.  With a flat cap it could be quite expensive to move an LTIR contract.

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9 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I think we need to look at what has always been important to Jim.  The first thing he did was add a veteran goaltender. Depth at goal is one of his trade marks. Can Jim make himself be satisfied with Demko and a youthful backup? There is no use in buying out Holtby and then adding another verteran at 3 mil. If they buyout Holtby then they will need to be happy with youth or a cheep backup. Of coarse Holtby might go in ED. Big might.

Jake will be bought out if not terminated.  

 

LE will clear up less then 1 mil. Putting him in the AHL clears 1.1 mil without wasting a buyout. 

 

As far as Beagle or Rousell the savings are small and what will they replace them with? Another high priced vet?  

 

Other then Jake I don't see anyone who is really worth buying out.    Maybe Holtby but like I said Jim will just replace him with more of the same.

 

The thing we should all be very worried about is that Jim may trade our first or second to get rid of 1 year of LE.

 

I'm a JB fan but if we held onto Louie, lost Toffoli due to lack of capspace and then panic and trade Louie and a 1st in his final year while putting up with him for the last 3-4 years, I will drive JB to the airport myself 

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Just now, mll said:

Brisebois once explained how complicated it is to operate when in LTIR. 

 

LTIR does not create cap space.  It actually costs cap space to the regular roster.  The Canucks managed to lose only 10K but StLouis for example lost 300K this season - ie their regular roster was limited to 81.2M.  With a flat cap it could be quite expensive to move an LTIR contract.

thats true, but I don't see what options Tampa really has if they want to keep the band together. There's nothing stopping them from repeating what they did this year, particularly we we help them at no cost. Some teams will want a high price, but what if we unloaded two LTIR deals for an excess 7th rounder? 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

i'm so confused because tampa had a 90million playing roster this year. I believe if you have a player already on LTIR and trade for another LTIR player during the offseason  when the upper limit is 10% higher it does not adjust the ascl, allowing you to extend the 10% bonus into the season. that may  not be entirely true, but you can  circumvent the cap with LTIR players. it's how tampa and toronto did  it.

Toronto was at risk of losing some 4M in cap space.  They had kept space to sign Marner but couldn’t agree on a contract.  If he signed after the start of the season they could have lost the money saved to sign him and would have not been in position to add him.

 

Tampa didn’t have a 90M playing roster in the regular season.  Anything that exceeds the cap is only LTIR cap space - ie players who can’t play.  Their active roster was always below 81.5M.  In the post- season there is no cap counting and that’s why they were able to activate Kucherov.

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38 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Yeah, I get that Loui didn't work out here and I'm sure both sides regret the situation right now.

Acknowledging this, if the organization does that to Loui (send him to ECHL) good luck ever trying to sign a 'high profile' type UFA again.  A move like that would definitely be viewed by players/agents a punitive and no agent would be telling their clients to choose Vancouver in the future regardless of whether JB overpays or not. 

 

It's not an ideal situation, but if you punish the player (deservedly or not) it will send a message throughout the league in my view and that is not the reputation we want to have.  I get that there will be some who believe 'you get what you deserve' but players potentially thinking of signing here, moving their families and making this their home won't see it that way. 

I'm thinking most high profile players who want to come here will have the moral attitude that they need to play for the money they are receiving and if, in the final year of their contract, they are not even good enough to start for the team's AHL club then they would have the courtesy to consider retirement so that the club that paid you over $33 million dollars for mostly sub par performances can actually move forward and get some cap relief so they can build a competitive roster moving forward.  

 

Luongo didn't have an issue with retiring early.  So what is Loui's problem?  Did his wife spend all of his money?  Is his meatball business in Sweden going into the toilet?  Is he going to have to go on food stamps next year if he doesn't get his $3 million?  Is he not confident enough in his abilities to make up that $3 million by extending his career with another NHL team or by playing in Sweden?  If not, why ride the bus in Abbotsford for a year?  Is he that selfish of a human being?  The fact he would ride a bus and play in the AHL for a year instead of just retiring after collecting more than $33 million from the Canucks for 5 lousy years where he only scored a total of 38 goals says more about the true character of the player than the character of the team.

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2 minutes ago, mll said:

Brisebois once explained how complicated it is to operate when in LTIR. 

 

LTIR does not create cap space.  It actually costs cap space to the regular roster.  The Canucks managed to lose only 10K but StLouis for example lost 300K this season - ie their regular roster was limited to 81.2M.  With a flat cap it could be quite expensive to move an LTIR contract.

tampa traded a 2nd round pick ,brayden coburn and  paquette for 7.5m in LTIR players which gave them 1.7-1.075+ 1.2-1.075 =750k+7.5m in extra cap space because They did it with kucherov already on LTIR.  Which meant they could extend  the offseason 10% bonus into the season, because adding a player already on LTIR thats not on your team is a loophole because you don't have to recalculate the ascl.

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10 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I'm a JB fan but if we held onto Louie, lost Toffoli due to lack of capspace and then panic and trade Louie and a 1st in his final year while putting up with him for the last 3-4 years, I will drive JB to the airport myself 

If the owners want the playoffs at all cost then there sits 6 mil to spend. I will not be surprised that at least a second his used to get rid of LE a year early.

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27 minutes ago, mll said:

The cost to dump an LTIR contract is probably too high.  LTIR often doesn’t allow teams to spend up to the cap for their active roster.  It creates bonus overages and limits flexibility to recall players and add at the deadline. 

Yet we've seen teams do this almost every year.

16 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

i'm so confused because tampa had a 90million playing roster this year. I believe if you have a player already on LTIR and trade for another LTIR player during the offseason  when the upper limit is 10% higher it does not adjust the ascl, allowing you to extend the 10% bonus into the season. that may  not be entirely true, but you can  circumvent the cap with LTIR players. it's how tampa and toronto did  it.

 

This.

 

Nobody is suggesting it doesn't have it's down sides with cap management, but teams have and do, do this.

 

Less likely given how few teams are near the cap floor, but we've also see teams trade for these guys that have lower actual cash owed, that is also covered by insurance on LTIR vs their cap hits. 

 

I'm not suggesting this is a shoe in, but the possibility is out there.

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8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

thats true, but I don't see what options Tampa really has if they want to keep the band together. There's nothing stopping them from repeating what they did this year, particularly we we help them at no cost. Some teams will want a high price, but what if we unloaded two LTIR deals for an excess 7th rounder? 

 

 

Adding LTIR contracts is not going to allow them to keep the band together.  If anything it makes it more complicated.  It doen’t create cap space - it just makes it harder for teams to operate normally.

 

Teams have paid good assets to get rid of their LTIR contracts. 

 

Florida never put Ekblad on LTIR because they would have lost some 2M in cap space.  It’s not often possible to get the full relief so teams lose cap space plus lose their roster flexibility.  

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