CanucksJay Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said: He would have to be waived at the 1st buyout. In order to qualify for the 2nd buyout his AAV (annual average value) would have to be 4 mil or over. Holtby fills that requirement,; Virtanen does not. Wow Thanks for the infomration. Canucks should just hire you lol I wonder if the Caucks should just expose JV to the expansion draft and see where the chips fall If he doesnt get picked, we see what he has for 21-22 season and if it sucks, we let him go. He might be mired in legal trouble anyway and not even be able to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Thanks for the infomration. Canucks should just hire you lol LOL... Not the guy for that. I just do a lot of surfing on the net to gather the info I am interested in. Most of the rules and regulations ; if not all, are posted online. Just takes a bit of digging to find them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 4 hours ago, CanucksJay said: I think riding Holty next year is fine. Yes we save 3.8 but we have to sign someone prob in the 1.5 range so it saves us 2.3 And then the 1.9 cap hit the following year is terrible. What if Demko gets injured? Id rather Holtby take the starting position in the event of a Demko injury and having a vetl ike him as insurance is critical in a year where we need solid goaltending toget us in the playoffs. Exactly, I highly doubt JB buys him out after signing him short term just to save a bit of cap this year and double it the following year (backup + $1.9). JB also isn't the type of guy to just throw a complete question mark at the backup position. I don't think he's putting Demko in there with no net at all quite yet. Not only is he valuable down the stretch but you need a decent backup in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, CanucksJay said: Wow Thanks for the infomration. Canucks should just hire you lol I wonder if the Caucks should just expose JV to the expansion draft and see where the chips fall If he doesnt get picked, we see what he has for 21-22 season and if it sucks, we let him go. He might be mired in legal trouble anyway and not even be able to play He will be exposed and Seattle fans had him at the top of the list before his issues came up. Now Gads is the consensus target if we expose him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoosh Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 Without looking up the numbers I think we would be best off letting the existing contracts expire next year and ve way better positioned moving forward when Eriksson, Roussel, Holtby, Virtanen, Beagle and the Luongo penalty are done and we’d have no serious dead weight to drag along (contracts and money, not the people). Canuck fans don’t have the energy to wait it out but that would be my logic even if it hurts this next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddogy Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 I'm hoping that Seattle's management is under heavy pressure from ownership to make the playoffs ASAP. If so, then Seattle may consider taking Holtby or making a trade with Vancouver to expose Nate Schmidt for the picking. In hindsight, which is rarely a fair way to assess decisions, J.B. should have signed Chris Tanev and Tyler Toffoli instead of acquiring Nate Schmidt and resigning Jake Virtanen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 26, 2021 Author Share Posted May 26, 2021 5 hours ago, IBatch said: He will be exposed and Seattle fans had him at the top of the list before his issues came up. Now Gads is the consensus target if we expose him. If we protect Gads, are they taking Lind, Motte or McEwan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 26, 2021 Author Share Posted May 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Maddogy said: I'm hoping that Seattle's management is under heavy pressure from ownership to make the playoffs ASAP. If so, then Seattle may consider taking Holtby or making a trade with Vancouver to expose Nate Schmidt for the picking. In hindsight, which is rarely a fair way to assess decisions, J.B. should have signed Chris Tanev and Tyler Toffoli instead of acquiring Nate Schmidt and resigning Jake Virtanen. Hindsight is 20/20 but yes, we would most likely be in the playoffs if that was the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickly Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 29 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: Hindsight is 20/20 but yes, we would most likely be in the playoffs if that was the case That’s another hindsight 20/20 thought. Tanev has been exceptionally healthy the last two seasons which is an anomaly and there’s no certainty he would have stayed healthy in a Canucks jersey this season (Canuck luck) but to be fair Taffoli should have been most certainly re signed (I’ll never get over that) but reality is the way this season went the odds were heavily stacked against the Canucks and the playoffs were going to be really tough. Tanev got money and term that would have be frowned upon by a lot of the Canuck fans base and nobody complained when the Schmidt deal came through. The Virtanen experiment should have ended last offseason as he, aside from two games, was a no show in the playoffs and should have been sold high yet now good luck getting a bag of pucks for him. Never believed in Jake to break through as his off ice habits are widely known and concerning and have been for years. Schmidt I hope doesn’t get dealt as I believe he has a lot more to show in a Canuck uniform and is much better than what he showed this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 (edited) Virtanen and Roussel make the most sense. Maybe Loui instead of Roussel but I'm just hoping Loui leaves lol. Beagle is 35 so a buyout for him is near impossible. Edited May 26, 2021 by Rush17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said: He would have to be waived at the 1st buyout. In order to qualify for the 2nd buyout his AAV (annual average value) would have to be 4 mil or over. Holtby fills that requirement,; Virtanen does not. The 2nd buyout window only opens up if the Canucks have a player that files for arbitration. The arbitration filing happens after the start of free agency and the 1st buyout window will be closed by then. They might not want to risk that 2nd window not opening up and/or missing in free agency if they intend to replace Holtby. Would expect teams to buyout players only after the expansion draft on the odd chance that a buyout candidate gets picked. A buyout ahead of expansion would probably only be NMC players who refuse to waive to be exposed. Edited May 26, 2021 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, Rush17 said: Virtanen and Roussel make the most sense. Maybe Loui instead of Roussel but I'm just hoping Loui leaves lol. Beagle is 35 so a buyout for him is near impossible. That age 35 rule where the AAV stays on the books is only for contacts that start after the player is 35. Beagle was younger than 35 when he signed his contract and can be bought out like any standard contract. The buyout cap hit would be 2.2M followed by 400K. There is more cap relief to bury him in the AHL where 1.875M would be on the books vs 2.2M for a buyout. Cap wise it might also be better to bury Roussel than to buy him out. His buyout cap hit is 1.733M followed by 633K vs 1 year buried at 1.875M. Ownership might prefer the salary savings of a buyout though and they might also not want to send these vets to the AHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 2 hours ago, CanucksJay said: If we protect Gads, are they taking Lind, Motte or McEwan? One of those three can still be protected in addition to Gads. Based on future potential, I'm hoping it's Lind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 7 hours ago, mll said: The 2nd buyout window only opens up if the Canucks have a player that files for arbitration. Interesting... Not sure that was mentioned in the section that I was reading. (edit) After re-reading the section I was going by; I realized that I assumed that the 2nd window opened up on the same day the roster freeze was lifted... my assumption was incorrect. So... Holtby would have to be exposed on the 1st buyout window if they wanted to expose him? Doubt they would do that but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 20 hours ago, CanucksJay said: Can the Canucks have an agreement with Louie to hire him as a European Scout if he happens to retire for the same amount owed for 21-22 season? He would be one of the highest paid scouts lol THis then could backfire like the Luongo debacle cited for cap cirumvention unless we take Louie's lost earnings next year and spread that over 3 years to give him a 3 year contract as a scout You think the league won’t enact a rule later to prevent this and grandfather said rule to penalize the Canucks? Nah, they’ve never done that before. Cough, cough, the Luongo rule. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 26, 2021 Author Share Posted May 26, 2021 7 hours ago, mll said: That age 35 rule where the AAV stays on the books is only for contacts that start after the player is 35. Beagle was younger than 35 when he signed his contract and can be bought out like any standard contract. The buyout cap hit would be 2.2M followed by 400K. There is more cap relief to bury him in the AHL where 1.875M would be on the books vs 2.2M for a buyout. Cap wise it might also be better to bury Roussel than to buy him out. His buyout cap hit is 1.733M followed by 633K vs 1 year buried at 1.875M. Ownership might prefer the salary savings of a buyout though and they might also not want to send these vets to the AHL. How does the buried contracts work? I understand buyout is either 1/3 or 2/3 of contract (depending on over/under 25) x double the length of remaining contract . Is there a formula for burying in the AHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted May 26, 2021 Author Share Posted May 26, 2021 49 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: You think the league won’t enact a rule later to prevent this and grandfather said rule to penalize the Canucks? Nah, they’ve never done that before. Cough, cough, the Luongo rule. LOL thats why I mentioned the Luongo cap hit. I still can't believe we didnt fight it and just laid there and took it. Any lawyer worth half his salt would have shredded that in court. The only explanation can be...maybe the league actually has evidence of cap circumvention like an email or conversation or a witness and thats why both sides are being pretty quiet about it. Maybe Luongo admitted to it and thats why he retired instead of going on LTIR. He left more than enough money on the board when he could have blamed any of his nagging injuries and went LTIR / Retired and gotten paid the full amount. The story doesnt just add up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: How does the buried contracts work? I understand buyout is either 1/3 or 2/3 of contract (depending on over/under 25) x double the length of remaining contract . Is there a formula for burying in the AHL? Yeah it's league minimum plus 375K (so 1.125 million right now) that is taken off a player's cap hit when they're sent to the minors. If their cap hit is lower than 1.125 million, it all comes off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 22 hours ago, CR7 said: Eriksson in Abbotsford only cost us an extra $875,000 and nothing next year. Since he wont retire he can play, or not, on the farm. As for the rest, JV buyout/terminate. Beagle, still think he is a good 4th line center. Roussel, buyout. Holtby trade if possible, if not offer the Kraken incentive to take off our hands. Next years lineup, JB has a lot of holes to fill... Miller Petey Boeser Hoglander Horvat Podz Pearson **** ------ Motte Beagle Hughes ****** Schmidt ****** Rathbone Myers Demko DePietro IMHO Depietro is not ready to be an NHL backup, i would love to be proven wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 1 hour ago, CanucksJay said: LOL thats why I mentioned the Luongo cap hit. I still can't believe we didnt fight it and just laid there and took it. Any lawyer worth half his salt would have shredded that in court. The only explanation can be...maybe the league actually has evidence of cap circumvention like an email or conversation or a witness and thats why both sides are being pretty quiet about it. Maybe Luongo admitted to it and thats why he retired instead of going on LTIR. He left more than enough money on the board when he could have blamed any of his nagging injuries and went LTIR / Retired and gotten paid the full amount. The story doesnt just add up Luongo just wanted to give the canucks and the organization one last middle finger before he was gone. Hes an as*hole thats y he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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