Aggressive offseason

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, tas said:

benning has no guile. he's as honest and transparent an exec as there is out there. he doesn't have what it takes to tell a bald faced lie to the cameras. 

Why do you believe Benning don't tell bald faced lies to the cameras?

Is it because you think he's stupid?

A GM or even a scout that can't tell a bald faced lie should take a job as a meter maid or something like that.

If you don't mean that bald faced liars send people to their deaths... If so there would be very few GMs or scouts in that category.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, tas said:

benning has no guile. he's as honest and transparent an exec as there is out there. he doesn't have what it takes to tell a bald faced lie to the cameras. 

He misleads in a different way though. He leaves out context on a regular basis. 

 

The Tryamkin comments are a good example. What he said to the press was technically true - that he was willing to give Tryamkin what he asked for - but he left out the context wd got ftom Tryamkins agent later. Namely that to get what he asked for, Tryamkin would have to wait for Benning to try to clear cap.

 

Benning regularly does this. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He misleads in a different way though. He leaves out context on a regular basis. 

 

The Tryamkin comments are a good example. What he said to the press was technically true - that he was willing to give Tryamkin what he asked for - but he left out the context wd got ftom Tryamkins agent later. Namely that to get what he asked for, Tryamkin would have to wait for Benning to try to clear cap.

 

Benning regularly does this. 

Thats not true.

 

he said himself, that he couldn't give him what he asked for until a later date, IE internal cap.

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

 

I realize this is from posts back on the first page, but come on. With all due respect, you guys are living in a revisionist bubble. 

PureCool,  there was a third option between do nothing and being overly aggressive, its being smart.  Being creative. Take advantage of other teams cap dilemmas. Doing something that no CDCer even thought about or didn't have the inside knowledge to know it was even possible.  That's why JB gets paid the big bucks.

 

Dazzle, to say that Jim's plan to turn the team around quickly failed because "he underestimated how poorly he'd do it" is hilarious. Are you serious?  I'll have to try that one the next time I get in trouble for mismanaging a multi million dollar company.

 

"I think the whole idea of 'rebuilding' wasn't really a popular idea among fans."

 

Mayor of wrongville.  Firstly, a GM should never base the need for a rebuild based on how popular it is among fans. On top of that, there was no more knowledgeable, timely, and willing a teams fan base was for a proper rebuild than in Jim's first few years.  He didn't take advantage of that.  But even IF it would have been unpopular, so what?  Tell that to Wally Buono. Was he worried about Geroy Simon's feelings when he was traded away just before his decline? Or fan's reaction?  In fact didn't Geroy even forgive that move, and come back later and be a part of the organization?  I'll bet that even if the Sedin's were told they would be shopped, and pressured to drop their NTCs at the time, they'd still have retained close ties to the city and returned as well.

 

You can't blame Gillis for everything.  His drafting was terrible under Delorme. He's admitted his biggest mistake was not cleaning house in the amateur drafting department.   But he was also running a team at the peak of a window in the last years of his term.  An actual scenario every GM would like to see played out.   Not a time to be hording draft picks over adding final pieces. Handing out NTCs and term was the price to pay to put a Cup-competitive team on the ice.

 

"Gillis was unable to develop a single defenseman from his time period."

 

Tanev says hi. But more to the point, what about Benning's time period?  Gillis was here for six years. Benning has been on the job for SEVEN years,....and counting.  Who on D has he developed?  Stecher? Joulevi?  Picking Mcavoy  or Sergachev over Olli, might have helped.

 

"But Benning is responsible for making promises he couldn't keep"  

YES!  Why wouldn't he be? Especially if it is not just a single time he's not met his own criteria, but a pattern.  And especially when dealing with such an important position on a Canadian hockey team for Canadian hockey fans.  And it goes beyond being responsible for those promises, it is more about his judgment in making those promises in the first place, and running the team from that base of bad judgment year after year, compounding the problem. 

 

And now we must rely on the one who's made the mess, to clean it up. I hope that works, I really do.  Doesn't look like the Aquilini's are going to add any oversight to him once again. No new voices. Lets face it, the Sedins, if hired, will be there for publicity to help save the team's image.  If Linden was shut out from any influence, as President, no way Henrik and Danny will get anywhere close to having any say in the Jim n Doug show. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, Kilgore, the time frames are similar between Gillis and Benning. However, you are making excuses for Gillis. Gillis did not produce ANY draft picks that turned into prospects, aside from Horvat and Hutton. Meanwhile, Let's see what Benning drafted (and ended up being somebody).

 

Hughes - high first round pick. Closest comparison - Horvat? Obtained through trading Schneider. Oh, Schneider was a very late first round pick by Nonis.

Pettersson - high first round pick

Boeser - 23rd overall. Closest comparison is probably Gaunce or Jensen. Neither of whom panned out under Gillis.

Demko -> self explanatory. NOT a first round pick. 2nd round pick. Shinkaruk? Injuries derailed his career

Rathbone -> lucky pick?

Gadj - promising 2nd rounder. 

Lind - another promising 2nd rounder.

Juolevi - still a prospect, showing lots of promise, injury plagued. High first round pick.

Forsling - traded away for Glendenning who was an AHL all-star, but did not pan out.

Jared McCann - good pick, late in the 1st round, but player did not become who he is today after several new teams.

Gaudette - good pick no matter how you slice it. Just didn't fit the team anymore.

Woo - promising 2nd rounder.

Podkolzin - high 1st round pick.

Lockwood - promising prospect.
Jasek - looks like a steal. Another prospect.

 

Then we have Gillis who had Grabner. Similar situation to McCann, but Gillis essentially traded 2 first round picks (Grabner being one of these) for Ballard. Sure, that other 1st rounder ended up being Quinton Howden (a bust for FLA), but Ballard was obviously a cap dump by Florida. Inflated numbers playing with offensive D campbell. Oh and was bought out later. Sure, Ballard had a use for one year, but AV did not trust him in the playoffs, at all.

 

Tanev - sure. Free agent signing. Equivalent in terms of pro scouting? Stecher? Not exact obviously.

 

As for your denial that fans were ready for a rebuild: the Canucks lost the cup in 2011 from Game 7. You're telling me people were willing to dismantle fan favourites like Kesler, Burrows etc after two years? Look at St. Louis right now. They had won a cup 2 years ago, and now have been eliminated twice in a row. Do you think fans want them to rebuild? Basically trading off pieces like Tarasenko, etc etc.?

 

JB did underestimate how good he'd turn the team around. The problems left behind by Gillis were far worse than what most people want to admit. Clearly, you are one of these people, Kilgore.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Dazzle

[AV.]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:46 PM, 24K PureCool said:

Jim is in a no win situation here.

 

Do nothing and let the bad contract run out will have the fanbase up in arms over 2 playoffs in 8 years.

 

Be aggressive and have the fanbase up in arms about mortgaging the future, cap space, no plan, asset management, etc. 

 

Unless the team wins the cup, not even a conference final will satisfy a good portion of the fanbase with complaints of one and done.

 

Good.

 

Maybe if he built a more sustainable team through the draft, didn't trade picks and prospects like candy, didn't sign a bunch of deadwood, etc., we wouldn't be in this mess.

[AV.]

Legit.lolin.rn at the Benning doesn't know how to tell a lie.  Uhhh, that's literally all he does.

 

Benning and Weisbrod have a conveyor belt of excuses for everything.  That's the one good thing they're good at lmfao.

[wallstreetamigo]

32 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

Thats not true.

 

he said himself, that he couldn't give him what he asked for until a later date, IE internal cap.

And Tryamkins agent said Benning's offer was actually much lower. So he had not agreed to it, he had actually offered much less.

 

Considering Benning screwed over Tryamkin the year before making him wait until he could clear cap (which Benning couldnt do) he wasnt willing to take lower to sign and did not want to wait again.

 

Benning then tried to mislead everyone into blaming Tryamkin wanting to play in Russia which was refuted by Diamond.

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

Tryamkin will sign as a ufa and play in the nhl after his commitment time as an rfa with the Canucks is over.

 

There was trade interest in him but Benning let him go for nothing.

Edited May 27, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[AV.]

18 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

So, Kilgore, the time frames are similar between Gillis and Benning. However, you are making excuses for Gillis. Gillis did not produce ANY draft picks that turned into prospects, aside from Horvat and Hutton. Meanwhile, Let's see what Benning drafted (and ended up being somebody).

 

Hughes - high first round pick. Closest comparison - Horvat? Obtained through trading Schneider. Oh, Schneider was a very late first round pick by Nonis.

Pettersson - high first round pick

Boeser - 23rd overall. Closest comparison is probably Gaunce or Jensen. Neither of whom panned out under Gillis.

Demko -> self explanatory. NOT a first round pick. 2nd round pick. Shinkaruk? Injuries derailed his career

Rathbone -> lucky pick?

Gadj - promising 2nd rounder. 

Lind - another promising 2nd rounder.

Juolevi - still a prospect, showing lots of promise, injury plagued. High first round pick.

Forsling - traded away for Glendenning who was an AHL all-star, but did not pan out.

Jared McCann - good pick, late in the 1st round, but player did not become who he is today after several new teams.

Gaudette - good pick no matter how you slice it. Just didn't fit the team anymore.

Woo - promising 2nd rounder.

Podkolzin - high 1st round pick.

Lockwood - promising prospect.
Jasek - looks like a steal. Another prospect.

 

Then we have Gillis who had Grabner. Similar situation to McCann, but Gillis essentially traded 2 first round picks (Grabner being one of these) for Ballard. Sure, that other 1st rounder ended up being Quinton Howden (a bust for FLA), but Ballard was obviously a cap dump by Florida. Inflated numbers playing with offensive D campbell. Oh and was bought out later. Sure, Ballard had a use for one year, but AV did not trust him in the playoffs, at all.

 

Tanev - sure. Free agent signing. Equivalent in terms of pro scouting? Stecher? Not exact obviously.

 

As for your denial that fans were ready for a rebuild: the Canucks lost the cup in 2011 from Game 7. You're telling me people were willing to dismantle fan favourites like Kesler, Burrows etc after two years? Look at St. Louis right now. They had won a cup 2 years ago, and now have been eliminated twice in a row. Do you think fans want them to rebuild? Basically trading off pieces like Tarasenko, etc etc.?

 

JB did underestimate how good he'd turn the team around. The problems left behind by Gillis were far worse than what most people want to admit. Clearly, you are one of these people, Kilgore.

It's pretty amazing that Ballard had inflated numbers "playing with Campbell" considering that Campbell was on the Blackhawks until the end of the 2011 season.

 

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

And Tryamkins agent said Benning's offer was actually much lower. So he had not agreed to it, he had actually offered much less.

 

Considering Benning screwed over Tryamkin the year before making him wait until he could clear cap (which Benning couldnt do) he wasnt willing to take lower to sign and did not want to wait again.

 

Benning then tried to mislead everyone into blaming Tryamkin wanting to play in Russia which was refuted by Diamond.

 

 

JB screwed over trymalkin? JB dont owe trymakin a damn thing. He was a flyer 6th round pick  that didnt wanna be in the NHL anymore so he left instead of earning a pay raise by dedicatibg himself to the team instead of flying back to russia. Its a privilege to play in the NHL and id rather have someone actually commit to the team and city instead of that bum who did jack sh*t for us. Plus hes not even good 

[AV.]

Just now, Bertuzzipunch said:

JB screwed over trymalkin? JB dont owe trymakin a damn thing. He was a flyer 6th round pick  that didnt wanna be in the NHL anymore so he left instead of earning a pay raise by dedicatibg himself to the team instead of flying back to russia. Its a privilege to play in the NHL and id rather have someone actually commit to the team and city instead of that bum who did jack sh*t for us. Plus hes not even good 

He was a Canucks 3rd pick, not a Flyers 6th.

[Bertuzzipunch]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

He was a Canucks 3rd pick, not a Flyers 6th.

Watever same thing, played like a 6th

[Bad_BOI_pete]

9 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

And Tryamkins agent said Benning's offer was actually much lower. So he had not agreed to it, he had actually offered much less.

 

Considering Benning screwed over Tryamkin the year before making him wait until he could clear cap (which Benning couldnt do) he wasnt willing to take lower to sign and did not want to wait again.

 

Benning then tried to mislead everyone into blaming Tryamkin wanting to play in Russia which was refuted by Diamond.

 

 

i don't care. i just wanted to point out your lie

[flickyoursedin]

5 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Watever same thing, played like a 6th

Almost same thing but when I was wanting Benning to pick Brayden Point and he took an overager Tryamkin in the 3rd that sucked. I’m big on any player that can lead his team in points by a pretty sizeable margin.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Tryamkin will sign as a ufa and play in the nhl after his commitment time as an rfa with the Canucks is over.

 

There was trade interest in him but Benning let him go for nothing.

no one believes your story. if he really wanted to play in the NHL he would  have requested a trade, instead of waiting for a trade he, immiadiately signed a contract with the khl.

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................... what more believable.

 

also i thought it was pretty funny to accuse benning of lying by withholding context (failing miserably at it) and ironically you lie about the situation by withholding context.

 

some peoples kids.

[Bertuzzipunch]

5 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

Almost same thing but when I was wanting Benning to pick Brayden Point and he took an overager Tryamkin in the 3rd that sucked. I’m big on any player that can lead his team in points by a pretty sizeable margin.

Yes bad pick, screw tryamkin. 

[wallstreetamigo]

12 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

JB screwed over trymalkin? JB dont owe trymakin a damn thing. He was a flyer 6th round pick  that didnt wanna be in the NHL anymore so he left instead of earning a pay raise by dedicatibg himself to the team instead of flying back to russia. Its a privilege to play in the NHL and id rather have someone actually commit to the team and city instead of that bum who did jack sh*t for us. Plus hes not even good 

Then why was Benning even talking to him about signing him rather than just trading him?

 

He screwed him over last year and this year really. He was trying to commit to the team but Benning couldnt find the cap to sign him. Whether on the roster or traded for other assets, good GM's dont throw away found money.

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

no one believes your story. if he really wanted to play in the NHL he would  have requested a trade, instead of waiting for a trade he, immiadiately signed a contract with the khl.

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................... what more believable.

 

also i thought it was pretty funny to accuse benning of lying by withholding context (failing miserably at it) and ironically you lie about the situation by withholding context.

 

some peoples kids.

What leverage did he have to demand a trade? He is an RFA. Benning had no obligation to trade him and didnt do so even when he had the chance to. Not sure if you understand leverage or not but Tryamkin demanding a trade had none.

 

Benning is notorious for witholding context. He generally says one small piece of the story that is true without context then goes on a long tangent about unrelated stuff to fill in the dead air. Go ahead, listen to basically every interview he has ever done. 

 

Listen to him answer the question on 650 about players being unhappy about the covid stuff. Its a great example of a non context snswef followed by a long, unrelated, haphazard rant.

Edited May 27, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[wallstreetamigo]

Benning is a terrible liar straight up. But he is good at contextless answers with just enough truth to fool his supporters.

[appleboy]

10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Benning is a terrible liar straight up. But he is good at contextless answers with just enough truth to fool his supporters.

I wish he was that smart.