Aggressive offseason

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

Jim is in a no win situation here.

 

Do nothing and let the bad contract run out will have the fanbase up in arms over 2 playoffs in 8 years.

 

Be aggressive and have the fanbase up in arms about mortgaging the future, cap space, no plan, asset management, etc. 

 

Unless the team wins the cup, not even a conference final will satisfy a good portion of the fanbase with complaints of one and done.

 

For sure he's going to have to start praying a lot, make some witchcraft, consult the irish druids or something to get himself out of this one.    Know he's trying, often hear he's one of the hardest working GMs phone wise.    And that he didn't muck it up last off season which for sure was the easy route.  

 

The deck is stacked against him, and it's a deck he's mostly made for himself.   The core is and unity from top to bottom has saved his job.    Going to take a small miracle to not mortgage much of the future to give the roster a chance at making the playoffs and winning a round or two and gain more of the fan bases trust.   Some people just don't like being wrong and admitting it.  

 

For me at least feel he's done enough to earn the right to see it through.   But if i had to make a bet on it, the odds are higher he ends up becoming the next Burke/Nonis rolled up into one, and some other lucky chump gets to come in , look like a hero spending the cap space and putting the finishing touches on this team.    Just hope he has the stomach to finish what he started by not going with the same team that got bullied, outplayed etc by Vegas.   If he did i'd have given up on him already. 

 

Like to see what he can do in a position of power.    That time is coming, doubt next year, probably the following one and thereafter for a stretch of 3-8 years. 

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

For sure he's going to have to start praying a lot, make some witchcraft, consult the irish druids or something to get himself out of this one.    Know he's trying, often hear he's one of the hardest working GMs phone wise.    And that he didn't muck it up last off season which for sure was the easy route.  

 

The deck is stacked against him, and it's a deck he's mostly made for himself.   The core is and unity from top to bottom has saved his job.    Going to take a small miracle to not mortgage much of the future to give the roster a chance at making the playoffs and winning a round or two and gain more of the fan bases trust.   Some people just don't like being wrong and admitting it.  

 

For me at least feel he's done enough to earn the right to see it through.   But if i had to make a bet on it, the odds are higher he ends up becoming the next Burke/Nonis rolled up into one, and some other lucky chump gets to come in , look like a hero spending the cap space and putting the finishing touches on this team.    Just hope he has the stomach to finish what he started by not going with the same team that got bullied, outplayed etc by Vegas.   If he did i'd have given up on him already. 

 

Like to see what he can do in a position of power.    That time is coming, doubt next year, probably the following one and thereafter for a stretch of 3-8 years. 

 

just because Jim wants to be aggressive it doesn't mean another GM will bite on whatever Jim is selling. The only thing within his power is buyouts, so we know at least Jake is toasted, maybe Loui.

 

Outside of that, does "aggressive" mean trading prospects like Woo or Lind? picks? god I hope not. 

 

Does it mean exposing big salary like Myers or Schmidt to Seattle? maybe, but then we still need to go replace that.

 

I suspect all we may see is the buyouts and another press conference saying "we tried." Thats kind of the bar I have for this. 

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

Yeah im not expecting much till next offseason. Just get the petey and quinn contracts done asap.

[JM_]

Would CDC set its collective hair on fire if Jim traded down in the draft? 

 

What if we could convince NJ to take Loui's full cap hit to swap the 21 and 9 spots this draft? we still get a good prospect, and have the cap room for improving the top 9 or d. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Would CDC set its collective hair on fire if Jim traded down in the draft? 

 

What if we could convince NJ to take Loui's full cap hit to swap the 21 and 9 spots this draft? we still get a good prospect, and have the cap room for improving the top 9 or d. 

I wouldnt tbh opening up 6 mill of cap space would be so huge for the team. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

For sure he's going to have to start praying a lot, make some witchcraft, consult the irish druids or something to get himself out of this one.    Know he's trying, often hear he's one of the hardest working GMs phone wise.    And that he didn't muck it up last off season which for sure was the easy route.  

 

The deck is stacked against him, and it's a deck he's mostly made for himself.   The core is and unity from top to bottom has saved his job.    Going to take a small miracle to not mortgage much of the future to give the roster a chance at making the playoffs and winning a round or two and gain more of the fan bases trust.   Some people just don't like being wrong and admitting it.  

 

For me at least feel he's done enough to earn the right to see it through.   But if i had to make a bet on it, the odds are higher he ends up becoming the next Burke/Nonis rolled up into one, and some other lucky chump gets to come in , look like a hero spending the cap space and putting the finishing touches on this team.    Just hope he has the stomach to finish what he started by not going with the same team that got bullied, outplayed etc by Vegas.   If he did i'd have given up on him already. 

 

Like to see what he can do in a position of power.    That time is coming, doubt next year, probably the following one and thereafter for a stretch of 3-8 years. 

I think the pressure will be ramped up if Seattle starts out of the gate well.  At this point, before even the expansion draft, let alone the offseason not even starting yet, it’s tough to say how bad or good Seattle will be.  

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

I wouldnt tbh opening up 6 mill of cap space would be so huge for the team. 

If NJ drops in the lotto, I could see it. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

If NJ drops in the lotto, I could see it. 

Does jersey have 2 first rnd picks this year?

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Does jersey have 2 first rnd picks this year?

yup, pre-lotto 4th and also 21st. 

 

I wouldn't make that drop for anything less than taking Loui's full hit though. 

 

I'm not suggesting it, just thinking what "aggressive" might actually mean. If Jim thinks he can add Reinhart or Hamilton by a move like this I think he tries for it. 

[canuckster19]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup, pre-lotto 4th and also 21st. 

 

I wouldn't make that drop for anything less than taking Loui's full hit though. 

 

I'm not suggesting it, just thinking what "aggressive" might actually mean. If Jim thinks he can add Reinhart or Hamilton by a move like this I think he tries for it. 

Is that dips. really going to stick around for another million dollars?

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

Is that dips. really going to stick around for another million dollars?

it 1 mil bonus + 3 mil salary, so yup

[kanucks25]

40 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Would CDC set its collective hair on fire if Jim traded down in the draft? 

 

What if we could convince NJ to take Loui's full cap hit to swap the 21 and 9 spots this draft? we still get a good prospect, and have the cap room for improving the top 9 or d. 

I wouldn't be opposed to it given we are replacing that cap with the right player.

 

If it's more 30+ bottom-6ers then please no.

 

If it's someone that is going to be a top-half of the lineup/core player for years to come then for sure I'd look at that.

 

I hope to god Benning doesn't spend assets to clear space just to bolster the lineup in the short-term in an effort to save his job.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I wouldn't be opposed to it given we are replacing that cap with the right player.

 

If it's more 30+ bottom-6ers then please no.

 

If it's someone that is going to be a top-half of the lineup/core player for years to come then for sure I'd look at that.

 

I hope to god Benning doesn't spend assets to clear space just to bolster the lineup in the short-term in an effort to save his job.

I don't see it, if Aqulini hasn't got rid of him now I don't think he's really on the hot seat, they seem to have a good relationship.

 

Was just going over the cap friendly teams with extra 1sts, and NJ seems to me like the only candidate with two AND has the cap space to take Loui (or equivalent). 

 

If there's a deal to be made that involves dropping down for cap clearance thats it, as far as I can see. 

 

I'd be pissed if we traded the 1st just for cap space tho, dropping from 9 to 21 should be enough benefit to make something happen. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[kanucks25]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't see it, if Aqulini hasn't got rid of him now I don't think he's really on the hot seat, they seem to have a good relationship.

I don't know if it's that black and white. There could be other factors, such as:

- no other prime GM candidates are available/interested

- financial reasons (Aqua doesn't want to pay two GMs for two years)

- Aqua has been advised by whoever that we probably aren't going to be legit contenders for the next two years, so might as well have Benning take the fall for that

 

Or perhaps a combination of these things.

 

I'm not saying it's not possible that Aqua is fully behind Benning but, who knows with this franchise, really.

 

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

I'd be pissed if we traded the 1st just for cap space tho, dropping from 9 to 21 should be enough benefit to make something happen. 

I get where you're coming from but I've always been a proponent of keeping cap space open, especially if you're not intending on truly contending, because you never know what opportunities are out there. The Toews trade last year, for example. Or even the Schmidt trade we made, although it's not exactly the same considering we lost Tanev because of it.

[BCNate]

-Buyout JV and Holtby

-Bring in two top 9 forwards

-Bring in Stable Defensive RHD 

-Get cheap backup

-Potentially trade Schmidt to free up space to make all of this work. I like Schmidt, but we may be able to find a better defensive fit for cheaper, and get a solid asset in return.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I don't know if it's that black and white. There could be other factors, such as:

- no other prime GM candidates are available/interested

- financial reasons (Aqua doesn't want to pay two GMs for two years)

- Aqua has been advised by whoever that we probably aren't going to be legit contenders for the next two years, so might as well have Benning take the fall for that

 

Or perhaps a combination of these things.

 

I'm not saying it's not possible that Aqua is fully behind Benning but, who knows with this franchise, really.

 

I get where you're coming from but I've always been a proponent of keeping cap space open, especially if you're not intending on truly contending, because you never know what opportunities are out there. The Toews trade last year, for example. Or even the Schmidt trade we made, although it's not exactly the same considering we lost Tanev because of it.

If we were still stuck with Loui for more than next year, maybe burn the 1st. Like Edmonton with Neal, e.g. But we just can't afford not to have a 1st round pick again this year.

[drofssalg]

Hoping Benning is all bluster and nothing turns out to actually happen. While not a popular take, Benning needs to just ride out this offseason and into next season. Don't buy anyone out, don't trade away picks or prospects to protect someone from Seattle or get rid of a LE or Holtby. Just let 21/22 be the year where the bad contracts expire. If he were to just communicate that clearly to the fan base - admit the errors and let people know that 21/22 is going to be a challenging year with the 22/23 offseason being where change can happen.  

 

The other reality is making trades - with what? The Canucks depth is not as good as many profess. Holtby, Beagle, Roussel, Virtanen and Eriksson are all negative value. The assets of value are the assets the Canucks want to keep (Hughes, Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Rathbone). I don't see MacEwen, Gadjovich, Lind, Lockwood, Juolevi, Rafferty getting much in return. And draft picks should be off the table. That leaves Miller and Schmidt - Miller will get a great return, Schmidt not so much. So Benning wanting to be aggressive and actually able to be aggressive likely do not align. 

 

A wild thought to me would be seeing if New Jersey would take Quinn Hughes for Ty Smith and the Islanders first round pick that Jersey has. That buys the Canucks 2 seasons of entry level contract plus a first rounder. Likely an unpopular idea but I would take that. I would also look to trade Miller. I am more inclined to keep building as I believe this team does not have the pieces yet to be a contender and when Miller is up for a new contract he won't be affordable with Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes taking up some serious cap space. His high trade value is now - he is a point a game, play driver with a great contract. I would try to trade Ferland's contract to the Leafs to give them some LTIR space (in reality the Canucks will need that LTIR space).

 

I think the Canucks need at least two more good drafts - this year and next - to shore up the prospect pool. So being a competitive team that misses the playoffs next season is a win to me. Benning just needs to not trade away those picks. Here's to hoping he plays the long game and stays patient. 

[Fanuck]

4 minutes ago, drofssalg said:

 Here's to hoping he plays the long game and stays patient. 

It's been seven years, how much of a 'long-game' are we talking here?  

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, khay said:

We should model our retool around Blues and Bruins (as I alluded to in another thread).

 

I somehow don't think this is the offseason to be overly aggressive. This offseason should be to fill major holes and continue to infuse the youth. 

 

We have an asset in the form of 9th overall pick (or 10th) and Schmidt to hopefully fill major hole on RD and 3C.

 

I'd first explore to see if any young RD is available due to Seattle expansion. I highly highly doubt he'd be available but maybe a player like Cernak? I'd be willing to part with a #9 overall for a young RD that can be part of the core for years to come. But I doubt Tampa trades Cernak -- I'm guessing they will protect him and expose Foote or McDonagh. If they trade Cernak, they still need to expose one of Foot/McDonagh, which means they lose two defencemen rather than one.

 

If nothing comes up, make a pick at #9, who knows if we will get our Dougie Hamilton at #9.

 

And then look into the UFA and trade market for RD and 3C.

 

There are some decent RD options as well as 3C in the UFA market.

 

I actually like Phillip Danault, if we can clear enough cap he could be a 3C?

 

There are some issues on wing but I think those are a bit easier to fill than 3C and RD.

 

Not that McDonagh is a bad player but he is getting up there and they'd likely happily clear his cap (given how over they are). But as of right now they're likely losing Foote to Sea.

 

Not ideal if your Tampa.

 

If we moved them say an ED exempt Woo + for Cernak, allowing them to protect Foote and expose McDonagh (and adding his cap)... They might just bite.

 

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Outside of that, does "aggressive" mean trading prospects like Woo or Lind? picks? god I hope not. 

Don't be so hasty. Depends on what the return is. As outlined above, Woo+ for Cernak I do in a heartbeat (as long as the '+' isn't overwhelming).

 

If we can upgrade on Lind, I make that move too (though less likely given he's not ED exempt like Woo).

[Devron]

I think aggressive means. Buyout Loui, maybe another player. A hockey trade for a top 9 player and a couple depth signings. I don’t expect it to be crazy but I could be wrong