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Attn..The Patience-Queue Starts Here

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2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

A few random musings, & I'll get to the gist.

 

Lots of things went wrong this 56 gamer. No prob..a good time to pocket another nice pick or two.

I hope the twins get into our FO. Devoted, intelligent & trustworthy. Great for the org; & reinforces we were correct to have them play out their careers/stay in Van-city.

 

IF there's no PO's next season? Are you okay with this, as a Canucks fan?

I would be, provided the bulk of our youth keep showing progress. If there are reasons like an insane sched, Covid or mass injuries, I'll understand.

Now should there be a lack of tangible, measurable progress, with no apparent, outside contributing factors, I'd prob be open to JB moving on.

 

But in general, I'm patient with this bunch(realizing their youth), & quite optimistic for the coming decade of Canucks hockey. I'd like to see about a decade of JB at the podium(2014-2024) then hopefully the baton will be handed off to the twins, & perhaps 1 or 2 other exp'd fellows, who are trusted in the Van/BC puck-scene.

 

Get in line if you're a patient Nucks-backer. If it's GOTTA' be Hell-on-wheels next yr, then perhaps this thread ain't for you?..

Funny thing about patience. It requires time.

Many of us have been patient for 51 years of that time. We deserve metals for our patience.

For decades, Vancouver GMs have preached patience and talk of the future, using it as a type of currency against the fans. Unfortunately, that future never arrives. No Vancouver management regime has been able to deliver.

Mike Gillis came the closest but alas, fate, once again, chose Vancouver to wear the badge of failure on it's chest..

So, off with Gillis' head and hail JB as the savior of Vancouver fans everywhere. Let the ", retool," begin.

Unfortunately, this strategy also cost more time and required more patience as the Sedins proved too slow to be effective in the new age NHL as age took hold of them. Milking every ounce of Sedinery ownership could get, proved costly in time and required, yet, more patience.

Brutal signings and a couple big gaffs at the draft have cost even more time. 

After seven years of vision shifts, inadequae leadership and, at times, outright unprofessional behavior, patience is still the medallion Vancouver fans must wear around their necks like a St. Christopher pendent, giving us the will and hope that we will, one day, find the legendary chalice that is the Stanley Cup.

Patience is a virtuous thing but it is a standard that requires results to be satisfied. Those results have not come after, more then adequate time (51 years) to produce them.

Therefore, it is fair that some of us more grizzled fans be allowed a little impatience and start to expect said results.

 

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4 hours ago, Provost said:

If there was a consistent direction that had been building over the years towards an identity I would be fine to see it continue.

 

Unfortunately it has largely been reactionary moves since day 1.

 

We want to compete quickly... so let’s sign some veterans... wait we want to get younger... wait we need some veterans to insulate the kids... we will be good in a couple of years... we need some size and toughness... no wait, we need more speed and skill... players need to earn their ice time.... well not these particular guys they get gifted spots... We want to play a fast, relentless style... hey look at all these guys I just signed that have none of those attributes but are good character guys... I know every couple of years I said we would be good in a couple of years, this time I really mean it... wait somehow we have too many veterans so let’s let these good character guys go who are well respected in the room... we need to get younger and faster... so watch me trade a bunch of good draft picks and prospects for instant gratification... wait now we need more veterans again... we will be good in a couple of years... fans need to be patient because these things take time, when I kept saying we could do it in a couple of years, “a couple” really meant 9 years or so... we just need more speed skill, depth, and prospects and then a bunch of new cheaper veterans and all will be good!

Yeah, when you sign a player that player is pretty much guaranteed a spot - unless the player pull an LE; and even with an LE, the contract status alone will mean numerous chances to get in.

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When you play a 56 game schedule with one, 3 day break three, 2 day breaks while flying multiple time zones, then in your 5 day break, the whole team comes down with a virus that takes many people, months to fully recover from, you're not going to see positive results.

 

Our schedule from the start and then the finish was horrendous, and it was further complicated by not having free access to our farm team. Yes, Taxi squad helped, but our best prospects had to go through 2 week quarantine if we wanted to bring them up.

 

I have full confidence that we will be a much better team next season, just from the schedule standpoint even if we weren't making other changes.

 

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I think the Canucks will make or challenge for a PO spot next year as long as Demko is Demko !  Biggest scare for me would be if he gets hurt . Holtby played Ok near the end and does anybody know if last year Helped or hurt DiPietro's develop ?

Petey has to be Healthy and Miller is another level better as a winger than as a Center [ mostly coming out of Vancouver's end ] . I think both Schmidt and Harmonic had horrible starts but looked better near the end and I think Rathbone and OJ will become good regulars .

Really hoping that Pods reminds me of Trevor Lindens rookie season  when all is said and done .

So I will only be disappointed if they get another top 10 pick BUT than they will have a Top 10 pick and I will be saying this again Next year :towel: 

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44 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, when you sign a player that player is pretty much guaranteed a spot - unless the player pull an LE; and even with an LE, the contract status alone will mean numerous chances to get in.

Same with high draft picks 

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5 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Just would like to point out here that being anti-Benning doesn't automatically = impatience.

 

That is all.

A fair assertion. If a fan/or group of them feel they have a legitimate beef with the team, this team site oughta' be a place that all views are afforded.

 

It's great if fans can get/give objective perspective, without resorting to insults & attacks.

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5 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

sir, did you want to start a Management Fight thread? cause this is how you start one.

It's that old, "for the record" thingy.

 

It's been noted that I tend to bump old threads. I'd argue that so many of us post strong views, rants & diatribes, yet we might forget what we said last wk!(myself incl)

 

"Know thyself" the old saying goes. As a starting point, one may's well determine if they're on-board with the present hierarchy. As time keeps rolling & it all plays out, it can be fun to look back at such threads to see if you clearly read the tea leaves, or that one's head was up their wahzoo! Cheers

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5 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

Funny thing about patience. It requires time.

Many of us have been patient for 51 years of that time. We deserve metals for our patience.

For decades, Vancouver GMs have preached patience and talk of the future, using it as a type of currency against the fans. Unfortunately, that future never arrives. No Vancouver management regime has been able to deliver.

Mike Gillis came the closest but alas, fate, once again, chose Vancouver to wear the badge of failure on it's chest..

So, off with Gillis' head and hail JB as the savior of Vancouver fans everywhere. Let the ", retool," begin.

Unfortunately, this strategy also cost more time and required more patience as the Sedins proved too slow to be effective in the new age NHL as age took hold of them. Milking every ounce of Sedinery ownership could get, proved costly in time and required, yet, more patience.

Brutal signings and a couple big gaffs at the draft have cost even more time. 

After seven years of vision shifts, inadequae leadership and, at times, outright unprofessional behavior, patience is still the medallion Vancouver fans must wear around their necks like a St. Christopher pendent, giving us the will and hope that we will, one day, find the legendary chalice that is the Stanley Cup.

Patience is a virtuous thing but it is a standard that requires results to be satisfied. Those results have not come after, more then adequate time (51 years) to produce them.

Therefore, it is fair that some of us more grizzled fans be allowed a little impatience and start to expect said results.

 

As a long Canucks fan seriously what the hell are you expecting? Aren’t you harden yet. 
 

Im Quizzed and im more patient then ever in this new Canuck era as it finally looks promising. 
 

Canucks fans have always been Horrible as was the Team. The Vancouver Hockey fans and 70s Whitecap fans where Disgusting imo.

Example of how horrible Vancouver fans are look at Team Canada 72 summit series booing team Canada at the Vancouver game.

 


 

I actually blame the old whiners the most for being so immature for soooo long that created the toxic sports atmosphere in Vancouver.

 

so plz its time for the old Whiners too growup or die off.

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10 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

A few random musings, & I'll get to the gist.

 

Lots of things went wrong this 56 gamer. No prob..a good time to pocket another nice pick or two.

I hope the twins get into our FO. Devoted, intelligent & trustworthy. Great for the org; & reinforces we were correct to have them play out their careers/stay in Van-city.

 

IF there's no PO's next season? Are you okay with this, as a Canucks fan?

I would be, provided the bulk of our youth keep showing progress. If there are reasons like an insane sched, Covid or mass injuries, I'll understand.

Now should there be a lack of tangible, measurable progress, with no apparent, outside contributing factors, I'd prob be open to JB moving on.

 

But in general, I'm patient with this bunch(realizing their youth), & quite optimistic for the coming decade of Canucks hockey. I'd like to see about a decade of JB at the podium(2014-2024) then hopefully the baton will be handed off to the twins, & perhaps 1 or 2 other exp'd fellows, who are trusted in the Van/BC puck-scene.

 

Get in line if you're a patient Nucks-backer. If it's GOTTA' be Hell-on-wheels next yr, then perhaps this thread ain't for you?..

Gary suitcase Smith used to be my favorite Canuck if that gives you any idea of how long I've been following this team.

A friend told me when I moved to Calgary that I would be a flames fan within a year. Retard.

Patient isn't something I'm being with respect to this team it's become who I am.

As long as we have Lou Erikson, beagle, Sutter and rousel contracts we will continue to struggle. Once those are purged and if we have enough young guys to fill most of those roles......and money to sign a top 6 Ufa we will start to climb

The year after next is the one to get excited about. Luongo recapture , holtbys money, beagle, rooster, Sutter and LE money gone will make a huge difference in the flexibility of this team. 

 

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Owner- rampantly meddling trust fund baby loser 

 

Management- pure, concentrated, gotta see it to believe it incompetence 

 

Fans still supporting this regime-

 

I don’t want to finish the sentence. You know who you are. 

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15 minutes ago, JDLax16 said:

Owner- rampantly meddling trust fund baby loser 

 

Management- pure, concentrated, gotta see it to believe it incompetence 

 

Fans still supporting this regime-

 

I don’t want to finish the sentence. You know who you are. 

Just a big bunch of herpaderpers I guess.

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I'm also patient with the process.  Can see a lot of reasons for optimism.   Only time i've seen this much great young talent at one point before was Linden, Bure, McLean, Nedved and Ronning.  

 

The fact they didn't wane first crack in the bubble matters too. 

 

As long as that continues, JB honours his statement last off-season when he said we are at a point we won't have to rely on UFAs anymore (because the pool is still actually good enough), and next time we go to bat for a blue chip expensive guy it's not LE 2.0 (of course we won't fill all the holes...just no more 3-5 UFAs per year to ice an NHL roster per off-season )   don't see why this team won't have its long day in the sun.

 

Never thought we had much of a chance to do anything, JB drafting changed my mind mostly on that (with this core).   Feel with some patience this will either work or it won't, but at least we have the opportunity for it to work and didn't go with the same team we lost with against Vegas at a tremendous cost to our futures.    Glad for that.   This season was a mulligan.    Next one - if we don't make it, i won't mind too much either as long as core players don't regress, and it has more to do with Seattle, and we take a step forward (12-16th overall).   Still be a lot of cap on the sidelines. 

 

Do feel it's time to name a president, need some oversight as well as someone to keep the owners at arms length.    The Sedins want to join which is great, but doubt they will be ready for a big role for at least 2-3 years.    2022-2023 is a must win year for this teams management core.   If not next season.  

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11 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

As a long Canucks fan seriously what the hell are you expecting? Aren’t you harden yet. 
 

Im Quizzed and im more patient then ever in this new Canuck era as it finally looks promising. 
 

Canucks fans have always been Horrible as was the Team. The Vancouver Hockey fans and 70s Whitecap fans where Disgusting imo.

Example of how horrible Vancouver fans are look at Team Canada 72 summit series booing team Canada at the Vancouver game.

 


 

I actually blame the old whiners the most for being so immature for soooo long that created the toxic sports atmosphere in Vancouver.

 

so plz its time for the old Whiners too growup or die off.

Esoteric fan history.   Espo's speech after the game, was also considered to be the turning point in the series - and it wasn't just Canuck fans going after them the entire country needed an Espo b!tch slap speech.   One of the reasons he's considered one of the best leaders in NHL history. 

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16 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

Funny thing about patience. It requires time.

Many of us have been patient for 51 years of that time. We deserve metals for our patience.

For decades, Vancouver GMs have preached patience and talk of the future, using it as a type of currency against the fans. Unfortunately, that future never arrives. No Vancouver management regime has been able to deliver.

Mike Gillis came the closest but alas, fate, once again, chose Vancouver to wear the badge of failure on it's chest..

So, off with Gillis' head and hail JB as the savior of Vancouver fans everywhere. Let the ", retool," begin.

Unfortunately, this strategy also cost more time and required more patience as the Sedins proved too slow to be effective in the new age NHL as age took hold of them. Milking every ounce of Sedinery ownership could get, proved costly in time and required, yet, more patience.

Brutal signings and a couple big gaffs at the draft have cost even more time. 

After seven years of vision shifts, inadequae leadership and, at times, outright unprofessional behavior, patience is still the medallion Vancouver fans must wear around their necks like a St. Christopher pendent, giving us the will and hope that we will, one day, find the legendary chalice that is the Stanley Cup.

Patience is a virtuous thing but it is a standard that requires results to be satisfied. Those results have not come after, more then adequate time (51 years) to produce them.

Therefore, it is fair that some of us more grizzled fans be allowed a little impatience and start to expect said results.

 

Alas MG also signed the Sedins with a full NMC.   And yes that took some patience to wait out.   Post Sedin one a bubble performance.   Post Sedin two a 9th overall.    Patience was always going to be required after 2014. 

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15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Since this is a good topic would like to add some reference points on how long its taken for rebuilding teams in the 2010's.

 

WNP.   Affectively were in rebuild mould when they came from ATL.   All their old gaurd or first core was gone.   They took the slow and steady path via drafting and development and are a good example of why growth isn't always linear.   Staring in 2010 it took them until 2018 to become relevant again.  That's nine seasons.  During that time they accrued one of the best prospect pools of the 2010's, THN predicted that they'd become a powerhouse five years later and be contenders from 2022 and beyond.   That was before they lost their entire R side.   They've bounced back, and do appear to be Canada's best chance at a cup this season given they are built for the post season.   

 

Verdict: 9 years 

 

TO

 

This team is going to be the outlier.   After a fire sale 2013-2014 they added picks and ended up winning the lottery with Mathews.   22, 27, 30 positions were the down years, then they drafted Mathews and added on of it not the biggest UFA in NHL history in Tavares, following up a dead last spot all the way to 14th overall.   Rebuild done.   Negative?  4 players costing almost half the payroll, multiple first round exits...by far the quickest rebuild of the 2010's

 

Verdict:  4 years with an asterisk.   Rebuilt a rebuild is debatable.  

 

CLB

 

This a tough one.   They've been rebuilding and working their way to the playoffs most of their existence, but will include them because they did bottom out in the 2010's, made the trade for Seth Jones, drafted Werenski, PLD, and for a while anyways signed Panarin.   Their rebuild could be viewed as starting 2013 and going until 2017.   Problem with them is retaining players.    They did however, finally win a series, and Bobrovsky falsely keep them in the mushy middle to really cap things off.

 

Verdict: 5 years with an asterisk.  Look like they will be right back at it soon. So more like five years and counting. 

 

Florida

 

Florida's rebuild started in 2010 when Tallon came on.  They drafted some great players, Barkov, Huberdeau Ekblad etc   It seemed they had finally cracked it in 2016 when they set franchise records (Luongo!) and finished 5th overall...a good example of why progress isn't always linear, next year dropped all the way to 23rd...the following one the mushy middle at 16th..since then more of the same but now their key guys are all in their prime, got Quencville and went all in on Bobrovsky (and then drafted Knight lol)...they are now on their way 

 

Verdict: 2010-2018 9 years 

 

EDM

 

This ones easy.   They rebuilt their rebuild.   More first overalls then any team since the draft started.  15 years before McJesus finally broke their curse, Draisatl of course at 3 also helped a ton.   CHia did a bad job.   Holland has fixed their mess and put some nice touches on the team.   They are officially out of their constant state of rebuilding!   How long did it take?  Well they did have one playoff round with McDavid on his ELC, another example of these things not being linear.   Rebuild is officially over in 2020.    Wow.   Just wow. 

 

Verdict:  15 years 

 

Buffalo

 

Verdict: 10 years and counting enough said. 

 

CAR

 

This one i like a lot and also feel we are close to following their path but in a lot less time.   Their rebuild started shortly after 2009 when Staal, Whitney and the old guard from their cup win were still around....from the early 2010's all the way to 2019 CAR was always in the bottom third a constant state of drafting and developing.   It wasn't until a few parts of their last core remained and the new core was old and developed enough to compete that they finally made it.   And excellent example of how being patient can be rewarded...all of Vancouver, TO, WNP and CAR had top 3 prospect pools for multiple years in a row - CAR is emerging and their rebuild is over. 

 

Verdict 2010/11 to 2019 9-10 years 

 

ARI

 

Ouch.   From an unlikely run in 2011 to the bottom part of the league so quickly and still remain there to this day.   Something is wrong with their drafting and developing down there.   Too many chances at the table, too few reap results.   2013- present time is a long long time to be doing that still.   Already on their second core....doesn't look bright for such a sunny place one bit.

 

Verdict: 8 years and counting 

 

 

That's it.   Add Vancouver and those are the teams that had the majority of their rebuilding years in the 2010's...COL maybe could be added too,  also a great example of progress not alway being linear, like other teams on this list they are also on their second core since they were relevant, third depending how far you go back into the 2000's and if you include anyone traded from their hey days with Sakic and Forsberg and co.    They were coming out of a rebuild for much of the 2010's so didn't include them but if i did i'd say they are also a good reason to be patient.   More often then not it takes parts of two cores to get it done.    Landeskog (No Barrie, Duchene etc) Kadri et al

 

Detroit 

 

Detroit hung on well past their due date but now is one of the worst teams in the league.  Feel both them and whatever happens next with SJ are the Canucks best comps given these three teams won more games then anyone else from 2000-2014, all three of are paying the piper for it now at different stages though.  SJ re-tool worked.   Since then Detroit has become one of the worst teams in the league and is already selling parts of Holland's attempt at rebuilding. 

 

Verdict: 6 years and counting

 

 

Vancouver 

 

I've said it before the rebuild started officially in 2017.   When the re-tool was finally put to rest.   To be fair 2014 we finished 7th overall so really can't count that as a rebuilding year.    Will say just to compare fairly with the above teams, 2015 is the date i will use for these comps. 

 

Verdict: 6 years and counting 

 

OTT 4 years and counting.  NYR about the same.   Their methods are still the same old same old, buy the big name UFAs and cut corners where you can. 

 

Given the above, it's fair to say, that rebuilds now take at least five years.   And an average of 8-9 these days. 

Excellent post.

Rebuilds are also moulded by the draft, and which players a team selects with their first round picks.  And there will be misses in those first round picks, so how well (and at what cost) does the GM make up for those misses is an important factor into determining just how good the rebuilt team will be.  This is where Benning shines bright.  We have core players coming from outside our first round picks.  Players like Demko, Hoglander, and Rathbone make up for any earlier misses.  

Imo we are through the drafting high stage of our rebuild, and have moved into the supporting the core stage.  So I expect to see (more of) those supporting players coming in various ways.  Another good thing Benning has been doing is adding those supporting players during the drafting stage.  Miller and Schmidt were key adds via trade.  Myers was a key add via UFA.  

We are looking at a fresh young core, who are supported by good players, and I for one am excited!

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Next season is obviously a huge one for JB. I suspect we see a few moves this Summer. Moving our 1st for a top 4 and letting Edler walk wouldn’t surprise me in the least. Perhaps trading a prospect to Seattle to get them to take either LE or Holtby and using the cash to sign a top 6. 
 

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9 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

Next season is obviously a huge one for JB. I suspect we see a few moves this Summer. Moving our 1st for a top 4 and letting Edler walk wouldn’t surprise me in the least. Perhaps trading a prospect to Seattle to get them to take either LE or Holtby and using the cash to sign a top 6. 
 

These kind of moves represent the 'anti-patience' approach, & I hope they're not in the cards.

 

Trying to rush these things detracts from reaching their full potential, 3-5 yrs down the line. Can't track it comparably, cos' you never know which prospect(s) you would've added. Far easier to wind up with poorly allocated cap-hit(once more).

 

Hope ownership has given JB the backing to build this thoroughly & properly.

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