[Value of] Andrew Copp

[Bertuzzipunch]

First off My #1 target i want JB to go for is Mason Appleton but i think the jets are really high on him and dont know if we have a chance in getting him. Now im thinking what about Copp? Only 26 years old and we all remember him scoring a hattrick on us smh. He took a big step this season with almost 40 points. What are your thoughts of acquiring him and signing him instead of Appleton. His AAV this year was 2.28 so i guess he might be in for a raise. Would you be upset with idk a 4-5 year deal worth 13-16 mill? Regardless the jets is losing one of these guys to seattle. 

[UKNuck96]

If the jets are losing one of them, why would they trade the other? 
 

I never understand that argument. For me it only stacks up if you have the choice between two and one would get you a good return normally and the other wouldn’t, so you can guarantee which one Seattle would pick.

 

in this situation you trade the better one for a haul because that would be enough to replace the other player Seattle then gets and you also have some other bits back so it’s not a complete loss.

 

when it’s two good players you are going to lose one, why lose both? 

[Bertuzzipunch]

If they trade one they dont lose both. Im thinking they will probably protect appleton and lose copp.

[Bertuzzipunch]

6 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

If the jets are losing one of them, why would they trade the other? 
 

I never understand that argument. For me it only stacks up if you have the choice between two and one would get you a good return normally and the other wouldn’t, so you can guarantee which one Seattle would pick.

 

in this situation you trade the better one for a haul because that would be enough to replace the other player Seattle then gets and you also have some other bits back so it’s not a complete loss.

 

when it’s two good players you are going to lose one, why lose both? 

Or maybe they lose both do u have anything to say about copp or u just gonna whine?

[4petesake]

Someone from JetsNation wrote a pretty decent piece on what he figured it would take to re-sign Copp. Using lots of comparable his conclusion was 4 years @ 3.5 per.

 

I really  like the player, good skater, one of their better defensive forwards, and pretty good numbers offensively. I’d do it at those numbers if we have the cap space. One small correction - he scored 4 against us!

 

IDK if this link will work but it’s a good read on him if it does.

jetsnation.ca/2021/04/08/call-the-copp-predicting-andrews

[UKNuck96]

My view is that they protect Appleton, and Seattle will probably pick one of Logan Stanley, Copp or Broissoit as the best choices of what’s available. 
 

of those three it’s most likely to be Copp they go for. 
 

while I personally like Stanley I think if I was Seattle I would take the middle 6 player who would probably be on a reasonable cap hit and have him had a middle 6 player.

 

if the kraken take Stanley in my view it’s because they plan on flipping him.

 

I just don’t see Copp being available.

 

if the jets trade Copp then they likely lose Stanley.  That means they are down Copp and Stanley with nothing really to show for it as Copp won’t get a big return 

Edited May 31, 2021 by UKNuck96

[BigTramFan]

Copp at $3.5m x 4 years would be an excellent move for VAN. 

 

This all makes me wonder if there are rules around circumventing the Expansion Draft?

 

For example, could we make the following deal before the ED:

 

To VAN: RFA rights to Copp + Stanley

To WPG: RFA rights to Juolevi + 2022 2nd pick

 

VAN protects Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Pearson, Motte, Copp, Schmidt, Myers, Stanley, Demko......Seattle selects Kole Lind

WPG protects Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers, Dubois, Lowry, Appleton, Pionk, Morrissey, Demelo.....Seattle selects Harkins

 

Then AFTER the ED we make the following trade with WPG:

 

To VAN: Juolevi

To WPG: Stanley

 

Net result is VAN gets Copp for a 2022 2nd, WPG gets to keep Appleton and Stanley.

 

[wallstreetamigo]

15 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Copp at $3.5m x 4 years would be an excellent move for VAN. 

 

This all makes me wonder if there are rules around circumventing the Expansion Draft?

 

For example, could we make the following deal before the ED:

 

To VAN: RFA rights to Copp + Stanley

To WPG: RFA rights to Juolevi + 2022 2nd pick

 

VAN protects Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Pearson, Motte, Copp, Schmidt, Myers, Stanley, Demko......Seattle selects Kole Lind

WPG protects Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers, Dubois, Lowry, Appleton, Pionk, Morrissey, Demelo.....Seattle selects Harkins

 

Then AFTER the ED we make the following trade with WPG:

 

To VAN: Juolevi

To WPG: Stanley

 

Net result is VAN gets Copp for a 2022 2nd, WPG gets to keep Appleton and Stanley.

 

As a Canucks fan. Love it. Creative af.

 

As a hockey fan? I am not sure there are specific rules against this. If I were to guess though, I would say rule or not this kind of circumvention situation would be heavily punished retroactively by the league under their very broad discretionary power to do so. The last thing they want is a stain like that on the expansion draft procedure.

 

Would not be surprised to see both teams lose picks or even Juolevi and one of the WPG players to Seattle as compensation.

 

Edit: if it was not the Canucks involved, lets say Toronto or Boston, it might slide past the NHL as simply a good strategy.

Edited May 31, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[qwijibo]

3 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Copp at $3.5m x 4 years would be an excellent move for VAN. 

 

This all makes me wonder if there are rules around circumventing the Expansion Draft?

 

For example, could we make the following deal before the ED:

 

To VAN: RFA rights to Copp + Stanley

To WPG: RFA rights to Juolevi + 2022 2nd pick

 

VAN protects Miller, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Pearson, Motte, Copp, Schmidt, Myers, Stanley, Demko......Seattle selects Kole Lind

WPG protects Scheifele, Wheeler, Connor, Ehlers, Dubois, Lowry, Appleton, Pionk, Morrissey, Demelo.....Seattle selects Harkins

 

Then AFTER the ED we make the following trade with WPG:

 

To VAN: Juolevi

To WPG: Stanley

 

Net result is VAN gets Copp for a 2022 2nd, WPG gets to keep Appleton and Stanley.

 

The league won’t allow it.  They have publicly mentioned thot scenario  using Vegas as an example if the team being used to park a player to hide from expansion. (There’s a sports net article on it) 
 

As a team already saddled with a penalty for circumventing the rules Vancouver really shouldn’t be looking for another way to piss off the league. 
 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:As a team already saddled with a penalty for circumventing the rules Vancouver really shouldn’t be looking for another way to piss off the league. 
 

 

You should add they APPROVED the Luongo contract (just weren’t happy with it as they had no legal grounds to void it) so the league changed the rules AFTER the fact in the next CBA and retroactively applied the new rules to an already existing signed Luongo deal & league approved contract to penalize the Canucks.  

[Ilya Mikheyev]

I know most fans would hate this idea right now but one way a deal could be worked out is possibly including Jack Rathbone who is ED exempt, the bones of a trade could be something like:

 

To WPG: Jack Rathbone, (high) 2nd 2021, Kole Lind

To VAN: Copp/Appleton, Stanley, late pick 2022

 

Canucks can protect their new players and Winnipeg gets an exciting prospect + decent future with the 2nd.

 

Stanley plays a type of game that no Canucks D really does right now, Hamonic being the closest, and a Stanley - Myers bottom pairing seems good to me.

 

Kole Lind can't be protected by either team so he would likely be taken by Seattle and increases WPG chance of keeping Brossoit who they like

 

Both Copp and Appleton play high energy hockey and with Pods coming in would really fill out the top-9 nicely. In general this trade makes the Canucks a more physical, puck hungry team. I think the Canucks could use Appleton more - being right-handed partly - and might be able to leverage him out with the price they'd be paying

 

_____(FA?) - Petey - Boeser

Hoggie - Miller - Appleton

Pearson - Horvat - Podkolzin

Motte - Beagle (if LTIR, maybe Sutter) - Highmore

Roussel

 

Hughes - Hamonic

Edler/Juolevi - Schmidt

Stanley - Myers

Juolevi/Edler, Bowey

 

FA candidate for another LW could include: Granlund, Emil Pettersson, Nick Foglino, Janmark, Hyman (dreams), Blake Coleman, Goodrow, Sheahan. Who knows, certain 9OA players might also be ready to make the jump such as Willy Eklund or Cole Sillinger

[qwijibo]

15 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

You should add they APPROVED the Luongo contract (just weren’t happy with it as they had no legal grounds to void it) so the league changed the rules AFTER the fact in the next CBA and retroactively applied the new rules to an already existing signed Luongo deal & league approved contract to penalize the Canucks.  

You should remember  the league warned teams to not circumvent the spirit of the salary cap and that teams that did  so would face penalties.   The penalty wasn’t out of the blue. GM’s who used the loophole knew there would be repercussions 

Edited May 31, 2021 by qwijibo

[JM_]

I like him and he's the type of player we need, but we really need a true centre for the 3rd line. If there was a way to get him and a 3C I'd be ecstatic. 

 

 

edit: actually going back and looking at all of this stats, he actually is pretty decent on face-offs and might be a good 3C fit. 

 

WPG has a ton of cap space tho, so they can easily re-sign him and expose Applieton. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[NewbieCanuckFan]

39 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

You should remember  the league warned teams to not circumvent the spirit of the salary cap and that teams that did  so would face penalties.   The penalty wasn’t out of the blue. GM’s who used the loophole knew there would be repercussions 

My post was only to highlight that the league implemented a flawed set of rules that they didn’t correct until after the fact.  You say loophole.  I say incompetence with the league.

 

Look how Tampa Bay used “loopholes” with respect to the cap by using LTIR to get around the cap (which the Canucks did in the Gillis years also) this season.  
 

Again, the league approved the Luongo contract because they had no legal reasons to deny it.

Edited May 31, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[BCNate]

9 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

First off My #1 target i want JB to go for is Mason Appleton but i think the jets are really high on him and dont know if we have a chance in getting him. Now im thinking what about Copp? Only 26 years old and we all remember him scoring a hattrick on us smh. He took a big step this season with almost 40 points. What are your thoughts of acquiring him and signing him instead of Appleton. His AAV this year was 2.28 so i guess he might be in for a raise. Would you be upset with idk a 4-5 year deal worth 13-16 mill? Regardless the jets is losing one of these guys to seattle. 

The "they will lose him for nothing to Seattle" scenario only works on teams who have a significant drop off after that first player.  If the Jets were in a situation where they would lose Appleton, or a fringe player, it makes sense to move Appleton for an asset rather than lose him for nothing.  It doesn't work in this case because the next up is Copp. They aren't going to trade one, and then lose the other in the ED as well.  Teams like the Jets are just bound to lose one quality asset for nothing.  

[bigbadcanucks]

2 hours ago, Teemu Selänne said:

I know most fans would hate this idea right now but one way a deal could be worked out is possibly including Jack Rathbone who is ED exempt, the bones of a trade could be something like:

 

To WPG: Jack Rathbone, (high) 2nd 2021, Kole Lind

To VAN: Copp/Appleton, Stanley, late pick 2022

 

Canucks can protect their new players and Winnipeg gets an exciting prospect + decent future with the 2nd.

 

Stanley plays a type of game that no Canucks D really does right now, Hamonic being the closest, and a Stanley - Myers bottom pairing seems good to me.

 

Kole Lind can't be protected by either team so he would likely be taken by Seattle and increases WPG chance of keeping Brossoit who they like

Broissoit doesn't need protection.  He's a UFA.

 

UFAs on your target list that I believe would be worth a hard run at: Hyman, Goodrow, Coleman.  Others: Pacquette and bringing back Josh Leivo.

Edited May 31, 2021 by bigbadcanucks

[Bertuzzipunch]

So if Winnipeg signs copp before the expansion draft that would mean they are probably keeping him(protect). Otherwise why negotiate with him in the first place and do all the work for seattle. Regardless its pretty intriguing what the jets are going to do this offseason.