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2021 Stanley Cup Playoffs | Round 2  

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2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The only reason Toffoli was a Canuck in the first place was because of Benning.  He was hurt in the playoffs and didn't contribute much.  Now that he is gone and playing the best hockey of his career it is Benning's fault he is no longer here.  Like I said in an earlier post Benning's biggest mistake was trading for Toffoli in the first place.  If the trade had never occurred we wouldn't be talking about Toffoli at all right now.

If toffoli did re-sign with us would that really have made much of a difference on the season we had. I dont think so. 

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1 minute ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

If toffoli did re-sign with us would that really have made much of a difference on the season we had. I dont think so. 

No I don't think so.  I don't think we make the playoffs this year even with Toffoli in the lineup.  And Schmidt is probably not a Canuck so we'd have a huge hole to fill on defense.

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10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Demko was still unproven.  The logical move to make was to get a veteran who has won a Cup as a backup in case Demko didn't pan out.  Benning had to pay up to get that veteran goalie.  There wasn't a cheaper option in free agency with a better resume.  In terms of dumping a pick to clear cap space, he just finished dumping a 2nd round pick and a prospect for Toffoli, I can only imagine the uproar if he traded a 1st round pick to dump Loui or Roussel, which is what it would have taken to dump them.

Going with an unproven goalie (who I dont think was actually as unproven as people like to say) and a veteran, cheaper backup would have been perfectly acceotable to a GM who could think beyond just this season.

 

Holtby won a cup. Big deal. So did Toffoli btw. Hockey is about what have you done for me lately, not what did you do several years ago despite what you have done recently. He was pretty terrible the season before coming to Van. Not worth that contract at all. 

 

Notice I said prospect, not pick. Nice attempt at creating an argument I did not make. 

 

If it would take a 1st to dump any of the bad contract guys, why is it impossible for Benning supporters to then make the logical connection that they are, in fact, $&!#ty contracts that were a huge mistake to sign in the first place?

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8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The only reason Toffoli was a Canuck in the first place was because of Benning.  He was hurt in the playoffs and didn't contribute much.  Now that he is gone and playing the best hockey of his career it is Benning's fault he is no longer here.  Like I said in an earlier post Benning's biggest mistake was trading for Toffoli in the first place.  If the trade had never occurred we wouldn't be talking about Toffoli at all right now.

But he did and that was the problem and you are right we wouldn't be talking about him but this also showed how Benning squandered an opportunity to sign Toffoli on a good amount and term. It doesn't look good for the GM when you let go of a Top 6 scoring winger that wanted to stay in Vancouver because of his past free agent signings.

 

A lot of people who defend Benning would bring up the Luongo recapture penalty and the flat cap because of Covid. I don't buy that since Benning said they were anticipating that Luongo would retire before his term is up and the flat cap wouldn't have been a problem if he didn't overpay Free Agents to come here, a move that was criticized by many people even at the time.

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8 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

If toffoli did re-sign with us would that really have made much of a difference on the season we had. I dont think so. 

I have a feeling 3 capable scoring lines might have helped. Would they have made the playoffs? Who knows. Would they be deeper offensively? For sure. 

 

Incremental improvement matters a ton. So does wasting assets for a guy you let walk. Contenders trade for rentals. The fact Benning thought the Canucks were an actual contender that was one Toffoli away from a cup run is probably the saddest part of it all.

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3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Going with an unproven goalie (who I dont think was actually as unproven as people like to say) and a veteran, cheaper backup would have been perfectly acceotable to a GM who could think beyond just this season.

 

Holtby won a cup. Big deal. So did Toffoli btw. Hockey is about what have you done for me lately, not what did you do several years ago despite what you have done recently. He was pretty terrible the season before coming to Van. Not worth that contract at all. 

 

Notice I said prospect, not pick. Nice attempt at creating an argument I did not make. 

 

If it would take a 1st to dump any of the bad contract guys, why is it impossible for Benning supporters to then make the logical connection that they are, in fact, $&!#ty contracts that were a huge mistake to sign in the first place?

You said prospect I said pick.  The two are interchangeable and I didn't even notice the mistake, so I wasn't trying to create an argument at all. 

 

Was there a better goalie option than Holtby?  I don't think there was but I'd have to go back and check who else was available.  It is easy to say Demko would have been fine on his own but imagine the backlash if Benning let's Markstrom walk and then Demko sh*ts the bed this year.  That would have been far worse than letting Toffoli walk for nothing.

 

The contract for Loui wasn't bad on day one.  People were happy that the Sedins were getting a 30 goal scorer who was also Swedish to play with them.  Just like Toffoli is having a career year at 29, Loui went in the complete opposite direction from day one and basically forgot how to play hockey.  Hindsight is 20/20.  All the contracts signed that summer were bad, not just Loui's.  As for Roussel and Beagle, I didn't mind the signings or the $3 million AAV, I would have preferred they were only 3 year deals for both instead of 4, but they probably wouldn't have come to Vancouver for a 3 year deal.

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16 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

If toffoli did re-sign with us would that really have made much of a difference on the season we had. I dont think so. 

Before the Covid outbreak yes. Toffoli scoring at will over the Canucks made the Habs move up in the standings and the canucks dropping. Also The Habs were only 9 pts behind and some of the loser points the Habs were able to get was because of Toffoli 

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13 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

If toffoli did re-sign with us would that really have made much of a difference on the season we had. I dont think so. 

Well, if he’s re-signed with us, on the same deal as he signed with the Habs, even if his presence on the team didn’t change our fortunes this season, we probably could’ve traded him at the deadline, and gotten a really nice return, quite possibly including another first round pick in this draft (or next year’s). 
 

Or, we could just have held him a year or two, gotten some good value on the ice, and then cashed in on a trade.

 

I mean, it’s done now, and I’m over dwelling on it (and the other players that were allowed to walk), but it’s pretty clear that we took an L by letting Toffoli walk, whether just thinking in terms of the value he provided on-ice, as part of the roster, or when you consider the value he could have provided, as a trade chip.

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Toffoli is a GOD in Vancouver now.  He can't do any wrong.  He is better than McJesus really.  We should just dedicate this entire site to Toffoli for the rest of the playoffs as I am sure 90% of the posts will be about him anyways.

 

I'm just going to enjoy watching the Habs play and hopefully win a Cup for Alex Burrows.  If Toffoli ends up winning the Conn Smythe I will be very happy for him.  I'm not going to engage in any more Toffoli discussion as it relates to the Canucks.

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1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You said prospect I said pick.  The two are interchangeable and I didn't even notice the mistake, so I wasn't trying to create an argument at all. 

 

Was there a better goalie option than Holtby?  I don't think there was but I'd have to go back and check who else was available.  It is easy to say Demko would have been fine on his own but imagine the backlash if Benning let's Markstrom walk and then Demko sh*ts the bed this year.  That would have been far worse than letting Toffoli walk for nothing.

 

The contract for Loui wasn't bad on day one.  People were happy that the Sedins were getting a 30 goal scorer who was also Swedish to play with them.  Just like Toffoli is having a career year at 29, Loui went in the complete opposite direction from day one and basically forgot how to play hockey.  Hindsight is 20/20.  All the contracts signed that summer were bad, not just Loui's.  As for Roussel and Beagle, I didn't mind the signings or the $3 million AAV, I would have preferred they were only 3 year deals for both instead of 4, but they probably wouldn't have come to Vancouver for a 3 year deal.

I can understand the backlash argument to some degree if Demko didnt play well. But I dont think we needed Holtby at the time and was provdn correct about that this season. Sometimes part of a rebuilding team is trusting the young guys without wasting cap space on insurance policies. Almost every UFA contract Benning signs ends up being just a fear of trusting what he has to do the job. 

 

I understood the rationale for the Eriksson signing but didnt like it at the time. The signs were there that his big final contract year production was not going to be easily replicated with the Sedins or rlsewhere on Vancouvers roster. He was used in a very specific role with far different types of players that year in Boston. Despite tge internationsl success, the fit looked awkward to some right from the start.

 

Beagle and Roussel were nice to have players, not need to have at those contracts. They dont want to come unless you givd them 4 years? Move on to the next guy who will. Benning is myopic in needing certain players despite the cost. Its a real defining aspect of his signings.

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Posted (edited)

I think there's no one here that can say in a straight face that they wouldn't have wanted Toffoli back in Vancouver especially with that term and cap. Those saying otherwise are lying to themselves and I can't really blame them. Like I said in a previous thread, it's a way coping up with a loss or after a breakup where you try to justify it was for the best.

 

I am listening to Sportsnet 650 and their podcast and as they said "The Canucks had no reason to be getting rid of a player as a good as Toffoli"

 

Edited by iinatcc
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6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Sergachev for Drouin was brutal. No denying that. But at the same time, Benning wound up essentially trading Toffoli, Madden, a 2nd, and Schaller (cap dump) for literally nothing in return. That "trade" is kind of much worse.

 

I think this summer is going to show everyone exactly how much Benning has learned and whether we can be hopeful he can build an entire team. Because by the time he drafts one the older cord guys will be aged out. If he does more of the same mistakes as previously, we should all be very concerned. If he makes good moves it should help restore some faith in him going forward from us doubters.

Toffoli walking was undoubtedly a mistake but you can’t really believe this, can you? Sergachev plays top 2/3 minutes on the Cup favourite team. Drouin, even prior to his personal LOA, was an unproductive player of limited usage who struggled to stay in the lineup at times. 
 

 

The two trades are not even close in their level of bad. Drouin for Serg is one of the worst trades in recent years, period. 

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So does this make the Jets look bad for being swept after doing the sweeping or Edmonton worse for getting swept by a team who later got swept haha 

 

I love how this emphasises the Oilers loss (for me anyway)

 

But I was also routing for the Jets :(

 

 

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10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Now will the Habs get swept and then the team that beats them get swept in the finals? That would be funny.

I could see it since the next team will be a big step above the teams Montreal has already played, though Price probably steals a game or 2.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, c00kies said:

I could see it since the next team will be a big step above the teams Montreal has already played, though Price probably steals a game or 2.

If Habs face Vegas it Vegas will win in 6 since I can see Price stealing a game or two

If Habs face the Avs, Habs will be swept too much elite fire power for Price to steal any of the games

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5 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

If Habs face Vegas it Vegas will win in 6 since I can see Price stealing a game or two

If Habs face the Avs, Habs will be swept too much elite fire power for Price to steal any of the games

100% agree.  The Canadian Division was (is) very pedestrian when compared to the US ones.  

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