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2021 Stanley Cup Playoffs | Round 2  

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23 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Well the Stecher thing was a bit of a stretch (see what I did there) 

 

But Toffoli I can relate. Especially since Benning is probably going to try and acquired a Top 6 RW player again.

 

Im actually scared that Benning might start going for Corey Perry for Sutter money :emot-parrot:

I'm not one of those "Fire Benning" guys, nor am I one who thinks he can do no wrong....

 

....in this case, I'm guessing that he would have liked to keep TT, but decided that there were more pressing needs (Schmidt) and felt that he just couldn't afford to keep Toffoli.

 

It would have been nice if he could have signed a less expensive backup for Demko and used that money on keeping Toffoli, but woulda, coulda, shoulda....

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44 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

easy there partner, those kids are not on that level 

Regardless.  It’s an interesting fact.  Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are very young and are already proving to be playoff performers.  The future looks promising for Montreal 

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35 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Regardless.  It’s an interesting fact.  Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are very young and are already proving to be playoff performers.  The future looks promising for Montreal 

When the trade for Patches was made, I'm sure most people felt that Tatar was the major peice going the other way, but Suzuki has made that deal look awfully good for Montreal...

 

Still, if I had to point to one thing (or two actually) that Bergevin did right, it would acquiring Chiarot and Edmundson. Those two have really solidified the back end, IMO.

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38 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Regardless.  It’s an interesting fact.  Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are very young and are already proving to be playoff performers.  The future looks promising for Montreal 

maybe. They're proving to be weird bubble performers. We'll see in the next round what they are. 

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3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

When the trade for Patches was made, I'm sure most people felt that Tatar was the major peice going the other way, but Suzuki has made that deal look awfully good for Montreal...

 

Still, if I had to point to one thing (or two actually) that Bergevin did right, it would acquiring Chiarot and Edmundson. Those two have really solidified the back end, IMO.

Bergevin loves his d-men. Which is one of the reasons the Drouin deal shocked me. It was out of character for him. Gotta wonder if Molson pressured him to bring in a marketable French Canadian “star”

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1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

Bergevin loves his d-men. Which is one of the reasons the Drouin deal shocked me. It was out of character for him. Gotta wonder if Molson pressured him to bring in a marketable French Canadian “star”

That's always going to be a consideration in Montreal.

 

I remember several years ago in one of those "proposal" threads, saying that the Canucks should offer Montreal Luongo for Price plus Patches, plus someone else. (I think it was Komisarek)

 

My theory at the time was that the fan base would kill management if they didn't take the deal. (Bear in mind that this was before Price and Pacioretty became stars. Halak took the Habs on that playoff run in a year or two later, so if ever there was a time to make an offer for CP, that was it.)

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6 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Madden realistically was not gonna crack the Canucks roster. He was expendable.

Never said he wasnt. Just like Gaudette wasnt. Or Forsling. Or McCann.

 

Being expendable to improve your team is different than being expendable for a rental or garbage back though.

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1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Never said he wasnt. Just like Gaudette wasnt. Or Forsling. Or McCann.

 

Being expendable to improve your team is different than being expendable for a rental or garbage back though.

So you're saying the Toffoli trade wasn't good? The trade is/was one of the better acquisitions the Canucks had. He made more of an impact for the Canucks than Madden would, at least in the short term. 

 

What happened afterwards is debatable. Madden is not really that big of a loss.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

So you're saying the Toffoli trade wasn't good? The trade is/was one of the better acquisitions the Canucks had. He made more of an impact for the Canucks than Madden would, at least in the short term. 

 

What happened afterwards is debatable. Madden is not really that big of a loss.

The trade would have been pretty good had they kept Toffoli. Its impossible to separate those two things. Madden and a 2nd for a rental is not a good trade when you are not a top contender.

 

Why does Madden have to be a "big loss" to make it a bad trade? Like many of his trades, Benning bleeds value, getting less benefit than he should out of players he trades. 

 

Madden and a 2nd for a Toffoli rental isnt a good trade. Its terrible and a waste of assets. No other way to describe it.

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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Posted (edited)
On 6/7/2021 at 10:17 PM, qwijibo said:

This is from after he signed in Montreal. So there was no reason to lie and say how much he wanted to stay in Vancouver at that point. 
 

“From the second I got on the ice there, I just loved it. I was on a line with Petey and Millsy and we had incredible chemistry right from the get go. I just had a different feeling coming to the rink each day. I was rejuvenated. Obviously everything got flipped upside down when the season shut down due to the pandemic, but I felt a real connection to the city. Cat and I both did.

I got hurt in the bubble and the series against Vegas didn’t quite go our way last summer, but it seemed like the start of something special out there. And I just felt like I really fit in with that group off the ice. Everything was easy.

That’s why I wanted to come back to Vancouver. I could have seen myself finishing out my career there. But hockey is a business, I understand that. And at the end of the day, there was no offer from the Canucks’ end, so we had to go another direction. It was disappointing, but I knew that there was going to be a team out there that wanted me and saw me for the player I know I am.”

‘Nuff said. I am respecting Toffer & wife Cat a whole lot.
 

And, if Montreal should ever decide to cast him off, at the end of an expiring contract, to a better than  potential play-off team looking for some instant chemistry & experienced-veteran-leadership to augment a legitimate SCup-run…..Toffer better on that new receiving GM’s radar by milli-second one. 
 

 

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14 minutes ago, viking mama said:

‘Nuff said. Me respecting Toffer & wife a whole lot.
 

And, if Montreal ever decides to cast him off at the end of an expiring contract, to a streaky play-team looking for some instant veteran chemistry, depth & experienced-leadership to augment a legitimate SCup-run…well, Toffer better be a man on our new GMs radar. 

Yeah. I didn’t mean to open up the Toffoli can of worms. Someone came in saying it was his choice to not re-sign with the Canucks and I couldn’t keep my big mouth shut.  He obviously loved his time in Vancouver  and now he’s found a whole new level playing in Montreal. We should just enjoy seeing him play and forget the drama. Like he says. Ultimately it’s a business. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

Yeah. I didn’t mean to open up the Toffoli can of worms. Someone came in saying it was his choice to not re-sign with the Canucks and I couldn’t keep my big mouth shut.  He obviously loved his time in Vancouver  and now he’s found a whole new level playing in Montreal. We should just enjoy seeing him play and forget the drama. Like he says. Ultimately it’s a business. 

It’s like he said. He felt rejuvenated.
 

IF these Habs win it all, it’d be extremely hard to repeat.  
 

The smaller northern division was guaranteed a team into the final four. That ends post-Covid. Grand prize-winning players would be expecting pay raises, which may not  be possible, nor would it be  possible to keep ‘em all together.

 

Toffoli could return, looking to recapture that ‘special something’ to pro-long his career yet again. 
 

 

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4 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The trade would have been pretty good had they kept Toffoli. Its impossible to separate those two things. Madden and a 2nd for a rental is not a good trade when you are not a top contender.

 

Why does Madden have to be a "big loss" to make it a bad trade? Like many of his trades, Benning bleeds value, getting less benefit than he should out of players he trades. 

 

Madden and a 2nd for a Toffoli rental isnt a good trade. Its terrible and a waste of assets. No other way to describe it.

Gillis did this all the time with his trades, and yet most Gillis defenders, if not all, will justify those trades. Trades are calculated risks. 

 

The difference? Benning actually has drafted usable players more so than Gillis ever did. Gillis actually fits what you've all been describing - bleeding assets.

 

Yes, everyone knows by now Benning should've kept Toffoli. It's such a tired argument. But you have overstated Madden. The proof is in you pencilling madden as a potential 3C prospect. He was floundering in the AHL last season, and obviously would need more time there before he makes the jump. He also doesn't seem to fit Green's requirements for his roster. 

 

The loss of a 2nd was certainly not ideal. After all, a 2nd round could bring in a Demko or Hoglander type.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Yes, everyone knows by now Benning should've kept Toffoli. It's such a tired argument. But you have overstated Madden. The proof is in you pencilling madden as a potential 3C prospect. He was floundering in the AHL last season, and obviously would need more time there before he makes the jump. He also doesn't seem to fit Green's requirements for his roster. 

A little off topic but I do feel we are doing Toffoli a disservice by making this Toffli thing more about the player instead of talking about Benning's poor asset management leading to this moment.

 

It's no secret that the reason why Benning couldn't bring Toffoli back was because of the cap constraints especially how he used the cap to sign the bottom 6 "Glue Guys" even though it wasn't a good idea at the time..

 

The best way to describe Benning in this that he is given $2000 to spend on his vacation for a period of time. He spends $1800 on bad deals on vacation trips to Manitoba, North Dakota, Indianapolis, and Delaware. Then all of a sudden there's a $350 for an all expense paid trip to Hawaii but because Benning overpaid on some terrible vacation spots he can't afford the trip to Hawaii.  

 

Edited by iinatcc
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Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2021 at 9:57 AM, qwijibo said:

 

that was the one question mark on that roster - whether they would be able to manage matchups with those two in the lineup (and particularly on the road).

so far they faced the Leafs without Tavares and the Jets without Scheifele....

I'd still take them to win those series, regardless - but Suzuki and Kotkaniemi have been better than could be 'expected' - and the Habs have caught a bit of luck.

 

That's what it tends to take to be successful in the playoffs - not simply a good build, but also remain relatively healthy and catch a few breaks.

 

And further- both Danault - and Staal - need to be considered in that equation.  They are seriously 'foundational'.

Danault is at 30.1% ozone starts in the playoffs - faced the opposition's best the entire time, has won the 'possession' battle in the process (50.4% corsi) and has been a huge factor - as has Staal, who's at 40.3% ozone starts, has 7pts and is +2.  Those two lines have counterbalanced the young players very well.

Edited by oldnews
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1 minute ago, oldnews said:

that was the one question mark on that roster - whether they would be able to manage matchups with those two in the lineup.

so far they faced the Leafs without Tavares and the Jets without Scheifele....

I'd still take them to win those series, regardless - but Suzuki and Kotkaniemi have been better than could be 'expected'.

 

And further- both Danault - and Staal - need to be considered in that equation.

Danault is at 30.1% ozone starts in the playoffs - faced the opposition's best the entire time, has won the 'possession' battle in the process (50.4% corsi) and has been a huge factor - as has Staal, who's at 40.3% ozone starts, has 7pts and is +2.  Those two lines have counterbalanced the young players very well.

Danault has definitely been showing his worth.  The vet line of Staal and Perry has been more than full value.  I honestly wouldn’t have guessed at the kind of impact they’ve had 

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