With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

[Bertuzzipunch]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i'm counting their current real age not their current how many games they played in the NHL like Dahlin hit 100 points at a younger age than Hughes did

Lol 

[wallstreetamigo]

I think Dahlin would be a lot better away from the Buffalo tire fire.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i'm counting their current real age not their current how many games they played in the NHL like Dahlin hit 100 points at a younger age than Hughes did

Of course he did, he started playing in the NHL at age 18, Hughes didn't play a full season until he was 20.  Not sure what you are trying to say here.  Hughes has more points on a point per game basis than Dahlin.  Dahlin has 107 points in 197 games while Hughes has 97 points in 129 games.  On a point per game basis they aren't even close.  Hughes is way ahead at this point in his career.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Elias Pettersson

[wallstreetamigo]

Does anyone else wonder how many guys this year are hoping not to go 1st overall? Lol

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Of course he did, he started playing in the NHL at age 18, Hughes didn't play a full season until he was 20.  Not sure what you are trying to say here.  Hughes has more points on a point per game basis than Dahlin.  Dahlin has 107 points in 197 games while Hughes has 97 points in 129 games.  On a point per game basis they aren't even close.  Hughes is way ahead at this point in his career.

sure but dahlin was improving to similar ppg lvl per year at the same age until this year when buffalo went to hell

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Svech is pretty decent at both ends of the ice.

 

The sticking point for me with Hughes is his defensive game. Its not just because he plays on a crappy team either. Its definitely imo partly because the style they are coached to play. It really doesn't fit with what he needs to do to be an effective defender with his lack of size and strength. He doesnt get to use his skills that way. 

 

Its also that to generate things offensively he has to be very aggressive which is of course his strength as an offensive player. But his defense suffers for it. 

 

Over time to be an effective defender, he needs to be better at reading when to go and when not to. Thats just time and experience. 

 

I think of Duncan Keith (I know, we all hate him lol). He was effective because he learned to use his offensive minded skills on the defensive side of the puck. Aggressive stick, skating the puck out of trouble, effective transition passing, etc. And he had a few different partners who were very solid defensively and could give him a bit more leeway to take calculated risks.

 

Hughes is smart. I think he will eventually get it. The team could help him and the whole defense accelerate that with a new defense coach and an effective partner for Quinn.

Hughes will get it, the whole family bleeds hockey and Quinn has an excessive amount of pure talent.  He just needs a few years in the league to learn the defensive side.  He will never be an Alex Edler but with time I think he could be as good as Makar on the defensive side.  Makar is a superior player at this point as he has a more well rounded game.  But Hughes has the skill and brains to get to Makar's level I think.  We will see.

[Bertuzzipunch]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure but dahlin was improving to similar ppg lvl per year at the same age until this year when buffalo went to hell

Regardless Dahlin isn’t in the same league as hughes as an offense player.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure but dahlin was improving to similar ppg lvl per year at the same age until this year when buffalo went to hell

Buffalo has been in hell for almost 20 years...

[70seven]

Build from the net out.  
 

Winning teams generally have that trait.  Clutch goaltending and defensive depth.  Yes you need skilled forwards, but in terms of development, positions mature at different stages relative to on ice importance.  
 

Guesstimated averages for NHL arrival:  Goalies 24-26, Dmen 22-24, forwards 20-23...  obviously varies for exceptional talent and late bloomers, but if you want to rebuild, draft your goalies and defensman, followed by centermen, skilled wingers....  draft BPA, but prioritize when your 50/50  and THEN adjust and fill out your roster via trade and Free agency because you have a lot of young assets at any said position, and you can then use them to acquire roster assets, more picks, and some good ol cap space...

 

sounds easy enough...  except for the fact that this is a business owned by billionaires who generally despise the idea of any business being unprofitable, where in Vancouver, if the Canucks don’t win, they don’t make bank.
 

The irony is that it’s the markets fault for not supporting this team when the times are rough.  There’s just too much else to do in this gorgeous region for most casual fans to care.  Toronto...  doesn’t have that issue, say what you want, but they really do bleed blue out there, which is far more than I can say for most Canuck nation ... which I’m sadly apart of. 

In short, don’t be shocked to see 9OA gone for another JT Miller type gamble to fill his newly vacant 1LW role. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by 70seven

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Buffalo has been in hell for almost 20 years...

well i'm just saying u can't say hughes is ahead of dahlin just because what they've done looking at their ppg at the same age up until this year say they are pretty close

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Hughes will get it, the whole family bleeds hockey and Quinn has an excessive amount of pure talent.  He just needs a few years in the league to learn the defensive side.  He will never be an Alex Edler but with time I think he could be as good as Makar on the defensive side.  Makar is a superior player at this point as he has a more well rounded game.  But Hughes has the skill and brains to get to Makar's level I think.  We will see.

This is a fair take. I think it will take some time for sure. Makar is just improving at both ends at such an accelerated pace that its easy for the comparison to not look good for Hughes. But he is a smart and skilled player.

 

The Canucks need to walk that fine line of getting him to improve defensively while not completely stifling his creativity. Thats a lot harder than it sounds.

 

Its one reason I really believe if Hughes is a guy the Canucks are going to build their D around, they need a new coach and a more aggressive defensive style of play. 

 

Makar is thriving at least partially because the Avs play defensively in the way that allows him to maximize his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. A lot of that is coaching imo.

[Bertuzzipunch]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

well i'm just saying u can't say hughes is ahead of dahlin just because what they've done looking at their ppg at the same age up until this year say they are pretty close

They aren’t close and never will be. Hughes will always be better offensively than Dahlin. 

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, Bertuzzipunch said:

They aren’t close and never will be. Hughes will always be better offensively than Dahlin. 

I think its too early to say that for sure. 

 

Hughes has to get much better defensively. We dont necessarily know how those adjustments will impact his offensive game.

 

Dahlin just needs to play for an actual NHL quality team from ownership down. 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This is a fair take. I think it will take some time for sure. Makar is just improving at both ends at such an accelerated pace that its easy for the comparison to not look good for Hughes. But he is a smart and skilled player.

 

The Canucks need to walk that fine line of getting him to improve defensively while not completely stifling his creativity. Thats a lot harder than it sounds.

 

Its one reason I really believe if Hughes is a guy the Canucks are going to build their D around, they need a new coach and a more aggressive defensive style of play. 

 

Makar is thriving at least partially because the Avs play defensively in the way that allows him to maximize his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses. A lot of that is coaching imo.

I agree with all of that.  I will add that to accelerate the defensive play of Hughes Benning will need to find him a long term partner he can grow with.  Someone like Erik Cernak.  Makar doesn't need a Cernak because he already is good defensively, but Hughes would be helped tremendously with a guy like Cernak who he can play with for the next decade.

 

I'd go all in to get a partner for Hughes.  That should be Benning's #1 priority this summer so he can speed up the development of Hughes and hopefully turn him into a Norris Trophy winner at some point in his career.  Makar I think will get there in the next year or two.  I'm hoping by age 25 Quinn will be there too.

[Bertuzzipunch]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I think its too early to say that for sure. 

 

Hughes has to get much better defensively. We dont necessarily know how those adjustments will impact his offensive game.

 

Dahlin just needs to play for an actual NHL quality team from ownership down. 

Absolutely not too early at all. Dahlin does not have the offensive instincts that hughes has  

[Elias Pettersson]

Just now, Bertuzzipunch said:

Absolutely not too early at all. Dahlin does not have the offensive instincts that hughes has  

I agree.  Dahlin will never be an 80 point player I don't think.  Hughes has the potential to hit Erik Karlsson numbers...

[wai_lai416]

18 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

They aren’t close and never will be. Hughes will always be better offensively than Dahlin. 

they are closer than u think but sure hughes will always be the better offensively player coz that's what he is compared to what dahlin is

[Bertuzzipunch]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

they are closer than u think but sure hughes will always be the better offensively player coz that's what he is compared to what dahlin is

I think most fans know the difference between the 2 and what each brings to the table. Quinn will never get credit no matter how much improved he becomes defensively in the future. Mostly from non canuck fans, he will always be hated on. 

[iinatcc]

So I just saw this thread now. Firstly I never listed to JD Burke after his trashing The Last Jedi so let's put that out of the way. 

 

As for the Tavares contract though, I would rather pay 11 million for Tavares than almost 20 million for Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson, Sutter etc. 

 

As for the argument of the cap going up as a reason to sign Tavares for 11 million. Yeah at the time it was a valid argument and yes the flat cap and covid derailed that.

 

But then people here are defending Benning saying it was Covid and the flat cap as the reason of the Canucks lack of off season activity while, at the same time, criticizing The Leafs because of their cap issues and signing star players to huge contacts. I find this hypocritical since The Leafs management also took into consideration the cap going up (especially when signing Tavares).

 

 

[wai_lai416]

7 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

I think most fans know the difference between the 2 and what each brings to the table. Quinn will never get credit no matter how much improved he becomes defensively in the future. Mostly from non canuck fans, he will always be hated on. 

who's hating on him? right now it's not even a debate he's poor defensively and he needs to work on i'll be happy if he ends up a great offensive player with a respectable defensive side not the current defensive side