With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

[Guest]

Ehh....  I kind of have to feel bad for the Leafs.  They've been an amazing team during the regular season but have just run into some good teams over the years of THIS core.  I honestly wouldn't touch anything there, they just need a better coach with a little bit more of a buy-in from everyone. Who knows, maybe one more year under this coach might be beneficial as well to improve on their system.  

 

It just dawned on me that we witnessed a Manny Malhotra vs. Alex Burrows matchup in this round.  I am not surprised that we're seeing a lot of those guys (Sedins now too) go on to pursue management/coachin careers in hockey.  We had talent but more importantly hockey IQ during that 4-5 year run.  

 

Who knows, maybe one day Manny or Burr will get their next promotion from assistant coach to coach with us. 

 

 

 

[FaninMex]

Finally something that I can agree with from you.

 

The build an all O team and neglect the D portion of the ice like so many on here want, simply does not win you playoff games. Need to build goalie out.

[Patel Bure]

8 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Ehh....  I kind of have to feel bad for the Leafs.  They've been an amazing team during the regular season but have just run into some good teams over the years of THIS core.  I honestly wouldn't touch anything there, they just need a better coach with a little bit more of a buy-in from everyone. Who knows, maybe one more year under this coach might be beneficial as well to improve on their system.  

 

It just dawned on me that we witnessed a Manny Malhotra vs. Alex Burrows matchup in this round.  I am not surprised that we're seeing a lot of those guys (Sedins now too) go on to pursue management/coachin careers in hockey.  We had talent but more importantly hockey IQ during that 4-5 year run.  

 

Who knows, maybe one day Manny or Burr will get their next promotion from assistant coach to coach with us. 

 

 

 

If you want to feel bad for the Leafs, that’s perfectly within your right, but you may want to be alerted to the following:

 

When the Bruins defeated the Canucks ten years ago in the cup finals, 95% of Leaf fans were cheering the Bruins at the bars (source:  650 Sportsnet).  Oilers and Flames fans behaved in the same manner.  Alberta’s “960 The Fan” even took very personal shots at guys like Alex Burrows that extended beyond hockey.
 

When the riots took place that night, the entire city was painted in a terrible light by the Albertan and Torontonian media.   The fact that thousands upon thousands of good Vancouverites cleaned up the vandalism a few days later was largely ignored by these three cities for the most part, and the vast majority of good law abiding Vancouverites were lumped in with the hooligans.  The city of Toronto had the choice and opportunity to make this rather crucial distinction and stick up for its fellow Canadians, but chose not to.

 

Still want to feel sorry for the Leafs?  

Edited June 1, 2021 by Patel Bure

[FaninMex]

8 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Ehh....  I kind of have to feel bad for the Leafs.  They've been an amazing team during the regular season but have just run into some good teams over the years of THIS core.  I honestly wouldn't touch anything there, they just need a better coach with a little bit more of a buy-in from everyone. Who knows, maybe one more year under this coach might be beneficial as well to improve on their system.  

 

It just dawned on me that we witnessed a Manny Malhotra vs. Alex Burrows matchup in this round.  I am not surprised that we're seeing a lot of those guys (Sedins now too) go on to pursue management/coachin careers in hockey.  We had talent but more importantly hockey IQ during that 4-5 year run.  

 

Who knows, maybe one day Manny or Burr will get their next promotion from assistant coach to coach with us. 

 

 

 

While they are a decent time for the regular season, it does not mean anything.

Compare the Leafs to Washington, Boston, Avs... the list is long and they lose. For example, Mathews has no drive to do anything. He is not playing to win. I would hate him on our team. They are weak mentally. I see what Dubas was trying to do by adding the old guys to the line up but once their soul player, Taveres went down, they were truly done.

 

If I was the Leaf's I would send Mathew's and Nylander packing.

[VegasCanuck]

36 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

TO's defence + goalie was worse then Mtl D + goalie I don't think it's rocket science. Really the TO Defence is likely on par with Vcr defence and their goaltending worse.

 

Isle beat Boston and Scott Mayfield looking good

Time for a rebuild in Toronto???

 

[Viper007]

Toronto 2021 Playoffs

 

Austin Matthews - 1 Goal - 11.64 M Cap Hit

Mitch Marner - 0 Goals - 10.903 M Cap Hit

 

Total - 1 Goal - 22.543 M Cap Hit (Still with TO till 2024)

 

 

Vancouver 2020 Playoffs

 

Jay Beagle - 1 Goal - 3 M Cap Hit

Antoine Roussel - 2 Goals - 3 M Cap Hit

Brandon Sutter - 1 Goal - 4.375 M Cap Hit

Loui Eriksson - 0 Goals - 6 M Cap Hit

 

Total - 4 Goals - 16.375 M Cap Hit  (All Gone by 2022)

 

For all those that complain about our bad cap hits, you get these Toronto players who perform so well when it is the most important time of the year. LOL!

 

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

While they are a decent time for the regular season, it does not mean anything.

Compare the Leafs to Washington, Boston, Avs... the list is long and they lose. For example, Mathews has no drive to do anything. He is not playing to win. I would hate him on our team. They are weak mentally. I see what Dubas was trying to do by adding the old guys to the line up but once their soul player, Taveres went down, they were truly done.

 

If I was the Leaf's I would send Mathew's and Nylander packing.

I see what you’re saying to an extent, but I’m not sure if I agree with completely about Matthew’s and Marner.

 

Both players are wonderful hockey players, as is Tavares.   Toronto’s biggest problem however is that they paid everyone premium money before having won anything!   
 

If you look at all of the cup winners since 2010, all of these teams had their core players on relatively low AAV% post RFA deals.  
 

Toronto’s biggest problem is that they paid HUGE for Tavares (an outsider) BEFORE signing Matthews, Marner, Nylander, etc., and so of course none of those guys would have been willing to adhere to an internal cap structure to encourage “buy in” (to serve the greater good).  Why would they?  Lol.  
 

As the last eleven years have proven, teams with cost controlled elite talent + bigger investment in depth will always annihilate a top heavy team with a gross over-alloted cap toward its star players.

 

Its one of the reasons why Pittsburgh played second fiddle to LA, Chicago, and Boston from 2010-2015.  It’s one of the reasons why Mackinnon’s Avalanche is far superior to McDavid’s Oilers.  Who would you rather have?  Mackinnon at 6 million, or McDavid at 12?   
 

Cap hits and AAV’s are king.  Everyone has to get paid eventually (as Chicago and La’s players did), but teams need to create that window in which everyone has a really effing good cap hit!    

This is where the Canucks will be on October 1st 2022.  All by design.

[Patel Bure]

11 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Toronto 2021 Playoffs

 

Austin Matthews - 1 Goal - 11.64 M Cap Hit

Mitch Marner - 0 Goals - 10.903 M Cap Hit

 

Total - 1 Goal - 22.543 M Cap Hit (Still with TO till 2024)

 

 

Vancouver 2020 Playoffs

 

Jay Beagle - 1 Goal - 3 M Cap Hit

Antoine Roussel - 2 Goals - 3 M Cap Hit

Brandon Sutter - 1 Goal - 4.375 M Cap Hit

Loui Eriksson - 0 Goals - 6 M Cap Hit

 

Total - 4 Goals - 16.375 M Cap Hit  (All Gone by 2022)

 

For all those that complain about our bad cap hits, you get these Toronto players who perform so well when it is the most important time of the year. LOL!

 

Not only that, but all/most of our bad cap hits will be off the books before October 1st 2022 when our real window begins, while Toronto will still be straddled with top heavy contracts.

 

I don’t doubt that Toronto will eventually make the 2nd or even 3rd round with their current core, but they’ll be hard pressed to defeat teams that have followed the winning “cost controlled elite talent + depth” model that has been king for the past 11 years.

 

Want to get a glimpse of the future of hockey?   Just look at cap hits (ie Colorado, Carolina, New York Islanders, Florida, Vancouver in 22/23, etc).

Edited June 1, 2021 by Patel Bure

[FaninMex]

2 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I see what you’re saying to an extent, but I’m not sure if I agree with completely about Matthew’s and Marner.

 

Both players are wonderful hockey players, as is Tavares.   Toronto’s biggest problem however is that they paid everyone premium money before having won anything!   
 

If you look at all of the cup winners since 2010, all of these teams had their core players on relatively low AAV% post RFA deals.  
 

Toronto’s biggest problem is that they paid HUGE for Tavares (an outsider) BEFORE signing Matthews, Marner, Nylander, etc., and so of course none of those guys would have been willing to adhere to an internal cap structure to encourage “buy in” (to serve the greater good).  Why would they?  Lol.  
 

As the last eleven years have proven, teams with cost controlled elite talent + bigger investment in depth will always annihilate a top heavy team with a gross over-alloted cap toward its star players.

 

Its one of the reasons why Pittsburgh played second fiddle to LA, Chicago, and Boston from 2010-2015.  It’s one of the reasons why Mackinnon’s Avalanche is far superior to McDavid’s Oilers.  Who would you rather have?  Mackinnon at 6 million, or McDavid at 12?   
 

Cap hits and AAV’s are king.  Everyone has to get paid eventually (as Chicago and La’s players did), but teams need to create that window in which everyone has a really effing good cap hit!    

This is where the Canucks will be on October 1st 2022.  All by design.

You are agreeing with me without realizing it.

 

They are entitled brats that play for their glory and the paycheck. They do not have to win because there is no reason for them too.

Remember Messier, he came to Vancouver to collect a paycheck, not make the playoffs so that he could protect his body and play more years collecting his paychecks.

I see a lot of that same attitude in Mathews

 

[fanfor42]

The Leafs have not won a series since 2004.  Think about that.

 

We live in a world where the Toronto media has made us all forget that is what actually has happened. 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by fanfor42

[wallstreetamigo]

Its possible that the Leafs rebuild plan failed and so did the Canucks. One has no impact on the other.

 

They have lost in the first round a lot, which gives me great joy, but the Canucks havent even made the playoffs more than once on a play in. Hard to slag the Leafs for winning nothing yet and at the same time praising the Canucks for winning nothing yet.

 

What the Canucks do this offseason will be a huge determining factor in how their plan will ultimately judged. If they make the same moves as previously, it will likely continue to flounder. If they do things differently and effectively, maybe they csn turn it around and start being successful.

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, fanfor42 said:

The Leafs have not won a series since 1994.  Think about that.  Greg Adams scored and eliminated the Leafs in 1994. We moved on to the SCF and they have not won a series since then.

 

Think about that.

 

We live in a world where the Toronto media has made us all forget that is what actually has happened. 

 

 

I think the Leafs won a few series post 1994, but haven’t won since 2004.

 

So - by 650 Sportsnet logic, along with JD Burke and HF Canucks “logic,” the Lesfs haven’t had a plan for 17 years!

 

I mean its only fair that we analyze them like that right?  Particularly when the aforementioned “pundits” pretend like our 2nd round playoff appearance last year didn’t actually happen.

[c00kies]

Tbf they were missing Tavares for the series...

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

TO's defence + goalie was worse then Mtl D + goalie I don't think it's rocket science. Really the TO Defence is likely on par with Vcr defence and their goaltending worse.

 

Isle beat Boston and Scott Mayfield looking good

Toronto's defense is nowhere near as good as Vancouver's.  We have guys in the AHL who are better than any of their guys not named Muzzin or Brodie, and their highest paid guy refuses to even try to learn how to play defense.

[TNucks1]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

TO's defence + goalie was worse then Mtl D + goalie I don't think it's rocket science. Really the TO Defence is likely on par with Vcr defence and their goaltending worse.

 

Isle beat Boston and Scott Mayfield looking good

did MayField ever come back after getting that cross check too the back of the dome.?

[davidgoliath]

Once again the power of great goaltending is demonstrated. We are very fortunate to have Demko and have him on a friendly contract - assuming he plays consistently to his potential. Makes me wonder why there was such drama about the Ian Clark contract. We all knew it had to be done and the Canucks management looked either mean, cheap or stupid in risking him leaving.

 

The Leafs series was the dullest of all the series being played so far. Very little hitting, very little passion. Dull and uninspired. That worked in favour of the Habs. The Leafs would get absolutely hammered by every other team that is still playing. They are waaay too soft.

 

I don’t know who hit Muzzin and put him out but that guy, and Perry who took out Tavares, could have had the biggest impact in the Habs win.

[Patel Bure]

20 minutes ago, c00kies said:

Tbf they were missing Tavares for the series...

And to be fair, 6 of our top 9 forwards and 4 of our top 6 defensemen were playing with severe injuries during the 2011 finals......and no one cares.  We played without one of the Sedins when we played the Kings in 2012.  Did anyone in the media care or point this out?
 

“to be fair” has no relevance in the world of hockey unfortunately.   It all boils down to results.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Dazzle]

21 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Its possible that the Leafs rebuild plan failed and so did the Canucks. One has no impact on the other.

 

They have lost in the first round a lot, which gives me great joy, but the Canucks havent even made the playoffs more than once on a play in. Hard to slag the Leafs for winning nothing yet and at the same time praising the Canucks for winning nothing yet.

 

What the Canucks do this offseason will be a huge determining factor in how their plan will ultimately judged. If they make the same moves as previously, it will likely continue to flounder. If they do things differently and effectively, maybe they csn turn it around and start being successful.

You're missing a major point in this post.

 

Much of the media has smugly pointed out that Vancouver's rebuild/retool plan has failed, while Toronto's team (and the darling of Canada) is the example of a well-built team. Obviously not.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. Once you make the playoffs, some teams just do better. There isn't a 'right' answer otherwise teams would've utilized it already.

SO no, Toronto isn't any better than Vancouver or any other team. They just blew a 3-1 series lead, which actually happens quite a bit. Price was playing like a god. If Montreal lost, it would've been like Vancouver and Demko.

 

At this point, being first in the division is meaningless. If Vancouver had to suck, these two years would have been better years because of the lack of revenue. Once COVID is mostly dealt with, I see Vancouver surging.

[c00kies]

Just now, Patel Bure said:

And to be fair, 6 of our top 9 forwards and 4 of our top 6 defensemen were playing with severe injuries during the 2011 finals......and no one cares.
 

“to be fair” has no relevance in the world of hockey unfortunately.   It all boils down to results.

 

 

Oh 100% the injuries killed us in 2011, but people overlooked the injuries because it didn't fit the narrative they wanted. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

56 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Toronto 2021 Playoffs

 

Austin Matthews - 1 Goal - 11.64 M Cap Hit

Mitch Marner - 0 Goals - 10.903 M Cap Hit

 

Total - 1 Goal - 22.543 M Cap Hit (Still with TO till 2024)

 

 

Vancouver 2020 Playoffs

 

Jay Beagle - 1 Goal - 3 M Cap Hit

Antoine Roussel - 2 Goals - 3 M Cap Hit

Brandon Sutter - 1 Goal - 4.375 M Cap Hit

Loui Eriksson - 0 Goals - 6 M Cap Hit

 

Total - 4 Goals - 16.375 M Cap Hit  (All Gone by 2022)

 

For all those that complain about our bad cap hits, you get these Toronto players who perform so well when it is the most important time of the year. LOL!

 

That's a sweet turn of the tables on the many, scrambling haterz.