With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

[RU SERIOUS]

5 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Sat Shah, Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

 

It wasn’t supposed to be this way.  
 

“We” were told by “the pundits” that the Leafs, under “Shanaplan” were rebuilding the correct way and that the Canucks way was absurd.

 

”We” were told by “the pundits” that the Leafs model was a model of excellence and that it would only be a matter of time before the Leafs took the torch from the Pens, Hawks, and Kings.

 

The Boston method - is the way to go.   Just ask Don.

 

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

24 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

The neatest thing is that Montreal rounded out its lineup with some reasonably priced - experienced players, especially that player called "Tyler Toffoli".  He not only led their team in points in the regular season with 44 points in 52 games but leads them in playoff points too at 5 in 7 games.   I'm sure our brilliant GM would love to find a guy like that instead of say a marginal player like hmmm, Lazy Jake at just $1.5M less.   Maybe Uncle Jim can show his apparent wisdom in the off season again and pick up a player like TT.

 

Oh, yea he did already.........................and let him walk away (After giving up a 2nd round pick too!!!!)

 

19 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Hope that helped...

Sorry to intervene on the Uncle Jim "Love fest" but........somebody has to bring people back down to earth!     Fact of the matter is we're out of the playoffs AGAIN and the rebuild/retool/retardation, continues........under Uncle Jim, so absolutely no one should have the nerve to say JB is doing "a swell" job.   

 

STILL NO RESULTS - NOW GOING INTO YEAR 8.............................and counting!

 

          

Edited June 1, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[Angry Goose]

32 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

 

Sorry to intervene on the Uncle Jim "Love fest" but........somebody has to bring people back down to earth!     Fact of the matter is we're out of the playoffs AGAIN and the rebuild/retool/retardation, continues........under Uncle Jim, so absolutely no one should have the nerve to say JB is doing "a swell" job.   

 

STILL NO RESULTS - NOW GOING INTO YEAR 8.............................and counting!

 

          

context matters

[Ur a Towel]

4 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

context matters

I wouldn't bother with him. He's one of the bigger trolls on this site.  Just ignore and move on, he'll stop eventually when people stop giving him attention. 

[spook007]

6 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Ehh....  I kind of have to feel bad for the Leafs.  They've been an amazing team during the regular season but have just run into some good teams over the years of THIS core.  I honestly wouldn't touch anything there, they just need a better coach with a little bit more of a buy-in from everyone. Who knows, maybe one more year under this coach might be beneficial as well to improve on their system.  

 

It just dawned on me that we witnessed a Manny Malhotra vs. Alex Burrows matchup in this round.  I am not surprised that we're seeing a lot of those guys (Sedins now too) go on to pursue management/coachin careers in hockey.  We had talent but more importantly hockey IQ during that 4-5 year run.  

 

Who knows, maybe one day Manny or Burr will get their next promotion from assistant coach to coach with us. 

 

 

 

Don't feel bad for laughs... because of the media, but yes good to see the old core getting into management.... 

They would get a lot of love if they ever returned to Vancouver in a coaching position...

Edited June 1, 2021 by spook007

[spook007]

5 hours ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

Sympathy sex

He'll be going like a rabbit... lots to get through...

Edited June 1, 2021 by spook007

[DSVII]

4 hours ago, RomanP said:

Any plan is only as good as the result of its execution. If the execution fails - the plan wasn’t good. Just ask Karl Marx.

This is exactly the line of thinking that caused us to follow the boston model after 2011.

 

And I pray the Leafs follow this exact line of reasoning.

[JM_]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

 

Sorry to intervene on the Uncle Jim "Love fest" but........somebody has to bring people back down to earth!     Fact of the matter is we're out of the playoffs AGAIN and the rebuild/retool/retardation, continues........under Uncle Jim, so absolutely no one should have the nerve to say JB is doing "a swell" job.   

 

STILL NO RESULTS - NOW GOING INTO YEAR 8.............................and counting!

 

          

 

and yet, Uncle Jim's team has more playoff success than Dubas'. Huh. 

 

[JM_]

5 hours ago, RomanP said:

Any plan is only as good as the result of its execution. If the execution fails - the plan wasn’t good. Just ask Karl Marx.

or it just means things were poorly managed. 

[Dazzle]

6 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The Leafs have actually managed to put a pretty decent support group in place considering their huge albatross contracts at the top of their forward group.

 

 

Let me give you a different perspective. 

If your top forward is making 6 million (and sitting in the press box but lets leave that one lol), your top dman is making 6 mil, your two best players are still on ELC, and your other top 6 players and young goalie are on very good cap hits, wouldnt you think that theoretically that GM should actually have a much easier time putting together a supporting cast than a team with 3 or 4 forwards with 10 mil or so cap hits?

 

I dislike the Leafs and think Dubas is a punk, but you cant deny that despite it being very costly in trades, etc, he has done as good a job as anyone could expect surrounding that core group.

 

Of course its still kind of overall garbage. But if you look at what he built with the constraints he inposed on himself, I have to begrudgingly give the guy some credit.

Well I would hope so, after so many years...

 

You fail to consider the the Leafs have had Matthews and Marner, which technically should have made the Leafs competition easier. Have we actually won a lottery? Aside from the Sedins, our draft picks have been largely lower than Toronto. What gives? Does it mean we were more successful than Toronto?

 

Yet they do not truly demonstrate success In the form of cups. You know what's funny is that we can cherrypick like you're doing to support what you want to see, but the reality is that Toronto as a whole has almost always been disappointers, regardless of their rosters.

 

If Benning were in the same position, doing the same moves as Dubas, would you really give Benning the same credit? I'm thinking no.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Dazzle

[brownky]

12 hours ago, Slegr said:

I’m hoping this hilarious Leaf disaster helps convince Petey and Hughes to take a bit of a cut on contracts, recognizing that to win, you need a balance throughout the line up.

Them and the Oilers.

 

Tie it all up in two guys, lose.

 

Nate MacKinnon in Colorado is on a team friendly deal (and lets be honest, it's not hurting him either) and as a result they have... more than one line.

 

I'll be shocked if they don't win it, but I don't see anybody in "the west" who is going to stop that juggernaut.

 

Sakic's built a hell of a powerhouse.

[theo5789]

12 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

The funny thing about the Leafs is that they probably would have been better off avoiding Tavares altogether.   
 

Committing to depth players like JVR, Bozak, and Kadri, would not only have given the team more depth but also wouldn’t have blown the lid off the internal cap.  Guys like Nylander, Marner, Matthews, etc., would have been far more likely to take friendlier cap deals in order to “build a winner and serve the greater good” (a la LA, Chicago, Boston, etc.)

 

Cost controlled elite talent + depth = championships has been the model since 2010 Chicago.

To me, the problem wasn't Tavares. Toronto would've been a much different team had he not been injured. The problem was when Nylander held out and Dubas caved. They had a "plan" and at that point I think the plan got destroyed because of Dubas' arrogance in suggesting they will get all of their RFAs signed and overpaid losing cap flexibility. Matthews and Marner's agents were salivating as soon as Dubas caved on Nylander. Now Nylander was one of their better players these playoffs, but they would've been able to build a better overall team (even with Tavares) had they moved Nylander to help with their defense and not giving in to his demands (which may have had an effect on the Matthews and Marner contracts as well).

 

Personally, I don't think JVR, Bozak, and Kadri would've moved the needle for them either. They had them and it didn't make much difference either. I liked the Tavares signing to pair with Matthews as their top 2 centermen. They overpaid on wing with Nylander and Marner, but I would've kept Marner over Nylander (and kept Kapanen instead although there was a rift between him and Matthews apparently).

[RomanP]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

or it just means things were poorly managed. 

Which means, it wasn’t properly planned. Good plan should account for the individuals that will try to implement it.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, RomanP said:

Which means, it wasn’t properly planned. Good plan should account for the individuals that will try to implement it.

Unless the person tasked with running the whole thing is an idiot.  

[PhillipBlunt]

F' the Laffs.

[RomanP]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Unless the person tasked with running the whole thing is an idiot.  

Which is again an issue with planning.

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

To me, the problem wasn't Tavares. Toronto would've been a much different team had he not been injured. The problem was when Nylander held out and Dubas caved. They had a "plan" and at that point I think the plan got destroyed because of Dubas' arrogance in suggesting they will get all of their RFAs signed and overpaid losing cap flexibility. Matthews and Marner's agents were salivating as soon as Dubas caved on Nylander. Now Nylander was one of their better players these playoffs, but they would've been able to build a better overall team (even with Tavares) had they moved Nylander to help with their defense and not giving in to his demands (which may have had an effect on the Matthews and Marner contracts as well).

 

Personally, I don't think JVR, Bozak, and Kadri would've moved the needle for them either. They had them and it didn't make much difference either. I liked the Tavares signing to pair with Matthews as their top 2 centermen. They overpaid on wing with Nylander and Marner, but I would've kept Marner over Nylander (and kept Kapanen instead although there was a rift between him and Matthews apparently).

 

Move Nylander for a D back when/before he sat out, that trickles down to Matthews and Marner taking less and having a better D and likely being able to keep a Kapanen and/or other support pieces.

 

I'm also not convinced Matthews is a 'championship' player, as good as he is. So there's that too. I half wonder if they should just bite the bullet on that... He'd return a HELL of a hall if management came to the same conclusion...

 

And then there's the hubris of thinking they could break the curse of Thorton.

Edited June 1, 2021 by aGENT

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, RomanP said:

Which is again an issue with planning.

I guess you've never been in management. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Well I would hope so, after so many years...

 

You fail to consider the the Leafs have had Matthews and Marner, which technically should have made the Leafs competition easier. Have we actually won a lottery? Aside from the Sedins, our draft picks have been largely lower than Toronto. What gives? Does it mean we were more successful than Toronto?

 

Yet they do not truly demonstrate success In the form of cups. You know what's funny is that we can cherrypick like you're doing to support what you want to see, but the reality is that Toronto as a whole has almost always been disappointers, regardless of their rosters.

 

If Benning were in the same position, doing the same moves as Dubas, would you really give Benning the same credit? I'm thinking no.

When did I say Toronto hasnt been "disappointers"? My point isnt that Toronto has built a great team. My point is their supporting players are not terrible considering the horrible contracts at the top of their lineup. Its all relative.

 

If you are going to handcuff yourself with overpriced contracts, doing so on impact players rather than bottom 6, AHL bound, and press box players is at least less of a waste.

 

Any GM who can maneuver around some truly bad contracts deserves some credit for that. Doesnt mean they dont also deserve to be criticized for signing the stupid deals in the first place.

[RomanP]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess you've never been in management. 

Now, this is funny. I only own a successful business for 20+ years, but I guess I’ve never been in management lol. Perhaps, as a manager, you are hiring wrong people to accomplish your plans. Or you don’t provide adequate training to people, tasked with implementing your plans. And after your plans fail, you find a scapegoat in a poor employee who was never properly equipped to carry out your plan. Completely ignoring the real root cause of an issue. Carry on.