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With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess you've never been in management. 

Now, this is funny. I only own a successful business for 20+ years, but I guess I’ve never been in management lol. Perhaps, as a manager, you are hiring wrong people to accomplish your plans. Or you don’t provide adequate training to people, tasked with implementing your plans. And after your plans fail, you find a scapegoat in a poor employee who was never properly equipped to carry out your plan. Completely ignoring the real root cause of an issue. Carry on.

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6 minutes ago, RomanP said:

Now, this is funny. I only own a successful business for 20+ years, but I guess I’ve never been in management lol. Perhaps, as a manager, you are hiring wrong people to accomplish your plans. Or you don’t provide adequate training to people, tasked with implementing your plans. And after your plans fail, you find a scapegoat in a poor employee who was never properly equipped to carry out your plan. Completely ignoring the real root cause of an issue. Carry on.

small business is great, but its not everything. I spent nearly 10 years in consulting presenting very well constructed plans to people in government that died on the desks of idiots. 

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14 hours ago, Patel Bure said:


 

It really does make you wonder though eh?  If the Canucks are supposedly into year 7 of their rebuild “without a plan,” then what does that make Toronto?  Year 17?   Because the aforementioned “pundits” can brag all they want about Toronto’s deep team, but they still haven’t won a round since 2004!   Meanwhile, teams like Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver have all made the 2nd round Atleast once.  
 

 

Since 04  Flames, Oilers, Senators, Canucks have made the finals and rebuilt again.  senators and jets and canadiens made conference finals as well before rebuilding again.  And Considering Winnipeg wasn't even there until 11, I'd consider that successful as well.  Just the laffs can't put it together with their 8 figure salaries

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47 minutes ago, RomanP said:

Now, this is funny. I only own a successful business for 20+ years, but I guess I’ve never been in management lol. Perhaps, as a manager, you are hiring wrong people to accomplish your plans. Or you don’t provide adequate training to people, tasked with implementing your plans. And after your plans fail, you find a scapegoat in a poor employee who was never properly equipped to carry out your plan. Completely ignoring the real root cause of an issue. Carry on.

To compare your business to what you want with the Canucks, the question is .... Is your business the best out there?  That's how you're measuring the Canucks.  So unless that answer is yes, I guess you're failing.  The Canucks are a "successful" business.  They make money.  That's not what we're all after though now is it?

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11 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

The bottom line for me is that since 2015 the celebrated "Shanaplan" has only produced 2 more playoff wins than the maligned "No-Plan Benning" with 11 to 9 and only 1 more if you want to include the play in round last year, which I don't, 13 to 12. And Vancouver has won 1 more playoff round in that time, granted it's only a ratio of 1 to 0, again 2 to 0 if you count the play in round.

 

I'm not saying one rebuild is better than the other, and yes I'm saying rebuild because even if management never said it and the anti Benning people love to cling on to that retool word, we have been rebuilding since the end of 2015. All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to successfully rebuild a team and you can't definitively say one is better than the other. 

 

We have been rebuilding basically as long as Shanahan has been and in the last 3 years we have more playoff wins. We may not have as many regular season wins or awards but just ask the players how much that Rocket Richard Trophy or Division Title means compared to the Stanley Cup.

 

Last season our team began our upward climb and we would of continued trending in that direction this season if not for us having to play 56 games in 100 days, I can't even imagine the level of exhaustion and fatigue the players felt by the end of the season. Our upward trajectory will continue next season and we will all see more of the benefit of the "No-Plan" rebuild.

It's entirely possible, that the next Canadian teams to give hope to all Canadians will be Vancouver and Ottawa.   Right not WNP, EDM, MTL and TO hold the mantle.   But every single one of them is flawed too.   Flawed in time.   TO knows their window is closing.  And that all-in year after to year just to win a series is going to bite them in the ass.  WNP has some staying power but their window is now and the next couple of years.    Maybe they can extend it time will tell.   MTL is a mish mash.  Like NYR and partially because of their avid market (like NYR) they just won't make it.    This might be their best chance right now, same as WNP.    EDM is cap flawed.    Too easy to shut one of the two down ... all it takes.   For me at least, Van and OTT have the best chances of emerging into the next great white North hopes. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, D-Money said:

It's 7 games, you can't go by such a short sample size...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... :bigblush:

My equipment is only 7 mm in length.  Don't judge me by my small sample size.  Unfortunately that line didn't work for me this past weekend.

 

:ph34r:

Edited by NewbieCanuckFan
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59 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

When did I say Toronto hasnt been "disappointers"? My point isnt that Toronto has built a great team. My point is their supporting players are not terrible considering the horrible contracts at the top of their lineup. Its all relative.

 

If you are going to handcuff yourself with overpriced contracts, doing so on impact players rather than bottom 6, AHL bound, and press box players is at least less of a waste.

 

Any GM who can maneuver around some truly bad contracts deserves some credit for that. Doesnt mean they dont also deserve to be criticized for signing the stupid deals in the first place.

The results don't really support your praise for Toronto. The Canucks got through one more round with our 'overpaid' bottom 6, despite Toronto having the 'superior' roster. I know it's not an exact comparison. The whole point I wanted to make is that Toronto is not really a model to follow.

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7 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

To compare your business to what you want with the Canucks, the question is .... Is your business the best out there?  That's how you're measuring the Canucks.  So unless that answer is yes, I guess you're failing.  The Canucks are a "successful" business.  They make money.  That's not what we're all after though now is it?

Fans keep forgetting this is the goal aquaman is after as much as he says he wants a cup. 

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20 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

The bottom line for me is that since 2015 the celebrated "Shanaplan" has only produced 2 more playoff wins than the maligned "No-Plan Benning" with 11 to 9 and only 1 more if you want to include the play in round last year, which I don't, 13 to 12. And Vancouver has won 1 more playoff round in that time, granted it's only a ratio of 1 to 0, again 2 to 0 if you count the play in round.

 

I'm not saying one rebuild is better than the other, and yes I'm saying rebuild because even if management never said it and the anti Benning people love to cling on to that retool word, we have been rebuilding since the end of 2015. All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to successfully rebuild a team and you can't definitively say one is better than the other. 

 

We have been rebuilding basically as long as Shanahan has been and in the last 3 years we have more playoff wins. We may not have as many regular season wins or awards but just ask the players how much that Rocket Richard Trophy or Division Title means compared to the Stanley Cup.

 

Last season our team began our upward climb and we would of continued trending in that direction this season if not for us having to play 56 games in 100 days, I can't even imagine the level of exhaustion and fatigue the players felt by the end of the season. Our upward trajectory will continue next season and we will all see more of the benefit of the "No-Plan" rebuild.

This is so well said. The only difference between the perception of the success is the media's role.  Shanahan's plan is objectively no better than Benning's. Saying that Toronto has a 'decent core' is setting a pretty low bar, considering they have freaking Matthews in their lineup.

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33 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

ranted it's only a ratio of 1 to 0,

So, does that mean the Canucks are 100% better than the Leafs?       

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

The results don't really support your praise for Toronto. The Canucks got through one more round with our 'overpaid' bottom 6, despite Toronto having the 'superior' roster. I know it's not an exact comparison. The whole point I wanted to make is that Toronto is not really a model to follow.

When did I say it was?

 

My point is I dont compare the Canucks to teams like Buffalo, Toronto, etc to try to suggest they are doing great. They arent.

 

I compare them to actual top teams as my standards for a GM and team is not simply to be (arguably) better than train wreck franchises.

 

I am the last person who is trying to praise the leafs. I just dont see their train wreck as proof that the Canucks hasnt been a train wreck too.

Edited by wallstreetamigo
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7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's entirely possible, that the next Canadian teams to give hope to all Canadians will be Vancouver and Ottawa.   Right not WNP, EDM, MTL and TO hold the mantle.   But every single one of them is flawed too.   Flawed in time.   TO knows their window is closing.  And that all-in year after to year just to win a series is going to bite them in the ass.  WNP has some staying power but their window is now and the next couple of years.    Maybe they can extend it time will tell.   MTL is a mish mash.  Like NYR and partially because of their avid market (like NYR) they just won't make it.    This might be their best chance right now, same as WNP.    EDM is cap flawed.    Too easy to shut one of the two down ... all it takes.   For me at least, Van and OTT have the best chances of emerging into the next great white North hopes. 

I think WPG is much more sustainable than TOR, EDM and maybe MTL simply because they have a lot of guys like Scheifele, Ehlers, Connor, Hellebuyck and Morrissey locked up to long term and team friendly contracts, the only one current contract that is going to look bad very soon is paying Wheeler $8.25 mil until he's 38. Then it will all boil down to what kind of contract Dubios demands and how well their top D prospects pan out.

 

MTL I'm not sure about again it'll come down to the next contracts for Kotkaniemi and Suzuki as well as what they end up doing with Danault and how Caufield turns out, he looks pretty good so far.

 

OTT is another crap shoot as they seem to be in a perpetual rebuild because they have an owner that never wants to spend to the cap and won't shell out any big money for his young players when they develop in to bona fide stars so he just trades them for more picks and prospects instead, because they are cheap. He seems to want to win with an entire team on ELCs or bridge deals.

 

EDM has no depth and tried to speed things up too much after getting McDavid and having Draisaitl turn in to a home run. Then add in the contracts they have with Neal and Kassian and the fact that Nuge, Barrie, Nurse, Puljujarvi and Klefbom (if he fully recovers) will all be looking for new contracts and probably raises on those contracts before Kass and Neal's Co tracts are up.

 

TOR is obviously all in right now. They have to win and do it as quickly as possible. They have 3 more years before Matthews walks as a 26 year old UFA. Campbell seems like he could allow them to let Anderson walk which would give them a little more financial flexibility but the biggest issue is going to be the big raise Reilly is going to want. He definitely going to want to be paid more than Brodie $5m and Muzzin $5.625m 

 

VAN is going to really depend on what happens this off season. Will our RFAs be willing to take team friendly deals, preferably long term a la WPG and can we find some cheap and effective contracts in the bottom of the line up while simply being patient enough to just let our current overpaid contracts expire instead of buying them out and prolonging the cap hit for a short term gain and nailing it on our 1st and 2nd round picks this summer wouldn't hurt either. If our core are willing to take less money as a whole to allow management to keep them all together we could be set up very well for a very long time. Especially with Friedmann reporting in his latest 31 Thoughts that it's sounding like the cap will remain flat through 2024-25.

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58 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

The bottom line for me is that since 2015 the celebrated "Shanaplan" has only produced 2 more playoff wins than the maligned "No-Plan Benning" with 11 to 9 and only 1 more if you want to include the play in round last year, which I don't, 13 to 12. And Vancouver has won 1 more playoff round in that time, granted it's only a ratio of 1 to 0, again 2 to 0 if you count the play in round.

 

I'm not saying one rebuild is better than the other, and yes I'm saying rebuild because even if management never said it and the anti Benning people love to cling on to that retool word, we have been rebuilding since the end of 2015. All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to successfully rebuild a team and you can't definitively say one is better than the other. 

 

We have been rebuilding basically as long as Shanahan has been and in the last 3 years we have more playoff wins. We may not have as many regular season wins or awards but just ask the players how much that Rocket Richard Trophy or Division Title means compared to the Stanley Cup.

 

Last season our team began our upward climb and we would of continued trending in that direction this season if not for us having to play 56 games in 100 days, I can't even imagine the level of exhaustion and fatigue the players felt by the end of the season. Our upward trajectory will continue next season and we will all see more of the benefit of the "No-Plan" rebuild.

What I find interesting about the two rebuilds (and without going into depth) I might argue both teams struggled in free agency?

 

I would not have signed Jonny T if I was in Toronto I always thought that was overkill.

 

Canucks free agents - well let's not go there but there are a couple I wouldn't have signed. 

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  • Patel Bure changed the title to With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

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