With the Leafs loss to the Habs, guys like Rick Dhaliwal,Thomas Drance, JD Burke, 650 Sportsnet, and HF Canucks have received VERY huge blows

[King Heffy]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Colton Parayko is a UFA come 2022. Don't waste cap space on Larsson.

Manson would be an excellent plan B as well.  A Parayko signing could do for us what Chara did for Boston.

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Colton Parayko is a UFA come 2022. Don't waste cap space on Larsson.

Agreed to an extent but we will also have more cap coming off the books in 2022 (ie under my scenario in which we use a minor sweetener to move Eriksson in this off season, we then use the freed up money from Beagle and Roussel to target someone else).   
 

I don’t mind signing a guy like Parayko, but “waiting” for him is risky.  Furthermore, Canucks management needs to demonstrate to both fans, media, and personnel within the organization that they aren’t happy with “standing Pat” after a losing season.  They need to make *some* moves to reassure the players.

 

Last point - it’s not so much about “who is better than who,” but rather, “who is better value for the money?”   
 

Parayko is better than Adam Larsson, but Larsson will likely cost between 6-6.5 million while Parayko will likely cost MUCH more.  With the freed up money that we’d save in signing Larsson over a guy like Parayko per se, maybe we could use a part of that freed up money to shore up other areas? (Like a better 3rd line center for example).   Just my thought.

[Dazzle]

22 minutes ago, Provost said:

Over one 7 game series they were... I certainly wouldn’t take them winning over a larger sample size.  Over a short sample size there are too many other variables at play to say who is better.... injuries, cold streaks, hot goaltenders, random puck luck, etc 

 

12 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yes they are.  You even know it is silly to take two games and extrapolate from that.

 

We were 0-2 against them last year and had a losing record against them this year.  More importantly, they have been near the top of the standings over the last few years while the Canucks have been near the bottom.

And here we have you setting these 'conditions' when making a statement.

 

Montreal was better, but the sample size is too small, according to you, which translates to:  *I'm going to ignore the fact that Montreal came back from BEHIND 3 games to 1, and won in Game 7.

There are too many variables at play for the Canucks as well: A series of poor schedules, and a lack of practice; bad injuries to core players (i.e. Pettersson), but also to players like Ferland who could've made a difference; and COVID.

 

Seems like you're blatantly ignoring factors that are inconvenient to your position.

 

What would have happened if the Canucks were healthy? The Canucks' roster has (with Tanev/Markstrom/Stetcher) has gotten to round 2. Toronto with their superior, healthy roster did not. Different time frames, but the point remains the same. Is Toronto REALLY that good?

 

Apparently not. Because season success didn't translate into playoff success, otherwise we'd see a dominant performance from Toronto. Meanwhile, Montreal was nervously watching the scores towards the second half of the season because they kept losing, and teams like Ottawa and Vancouver were slowly climbing upward.

[Bertuzzipunch]

8 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed to an extent but we will also have more cap coming off the books in 2022 (ie under my scenario in which we use a minor sweetener to move Eriksson in this off season, we then use the freed up money from Beagle and Roussel to target someone else).   
 

I don’t mind signing a guy like Parayko, but “waiting” for him is risky.  Furthermore, Canucks management needs to demonstrate to both fans, media, and personnel within the organization that they aren’t happy with “standing Pat” after a losing season.  They need to make *some* moves to reassure the players.

 

Last point - it’s not so much about “who is better than who,” but rather, “who is better value for the money?”   
 

Parayko is better than Adam Larsson, but Larsson will likely cost between 6-6.5 million while Parayko will likely cost MUCH more.  With the freed up money that we’d save in signing Larsson over a guy like Parayko per se, maybe we could use a part of that freed up money to shore up other areas? (Like a better 3rd line center for example).   Just my thought.

Most oiler fans believe larrson will cost under 4 aav

[mordekai]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

I am happy the Leafs lost.

 

At the same time, I think it is a huge logical mistake to somehow suggest that because they lost, we are somehow better?  That seems to be the idea here.  Those things aren’t connected at all.

 

Our team is worse than the Leafs right now.

 

I would rather have our team going forward than theirs.  Folks defend Benning by saying the pandemic and flat cap completely destroyed all his plans.

 

There probably isn’t a team worse off due to an ongoing flat cap for an expected several more years than Toronto is.  They signed their big players to huge contracts assuming that cap inflation would make them better deals down the road.  That isn’t just a Toronto thing, all teams do it... but Toronto just happened to do it more and at the wrong time.  Those contracts instead of getting better over time are going to stay overpaid and badly effect how they can build out the rest of their roster.  They aren’t always going to have a bunch of veterans come in and rescue them by playing for low dollars.

 

In our situation, our top guys are coming up for contracts during the worst economic conditions the NHL is likely to be in.  Everyone expects there will be an effectively flat cap for the next 3-5 years.  Presumably we will be able to negotiate extensions under those new realities.  Instead of paying $10 million and $8 million respectively for Petterson and Hughes, we are probably going to be more like $7-7.5 and $6-6.5 (hopefully for longer than a 3 year bridge term). The flexibility that will give us moving forward will be immense IF those two players continue to develop.

That’s not the point of OP

the point is media writers like Thomas drance wrote pretty clearly in the athletic that Jb has failed and should follow Shanaplan even though part of the shanaplan was winning the lottery plus getting Tavares at ufa and now the shanaplan has failed again for 8 years??? 
  

 

 

[Patel Bure]

7 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

That dude would be so perfect for the team.

I’d be open to this as well, but I’m also curious about......

 

1) how much cap space we’d save by choosing Larsson over Parayko (or Savard over CP)

2) how much that “saved” cap space can be used to shore up other areas (ie having enough money to bring in a good 3rd line center).   
 

I wonder how much Wenneberg + Savard would cost in their entirety?

[Patel Bure]

Just now, Bertuzzipunch said:

Most oiler fans believe larrson will cost under 4 aav

That’s really good value if that’s the case.  A guy like CP on the other hand would be about 3-4 million more would he not?   
 

the way I see it, Wenneberg + Larsson or Wenneberg + Savard would likely cost about the same as CP by himself.  If that’s the case, I’d rather take AW and AL / AW and DS.

[Bertuzzipunch]

1 minute ago, Patel Bure said:

I’d be open to this as well, but I’m also curious about......

 

1) how much cap space we’d save by choosing Larsson over Parayko (or Savard over CP)

2) how much that “saved” cap space can be used to shore up other areas (ie having enough money to bring in a good 3rd line center).   
 

I wonder how much Wenneberg + Savard would cost in their entirety?

Well we might be drafting a C this year that very well might join the team in a years time to be our third line center. Like mctavish lets say. Lets see who we draft first but im fine with savard and dont think hes really gonna cost that much in UFA. 

[IBatch]

34 minutes ago, Provost said:

Over one 7 game series they were... I certainly wouldn’t take them winning over a larger sample size.  Over a short sample size there are too many other variables at play to say who is better.... injuries, cold streaks, hot goaltenders, random puck luck, etc 

Nah.   MTL is better.   This was TO's year.   I'm sure a lot of blue tears are being shedding today.   Dubas now has to re-tool.   Soon.  He's got a lot of cheques out their that need cashing and i doubt he will ever get that many aging vets that interested ... maybe one more year after that back to their usual stuff. 

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Well we might be drafting a C this year that very well might join the team in a years time to be our third line center. Like mctavish lets say. Lets see who we draft first but im fine with savard and dont think hes really gonna cost that much in UFA. 

Good point.   This coming 2021 1st might have a chance of factoring into our 22-23 season (the season where I think our window will truly start).

[PhillipBlunt]

19 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

That dude would be so perfect for the team.

For sure. Size, skill, and smarts, and he can skate pretty well too. 

[PhillipBlunt]

17 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Manson would be an excellent plan B as well.  A Parayko signing could do for us what Chara did for Boston.

Manson and Parayko would be awesome. Manson being the more physical of the two. 

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed to an extent but we will also have more cap coming off the books in 2022 (ie under my scenario in which we use a minor sweetener to move Eriksson in this off season, we then use the freed up money from Beagle and Roussel to target someone else).   
 

I don’t mind signing a guy like Parayko, but “waiting” for him is risky.  Furthermore, Canucks management needs to demonstrate to both fans, media, and personnel within the organization that they aren’t happy with “standing Pat” after a losing season.  They need to make *some* moves to reassure the players.

 

Last point - it’s not so much about “who is better than who,” but rather, “who is better value for the money?”   
 

Parayko is better than Adam Larsson, but Larsson will likely cost between 6-6.5 million while Parayko will likely cost MUCH more.  With the freed up money that we’d save in signing Larsson over a guy like Parayko per se, maybe we could use a part of that freed up money to shore up other areas? (Like a better 3rd line center for example).   Just my thought.

The sweetener needed to move Eriksson will be significant, so that cost has to be added to the Larsson plan.  I'm not sure anyone takes LE for less than a first, which would be excessive for us to include.  I much prefer just letting our dead cap expire and use next year to see what OJ and Rathbone can do 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Nah.   MTL is better.   This was TO's year.   I'm sure a lot of blue tears are being shedding today.   Dubas now has to re-tool.   Soon.  He's got a lot of cheques out their that need cashing and i doubt he will ever get that many aging vets that interested ... maybe one more year after that back to their usual stuff. 

Leafs might soon get passed by a really good, young, and hungry Ottawa team.  

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Manson and Parayko would be awesome. Manson being the more physical of the two. 

I remember seeing him destroy Myers after he hit a teammate.  Would be great to have him doing that for us.  

Hughes-Parayko

OJ-Manson

Rathbone-Myers

That's a solid group.

 

 

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Leafs might soon get passed by a really good, young, and hungry Ottawa team.  

I think Ottawa could be a playoff team next year with decent goaltending.  They got off to a disastrous start, but were really only awful against Edmonton.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I think Ottawa could be a playoff team next year with decent goaltending.  They got off to a disastrous start, but were really only awful against Edmonton.

How awesome would it be if Ottawa signs Freddy Anderson, and he takes them past the Leafs?  

[Bertuzzipunch]

14 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Manson and Parayko would be awesome. Manson being the more physical of the two. 

U imagine a top 4 of 

 

Quinn-Parayko
Rathbone-Manson

 

that’s figgen money rite der

 

[Dannydog]

What did it cost the leafs to ice this team? Any prospects or draft picks? I'm a 100% convinced the only reason they went all out this year was due to the North division alignment. kyle and staff figured they have the best opportunity of getting out of the first round because of last years domination of the Canadian teams as a whole. Love how that ended up.

[Patel Bure]

16 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

The sweetener needed to move Eriksson will be significant, so that cost has to be added to the Larsson plan.  I'm not sure anyone takes LE for less than a first, which would be excessive for us to include.  I much prefer just letting our dead cap expire and use next year to see what OJ and Rathbone can do 

Agreed.   No way I move Eriksson with a 1st as a sweetener.  
 

While i definitely see a benefit in letting our dead cap expire, I think the players and fans also need assurance that management isn’t “standing Pat” and that this past season was not acceptable.   
 

My feeling is that Eriksson + 2nd + 3rd should get someone to take on Eriksson for his final year.  Marc Staal was able to be moved with a 2nd as a sweetener and he carried a 5.7 million dollar cap hit.   Staal is certainly more valuable than Eriksson, but not by a wide margin.  An added 3rd rounder should be enough to 2nd round sweetener should equate to similar value.