Stop comparing the Canucks to the Leafs (they re-built wrong) Lets compare them to Colorado one of the current cup contenders in the league.

[IBatch]

Just now, Fred65 said:

I think that was my point few if any believe JV needs more time, some just cant handle it. OJ has been passed by Rathbone, he might make it on the third pairing but I have my reservation. I wouldn't be shocked if they cut and run, maybe a trade for a comparable RHD ? 

Anything can happen.  At this point JV is almost certainly toast in Vancouver.   Rathbone got some games - because OJ lost weight and wasn't 100% plus they want to try him out.   I doubt he's passed him on the depth chart just yet but you could be right.    Rathbone isn't much different the QHs - pint sized.   Do you really think we can run a L side with two sub sixers and OJ?   I have my doubts.    Rathbone is probably Stetcher 2.0 but on the l side.   Hope i'm wrong.   OJ played limited minutes but played a smart safe game that translates well too.   Hope all three make it work but have my doubts, and Rathbone wasn't picked to play early, only when OJ wasn't up to the task.    Hasn't passed him yet anyways.   Rathbone also makes QHs somewhat redundant doesn't he? 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I think that was my point few if any believe JV needs more time, some just cant handle it. OJ has been passed by Rathbone, he might make it on the third pairing but I have my reservation. I wouldn't be shocked if they cut and run, maybe a trade for a comparable RHD ? 

I will say i'm all for a RHD trade (again).   We can't trade Schmidt until that's sorted, because i doubt OJ or Rathbone are going to displace him on the L side once Edler is gone we will miss his size. 

 

Makes sense.   If we win the first overall pick tonight - would you trade that and LE's last year for Seth Jones and a re-sign?  I would. 

[Sbriggs]

8 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Colorado 1st round draft picks since 2013:

2013 1st overall MacKinnon

2014 23rd

2015 10th overall Rantenan

2016 10th overall Jost

2017 4th overall Makar

2018 16th overall

2019 4th Bowen Byram

2020 25th overall

 

That's one 1st overall, and 4 top 10 picks. Pretty sure if they re-drafted 2017 Makar would have gone 1st overall. 

If you go back to 2011 you have a #2 in Landeskog. 

 

So basically it has taken Colorado 10 years if you go by Landeskog's draft to build the powerhouse that they have now. 

 

 

 

common sense

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Anything can happen.  At this point JV is almost certainly toast in Vancouver.   Rathbone got some games - because OJ lost weight and wasn't 100% plus they want to try him out.   I doubt he's passed him on the depth chart just yet but you could be right.    Rathbone isn't much different the QHs - pint sized.   Do you really think we can run a L side with two sub sixers and OJ?   I have my doubts.    Rathbone is probably Stetcher 2.0 but on the l side.   Hope i'm wrong.   OJ played limited minutes but played a smart safe game that translates well too.   Hope all three make it work but have my doubts, and Rathbone wasn't picked to play early, only when OJ wasn't up to the task.    Hasn't passed him yet anyways.   Rathbone also makes QHs somewhat redundant doesn't he? 

Colorado seems to do OK with Makar and Girard ( both pint size ) and of course their two best D.  It's not what I'd propose but it can work eg Colorado. We do have some big D, Meyers Harmonic  Edler and Schmidt. Rathbone IMO  has surpassed OJ by a wide margin. Funny enough both OJ and JR have equal number of points the difference being JR played 8 games and OJ played 23, roughly the same weight and JR a plus player, OJ is a minus player and has been his entire Pro career in NA.

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I will say i'm all for a RHD trade (again).   We can't trade Schmidt until that's sorted, because i doubt OJ or Rathbone are going to displace him on the L side once Edler is gone we will miss his size. 

 

Makes sense.   If we win the first overall pick tonight - would you trade that and LE's last year for Seth Jones and a re-sign?  I would. 

Seth Jones is a premium NHL D and I suspect will not be moving. He and his agent are in a great spot

[Dumb Nuck]

Just as I suspected we have no identity so we have to compare ourselves to other teams, a real team gets compared to and that shows how bad we are.

[Arrow 1983]

.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Arrow 1983

[Sativika]

I do believe we're almost there. However, we're gonna see players come and go when we get to that point. I'm sure in addition to the young core at the present, there should be two, possibly three more in house prospect additions. Not so much impactful, but role/depth players on the cheap. The Doyds and Veseys of the world won't be around.  That being said....................................

 

.............It'd be nice to acquire a big stud dman that can play big minutes. Sure...Quinn's a stud, but we need a dman that can make a difference. We may have that in Scmidt or Hamonic, but they're not in the same league as the Hedman's of the world. I'm confident the Oli will pan out in at least an Edler in his prime, but he ain't there yet!

 

And I know we've been pining for a legit 3rd line centre, and I'm a believer that we've that in the prospect pool. However, if we need to seek one out, why not another JT Miller type. Surely when the time comes when we start looking at UFA's and such to shore up our existing core, one will be available of that ilk. By that time, Quinn/Pettey will be on contract and of the bad contracts will be dusted.

 

[butters]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:46 AM, McBackup said:

The Canucks are constantly compared to the Leafs because their rebuilds unofficially kicked off around the same time, and because the media will inevitably compare everything to Toronto.

 

 

But they didn't. The leafs were already rebuilding for years and then arbitrarily reset their rebuild.

 

They pushed that story around the time the Canadian media was dumping on the Canucks. And they were dumping on the Canucks in order to sell the reboot reset to Toronto fans.

Edited June 3, 2021 by butters

[Johnny Torts]

On 6/2/2021 at 2:40 PM, IBatch said:

Anything can happen.  At this point JV is almost certainly toast in Vancouver.   Rathbone got some games - because OJ lost weight and wasn't 100% plus they want to try him out.   I doubt he's passed him on the depth chart just yet but you could be right.    Rathbone isn't much different the QHs - pint sized.   Do you really think we can run a L side with two sub sixers and OJ?   I have my doubts.    Rathbone is probably Stetcher 2.0 but on the l side.   Hope i'm wrong.   OJ played limited minutes but played a smart safe game that translates well too.   Hope all three make it work but have my doubts, and Rathbone wasn't picked to play early, only when OJ wasn't up to the task.    Hasn't passed him yet anyways.   Rathbone also makes QHs somewhat redundant doesn't he? 

All this talk of OJ and toast and bones is making me hungry as &^@#

[McBackup]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:56 AM, butters said:

But they didn't. The leafs were already rebuilding for years and then arbitrarily reset their rebuild.

 

They pushed that story around the time the Canadian media was dumping on the Canucks. And they were dumping on the Canucks in order to sell the reboot reset to Toronto fans.

I don't know what your definition of "rebuild" is then. If you're "resetting" then you're starting anew, you're rebuilding. They broke down their old roster and started building again around a new core. Same as the Canucks. The fact that they only made the playoffs the once with the old core doesn't make it any less of a separate rebuild, otherwise you could argue the Canucks and Leafs have both been rebuilding since 1970 and 1967 respectfully. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by McBackup

[wallstreetamigo]

On 6/2/2021 at 12:55 AM, Arrow 1983 said:

 

Disclaimer I view the Canucks re-build as, on going due to the youth of the core (mainly Pettersson and Hughes due to the positions they play). That said big steps need to happen the next 2 years or this re-build will have to be considered failed as well. Due to the fact that the Canucks would then be wasting prime years of their young core.

 

Tor and Edm are just prime examples of what I have said many times here on this forum It starts with goaltending if you don't have it you can't expect to go to far without it. Both these teams have failed to learn this and therefor, both their re-builds have failed. 

 

Demko is far more important to the Canucks chances of success then Pettersson or Hughes. 

 

The last time I checked Demko is locked up for 5 years at 5 mill per that is one hell of a great contract for the Canucks. Next to be locked up are their #1 center (pettersson) who actually is a #1 center and their #1 defenseman (Hughes) who actually is a #1 dman. What I mean by that is they are top 31 or for next year top 32 centerman and Defenseman in the league (You could try and prove me wrong by naming 32 centers better then Pettersson or 32 Defenseman better than Hughes or even 32 Goalies better than Demko). Furthermore, last time I checked JB drafted them all. 

 

On top of that this team has a legit top 3 goals scoring winger (Boeser).  Whom JB drafted

 

On top of that a top 3 2 way winger who can also fill in at center and would be in his own right a top 2 centreman (JT Miller). Whom JB traded for which was a home run win for the Canucks.

 

Canucks also have a legit 2 way 2nd line center (show me 64 better centreman better than Horvat to prove me wrong). Whom was the only half decent prospect that JB inherited. Whom JB locked up on one of the Best contracts in the league all due in part by the fact that he doesn't hand out 10+mill contracts to players who haven't achieved anything in the playoffs. 

 

Honestly people are hyping Colorado right now for their style of play and Cap structure. I would argue JB has the Cap structure part down for his core players which was set when JB signed one of the best UFAs at the time in his class to a 6 year 6 mill per season contract (Loui Eriksson). Look at the 2 core guys that JB has signed Horvat 5.5 mill and Boeser 5.875 mill. Both are less then the Veteran Eriksson 6 mill. (to me this is the least talked about topic about the Canucks that is actually a very important point when it comes to the Eriksson signing it really has set the cap structure of this team) 

 

I would ask people to look at the age of Mackinnon (25) Landeskog (28) Rattanen (24) and compare that to Boeser (24), Miller (28), Pettersson (22), the biggest difference that you may notice is The top line center for the Canucks is younger than Colorado's and that matters when it comes to centers.

 

Compare Col and Canucks 2nd line center Kadri and Horvat and I would say the Canucks have the Advantage and again the Canucks center is younger 

 

Col has talented wingers, Burakovsky (26 years old) leads the way for them and the Canucks have Hogs and Pods ( both of whom where drafted by JB)

 

Colorado I would also point out didn't become a contender until they finally drafted a top #1 offensive Dman in Cale Maker but wait a second doesn't the Canucks have one of them as well in Hughes.

 

Furthermore, Col has a group of young talented defenseman rounded out by some older vets. So do the Canucks 

 

For my final point I refer back to what I originally said it all starts with the goaltender. This is where The Canucks might have the upper hand on Colorado. I take nothing away from Philipp Grubauer he is in his own right a starting goalie in this league and has played especially well in the playoffs. But he is actually having his best season as a starter this season at the age of 29 . Demko on the other hand has also played especially well in the playoffs last season and I would say even posted better numbers compared to Grubauer's. Moreover, Demko is 25 years old and far more developed than Grubauer was when he was 25. (side note when Grubauer was 25 he was backing-up Holtby in Wash).

 

Colorado's playoff chances could fall at the waist side of Phillipp Grubauer if he where to lose his form at any time.  

 

Conclusion. JB has built a team that could be compared to one of the Cup contenders of today and I would argue for the most part he hasn't just built but drafted a playoff team and future cup contender . The major difference is a couple of years. Colorado's core is just a couple years older than the Canucks core is and this is why as Canuck fans we should stay optimistic and hopeful of the Canucks future successes. The Truth is the Canucks were not going to be contenders this season and in turn JB will have another opportunity to bring in another piece to improve this team.

Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hughes, Petterssen, and Demko are a good core group.

 

Petterssen is a top line talent, no doubt about it. 

 

I think it might be a bit premature to say Hughes is a true #1 dman since a big part of that job is actually playing defense which he is below average at. Offensively yes, defensively no.

 

Boeser and Miller are not top 3 in the NHL at their positions. Cmon man, they are good but thats ridiculous. Boeser could be but is not at this point.

 

Horvat is a good 2nd line C. Hopefully the rest if the team can be built out so he doesnt have to be the sole shut down center and he can add more as an offensive player.

 

The Canucks have 1 promising young dman. 2 if you want to count Rathbone. And a bunch of vets. Take a look at the Avs D again. Its not just that they have Makar. Their D is loaded with top quality young guys either already there or on their way. Thats the biggest difference between the two teams. 

 

Demko is a good young goalie. He still has to show he can do it consistently though. Goalies typically take a lot longer to develop so hopefully the Canucks already have their guy and he will continue to be great. No reason to think he can't.

 

The Canucks have good core pieces in place but the rest of the team needs to be improved significantly to get to where Colorado is. I think the Canucks are at least 3 years away from being a playoff contender. That could be shortened a bit or lengthened a lot based on this offseason and next. 

[oldnews]

Jeez us.

 

Not another one.

[thrago]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hughes, Petterssen, and Demko are a good core group.

 

Petterssen is a top line talent, no doubt about it. 

 

I think it might be a bit premature to say Hughes is a true #1 dman since a big part of that job is actually playing defense which he is below average at. Offensively yes, defensively no.

 

Boeser and Miller are not top 3 in the NHL at their positions. Cmon man, they are good but thats ridiculous. Boeser could be but is not at this point.

 

Horvat is a good 2nd line C. Hopefully the rest if the team can be built out so he doesnt have to be the sole shut down center and he can add more as an offensive player.

 

The Canucks have 1 promising young dman. 2 if you want to count Rathbone. And a bunch of vets. Take a look at the Avs D again. Its not just that they have Makar. Their D is loaded with top quality young guys either already there or on their way. Thats the biggest difference between the two teams. 

 

Demko is a good young goalie. He still has to show he can do it consistently though. Goalies typically take a lot longer to develop so hopefully the Canucks already have their guy and he will continue to be great. No reason to think he can't.

 

The Canucks have good core pieces in place but the rest of the team needs to be improved significantly to get to where Colorado is. I think the Canucks are at least 3 years away from being a playoff contender. That could be shortened a bit or lengthened a lot based on this offseason and next. 

I'm pretty sure when he says top 3 he mean 1st liners like people say top 6 or bottom 6.

[EddieVedder]

On 6/2/2021 at 4:41 PM, Fred65 said:

Colorado seems to do OK with Makar and Girard ( both pint size ) and of course their two best D.  It's not what I'd propose but it can work eg Colorado. We do have some big D, Meyers Harmonic  Edler and Schmidt. Rathbone IMO  has surpassed OJ by a wide margin. Funny enough both OJ and JR have equal number of points the difference being JR played 8 games and OJ played 23, roughly the same weight and JR a plus player, OJ is a minus player and has been his entire Pro career in NA.

Colorados smaller D play with a lot more intensity in their own zone than our smaller D do.  Probably the best group of Dmen the league has seen in quite some time. 

[EddieVedder]

17 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hughes, Petterssen, and Demko are a good core group.

 

Petterssen is a top line talent, no doubt about it. 

 

I think it might be a bit premature to say Hughes is a true #1 dman since a big part of that job is actually playing defense which he is below average at. Offensively yes, defensively no.

 

Boeser and Miller are not top 3 in the NHL at their positions. Cmon man, they are good but thats ridiculous. Boeser could be but is not at this point.

 

Horvat is a good 2nd line C. Hopefully the rest if the team can be built out so he doesnt have to be the sole shut down center and he can add more as an offensive player.

 

The Canucks have 1 promising young dman. 2 if you want to count Rathbone. And a bunch of vets. Take a look at the Avs D again. Its not just that they have Makar. Their D is loaded with top quality young guys either already there or on their way. Thats the biggest difference between the two teams. 

 

Demko is a good young goalie. He still has to show he can do it consistently though. Goalies typically take a lot longer to develop so hopefully the Canucks already have their guy and he will continue to be great. No reason to think he can't.

 

The Canucks have good core pieces in place but the rest of the team needs to be improved significantly to get to where Colorado is. I think the Canucks are at least 3 years away from being a playoff contender. That could be shortened a bit or lengthened a lot based on this offseason and next. 

We are overestimating our own players.  Just because we have guys playing on the top line doesnt mean they are top line players.  Just look at the core of true contenders in Colorado, Tampa.

Aside from Petey, no one on our team has the potential to be a Kucherov, Point, Stamkos.  And we certainly dont have anyone with Hedman or Sergachev potential on the backend.  

[wallstreetamigo]

24 minutes ago, thrago said:

I'm pretty sure when he says top 3 he mean 1st liners like people say top 6 or bottom 6.

Then he would be right if thats what he meant. EP, Boeser, and Miller are all good 1st line quality players.

 

I dont see any of our group with the exception possibly of EP of being true game breaking, elite level talent at this point. Hughes and Boeser have the potential to be but arent there yet.

[philtbc829]

Yup watching the Avs play definitely makes me realise how far away the Nucks are from being true contenders...we need a GM and president like they have in Colorado...

The article in the province brings it home very clearly....

Sigh....

[Vinny in Vancouver]

Instead of Colorado, maybe we should be using the Habs as the measuring stick?  Just sayin'.

[EddieVedder]

18 hours ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Instead of Colorado, maybe we should be using the Habs as the measuring stick?  Just sayin'.

Why wouldnt we use a contender like Col as a measuring stick?  

The habs are a much deeper team than Vancouver at every position.