Stop comparing the Canucks to the Leafs (they re-built wrong) Lets compare them to Colorado one of the current cup contenders in the league.

[Me_]

I don’t see how a team is “built wrong” that is a very subjective statement from the OP.

 

Teams are individual capitalist ventures that are designed to attract money and success.

 

Some owners are satisfied with revenue only, while others are looking for the big prize; the Stanley Cup.

 

Currently, the Canucks are building an empire based on the current trend of building from within; drafting and development.

 

If that trend were to suddenly change, which it did when the cap was introduced, then the Canucks’ course of building through the draft and developing their own players could take a serious turn for the worse.

 

Trans are not built wrong. They are huit according to the desires of their owners, and hopefully, to the demands of their fans.

[Dr. Crossbar]

If there's any "concern" I have in comparing us with the Avs, it's the fact that we haven't drafted #1 and #2 plus the fact that we've struggled to make good on our #5 (Juolevi) and #6 (Virtanen). Huge holes for us as compared to the Avs, which I'm not sure if we can fill at this stage.  

[alucard]

I think leafs are where avs were some years ago, with a dechene-esque trade and a bottom-six retool they will get over the hump and hope they will.

Damn they need a stud leader-type D.

After nucks I am fan of all canadien teams, I hope Cup comes back to the north again and I hope canucks does it but after nucks then fan of other canadien teams and do root for them.

[alucard]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

If there's any "concern" I have in comparing us with the Avs, it's the fact that we haven't drafted #1 and #2 plus the fact that we've struggled to make good on our #5 (Juolevi) and #6 (Virtanen). Huge holes for us as compared to the Avs, which I'm not sure if we can fill at this stage.  

Olli will come good, he`s okay.

[Arrow 1983]

9 hours ago, Me_ said:

I don’t see how a team is “built wrong” that is a very subjective statement from the OP.

 

Teams are individual capitalist ventures that are designed to attract money and success.

 

Some owners are satisfied with revenue only, while others are looking for the big prize; the Stanley Cup.

 

Currently, the Canucks are building an empire based on the current trend of building from within; drafting and development.

 

If that trend were to suddenly change, which it did when the cap was introduced, then the Canucks’ course of building through the draft and developing their own players could take a serious turn for the worse.

 

Trans are not built wrong. They are huit according to the desires of their owners, and hopefully, to the demands of their fans.

I was referring to being a Cup contender so I stand by my statement they are built wrong

 

I would argue your statement as false all teams want to build to be a cup contender especially money driven ones. Playoff revenue is much higher than the regular season revenue by game. If a team (owner) wants to maximize its profits it could only do so by getting to the cup final. Not just to sell more tickets but also hotdogs bears and even Jersey sells go up. 

[iinatcc]

10 hours ago, Me_ said:

Currently, the Canucks are building an empire based on the current trend of building from within; drafting and development.

I am still waiting when the development part comes in especially in the AHL front. Besides the goalies how many NHL players did the Canucks already produce in the AHL system? 7 years in Benning's reign perhaps Gaudette and the organization decided to give up on him.

[Me_]

5 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I am still waiting when the development part comes in especially in the AHL front. Besides the goalies how many NHL players did the Canucks already produce in the AHL system? 7 years in Benning's reign perhaps Gaudette and the organization decided to give up on him.

You understand that all of Benning’s picks are NOT in the AHL?

 

That’s a lot of players who should “still” be in the AHL. But they’re on the big team with the big people.

 

Of course that’s going to have an effect on the farm.

 

Would you rather have Virtanen, McCaan, Juolevi, Hughes, Boeser, Podkolzi, Höglander and Pettersson on the farm team?

 

[Boudrias]

Watching the Avs/Vegas series and it comes home how far the Canucks have to go still. 

[iinatcc]

3 hours ago, Me_ said:

You understand that all of Benning’s picks are NOT in the AHL?

 

That’s a lot of players who should “still” be in the AHL. But they’re on the big team with the big people.

 

Of course that’s going to have an effect on the farm.

 

Would you rather have Virtanen, McCaan, Juolevi, Hughes, Boeser, Podkolzi, Höglander and Pettersson on the farm team?

 

Well that's the thing though a winning organization needs to have a solid developmental system for players that are not NHL ready yet. The guys you mean (for the most part) were NHL ready so they didn't need to go through the AHL system. 

 

But what about players that are not yet NHL ready and need a good AHL system for their development? Especially guys who are later round picks or undrafted players.

 

I hate to use this example again but in Tampa Gourde, Paquette, Killorn, and some others went through their AHL system to develop before becoming good and effective players for their NHL team. 

 

Which is the reason why the have depth and Vancouver does not 

[oldnews]

On 6/2/2021 at 9:00 AM, GarthButcher5 said:

I really have no idea why Edmonton and Toronto bowed out early in the playoffs but I do acknowledge that that both teams made the playoffs and had very good season otherwise.

 

I think the problem here is more with the NHL and how it allows a different rule book in the playoffs. Stars like McDavid, Tavaras and Matthews (Or if you like, Sedin/Sedin) are allowed to be bullied, intimated hooked, speared and abused and this is acceptable playoff hockey. This is not allowed in the regular season so why is it ok in the playoffs?

 

I hope the Leafs and Coilers tell themselves that story - and therefore miss the actual underlying causes of their losses.

 

And I'm not sure if you watched either of those series - but nothing resembling the 'bullying' of those 'stars' took place.  Quite the opposite - there was a definite "dont' touch Matthews" tone set early in that series - extremely soft calls made to protect him - while he made an asshat of himself.

 

Take a look at the call that was made in game 2 when the Leafs lead 2-0 - and ask yourself if this storyline actually stands up in this Leafs series.

Sorry - not even close - it's about as peripheral excuse as there is.   Neither Matthews - nor Marner - were subject to any kind of sustained physical abuse, after the whistles extra curriculars - absolutely no comparison to what Boston did against the Sedins.

 

Mattews and Marner simply could not produce when the between the whistles tempo was amped up and their time and space was taken away - and additionally, the Leafs in general were unable to establish themselves in the hard areas or create enough high danger chances.  Playoff 'toughness' is about more than abuse - the Habs weren't particularly abusive - what they were were harder on the puck, harder on the forecheck, and just harder in general, all over the ice.

[butters]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:59 AM, McBackup said:

I don't know what your definition of "rebuild" is then. If you're "resetting" then you're starting anew, you're rebuilding. They broke down their old roster and started building again around a new core. Same as the Canucks. The fact that they only made the playoffs the once with the old core doesn't make it any less of a separate rebuild, otherwise you could argue the Canucks and Leafs have both been rebuilding since 1970 and 1967 respectfully. 

I think its tricksy to arbitrarily ignore years of a failed rebuild so that they can rip on another team's rebuilding process (to draw attention away from their own futility.\)

[lmm]

On 6/5/2021 at 4:22 PM, Me_ said:

I don’t see how a team is “built wrong” that is a very subjective statement from the OP.

 

Teams are individual capitalist ventures that are designed to attract money and success.

 

Some owners are satisfied with revenue only, while others are looking for the big prize; the Stanley Cup.

 

Currently, the Canucks are building an empire based on the current trend of building from within; drafting and development.

 

If that trend were to suddenly change, which it did when the cap was introduced, then the Canucks’ course of building through the draft and developing their own players could take a serious turn for the worse.

 

Trans are not built wrong. They are huit according to the desires of their owners, and hopefully, to the demands of their fans.

any team that is not built with the intention of winning a cup (at some point) is playing their fanbase for fools

in effect they are lying to their fans

that would be an ownership failure

 

however, there are plenty of teams (managers) that have bad or ineffective ideas with regard to how the team should be constructed

for starters anyone who thinks DOPs is their friend and fair is already 1/2 sunk

 

in the 50ish years I have been watching hockey some things have changed and some have not

50 years ago a player would be benched for playing the puck in front of his own net

brawls happened

checks to the head were ignored

rookies fought their own battles as a right of passage

that has all changed

 

the structure of a cup winner has not

goaltending

Big mobile defense

system

forwards

 

look back over 50 years, or more if you like

goal Cheevers/Dryden/Perant/Smith/Fuhr.Roy, Brodeur..Thomas/Quick,Holtby,Vaselevski

D Orr,Savard,RobinsonPotvin,Coffey/Smith/Muni, Stevens Coffey (again)/Lidstrom/Fedisov/KanstantinovChara, Doughty, Kieth/Seabrooke,Hedman

System/coach: dead puck did not require impressive forwards, only steady

forwards : I left forwards til the end because McDavid,Mathews... do not win cups But there are forwards that repeat, like Lemieux (Claude) and J WIlliams Yzerman, Trottier. They are not neccesarily the guys winning the Art Ross Trophy, (but some do )

 

Then I look at the Canucks/Leaf/Oilers and I see bits and pieces that would be useful for a cup team, but none of the 3 can check all four boxes

hence

they are built wrong

I am not sure if you combined these 3 teams you could make a Cup winner

they would have 

2 good goalie 

defense would still be lacking

I'd use Tippett for head coach

and they would have scorers on the 5-6th lines but still no playoff grinders

Edited June 6, 2021 by lmm

[N4ZZY]

15 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Watching the Avs/Vegas series and it comes home how far the Canucks have to go still. 

&^@# Vegas. They were gifted a team, just like Seattle's going to be gifted a team. 

 

I like Colorado, and am rooting for them. Was hoping they won tonight...

 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

&^@# Vegas. They were gifted a team, just like Seattle's going to be gifted a team. 

 

I like Colorado, and am rooting for them. Was hoping they won tonight...

 

 

But you cant deny how well Vegas plays. I hate them too but more because everyone from their coach down to Reeves is an arrogant, entitled punk.

 

But they are a well built team.

[EddieVedder]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:48 AM, Boudrias said:

Watching the Avs/Vegas series and it comes home how far the Canucks have to go still. 

So true.  

 

[N4ZZY]

22 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

But you cant deny how well Vegas plays. I hate them too but more because everyone from their coach down to Reeves is an arrogant, entitled punk.

 

But they are a well built team.

They are well built I have to admit. I still don't like them. 

 

[McBackup]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:50 PM, butters said:

I think its tricksy to arbitrarily ignore years of a failed rebuild so that they can rip on another team's rebuilding process (to draw attention away from their own futility.\)

I think you're doing the exact same thing.

Edited June 8, 2021 by McBackup

[butters]

3 hours ago, McBackup said:

I think you're doing the exact same thing.

usually a 'whatabout' has to make contextual sense.

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

I think what happened this year with the demise of Edmonton and Toronto, it’ll be a solid rallying point for the contract negotiations between Petey and Huggy and the team, make it a point that we’re trying to build a cup winner not a two line team and work out a non inflated contract for the two. 5-6 million for 4-5 years. 

[IBatch]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:24 AM, Dr. Crossbar said:

If there's any "concern" I have in comparing us with the Avs, it's the fact that we haven't drafted #1 and #2 plus the fact that we've struggled to make good on our #5 (Juolevi) and #6 (Virtanen). Huge holes for us as compared to the Avs, which I'm not sure if we can fill at this stage.  

AVs had a big hole on 2C which they filled by trading Barrie for Kadri, and Sakic traded Duchene who should have ended up as a first for them, but instead 4th overall (Bryam) - very lucky in that regard.   In other words they started to pawn off their previous core or eldest core members.    In two years (maybe one) we will be facing a similar situation. Should we trade two of Miller/BB/Horvat to build around EP/QHs (they rebuilt around McKinnon and Rantanen)?   If we do it's not a failure if those end up the results.    It's just the way the league is now.   Rebuilds take time.   NYR rebuilt with Panarin and Zinbanejad....taking the short cut, same way TO did with Tavares.    I'm fine waiting another year, but do think a trade is needed as in a big name core player trade to help fill some holes and build for later.