Jim wants aggressive? OK lets talk Makar offer sheet.

[JM_]

Just about the most aggressive thing a GM could do is an offer sheet. So who's the biggest offer sheet prize this year? Makar, by a mile.

 

It likely takes something massive like 11 x 7 but if you knew Makar would sign it, would you do it?

 

What are the pro's and con's if Jim tries a move like this?

 

And just to pre-empt one thing, all GMs would throw each other under a bus so goodwill amongst GMs isn't a good argument. 

 

[CanucksJay]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Just about the most aggressive thing a GM could do is an offer sheet. So who's the biggest offer sheet prize this year? Makar, by a mile.

 

It likely takes something massive like 11 x 7 but if you knew Makar would sign it, would you do it?

 

What are the pro's and con's if Jim tries a move like this?

 

And just to pre-empt one thing, all GMs would throw each other under a bus so goodwill amongst GMs isn't a good argument. 

 

what is the compensation for an 11m offer?

Is it 4 firsts?

[Chickenspear]

I think I'd rather keep the 4 1st rounders it would cost if we successfully offer sheeted him at that price, then we could either use them in the draft, or trade for upgrades in multiple spots on the roster (Top 6/9F, Top 2/4D). Right now, we don't have the 3rd rounder to offer sheet anything between $4.363m-$10.907m either, so I don't see it happening.

 

+, you know, goodwill between Gms, yadda yadda...

Edited June 2, 2021 by Chickenspear

[EternalCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Just about the most aggressive thing a GM could do is an offer sheet. So who's the biggest offer sheet prize this year? Makar, by a mile.

 

It likely takes something massive like 11 x 7 but if you knew Makar would sign it, would you do it?

 

What are the pro's and con's if Jim tries a move like this?

 

And just to pre-empt one thing, all GMs would throw each other under a bus so goodwill amongst GMs isn't a good argument. 

 

Makar is awesome, but 4 1sts is a supreme gamble (even on a player of Makar's caliber) at this stage of the Canucks' cycle, not to mention an $11M cap hit would probably hamstring the team.  Does the addition of Makar put the Canucks over the top?  It probably does get them closer, but it would probably also destroy their ability to fill out the rest of the roster with good depth.

[Oregon.Duck]

Not going to lie, if we're trading away 4 first round draft picks, I'm thinking we get better than Makar versus an offersheet. 

 

[GB5]

Aggressiveness and recklessness are two very different things. 

 

But to answer the question, pros are that the Canucks get a RHD for term, Makar may very well be a top 5 d-man in the league. 

Cons - a lot of money in one player, still could be worth it, sacrificing the future through loss of picks, inability to sign other young Canucks, retaliatorily moves (remember when the Canucks offer sheeted Backes years ago?)

 

I tend to look at this in more of the reckless category. This is no doubt a great young player but do we get him at all cost? I say no because the Canucks are looking to build a deep team and this would carry a very large opportunity cost that could not be reclaimed.

 

[JM_]

13 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

what is the compensation for an 11m offer?

Is it 4 firsts?

yup, its a chips all-in kind of move 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

Makar is awesome, but 4 1sts is a supreme gamble (even on a player of Makar's caliber) at this stage of the Canucks' cycle, not to mention an $11M cap hit would probably hamstring the team.  Does the addition of Makar put the Canucks over the top?  It probably does get them closer, but it would probably also destroy their ability to fill out the rest of the roster with good depth.

we could handle it cap-wise, with LTIR and dumping Schmidt.

 

We'd also likely need to move Boeser down the road, but then that also gets us one of the 1sts back. 

 

 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

Aggressiveness and recklessness are two very different things. 

 

But to answer the question, pros are that the Canucks get a RHD for term, Makar may very well be a top 5 d-man in the league. 

Cons - a lot of money in one player, still could be worth it, sacrificing the future through loss of picks, inability to sign other young Canucks, retaliatorily moves (remember when the Canucks offer sheeted Backes years ago?)

 

I tend to look at this in more of the reckless category. This is no doubt a great young player but do we get him at all cost? I say no because the Canucks are looking to build a deep team and this would carry a very large opportunity cost that could not be reclaimed.

 

 

I like looking at end-points in discussions, so I was just thinking, what's the most aggressive thing Jim could try to do? 

 

If Jim thinks Makar is in that "generational" d category and thinks he can recover a 1st down the road (e.g., moving Boeser if Podkolin lights things up) I just wonder if he'd try something like this. 

 

It guts 3/4 of the next drafts for us in the 1st round in all likelihood. But what if those picks are in the 20's?

 

[Chickenspear]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

I like looking at end-points in discussions, so I was just thinking, what's the most aggressive thing Jim could try to do? 

 

If Jim thinks Makar is in that "generational" d category and thinks he can recover a 1st down the road (e.g., moving Boeser if Podkolin lights things up) I just wonder if he'd try something like this. 

 

It guts 3/4 of the next drafts for us in the 1st round in all likelihood. But what if those picks are in the 20's?

 

They could still be moved at the trade deadline for a key roster player if we're on the cusp of cup contender

[CanucksJay]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup, its a chips all-in kind of move 

With benning's drafting prowess, 4 firsts could end up with another set of Boeser, Horvat, Podz and Hog /Demko

 

I don't see us drafting 1-5 in the next few years so left out Petterson

 

I would only RFA an amount that would screw the Avs but forces them to match. 

 

Problem is, other teams will do that to our guys soon as we have a lot of youth coming up

[JM_]

Just now, Chickenspear said:

They could still be moved at the trade deadline for a key roster player if we're on the cusp of cup contender

good point, we wouldn't have the option of a good rental during a big piece of the next contention window. 

 

There's been some discussion of a move like our 2022 1st, Miller and Rathbone for Jones, e.g. Is a Makar offer sheet really that far off a move like that? Yes its probably 2-3 mil more per year than Jones but I bet Makar is a much better point producer. 

[BCNate]

You can't do that before you sign EP and Hughes, otherwise you are likely going to have to go long term over pay for them as well, Similar to what happened in TO.  I also think it would be a bad look to EP and QH if we bridge them, and roll up the Brinks truck for Makar.

[Johnny Torts]

Jimmy, with what you have seen in a few games of Rathbone, and what his ceiling could be now, do we need to spend the 11?

 

I also think its way to early to call Quinn Hughes a career defensive liability. It wasn't just the kid's fault, its a team game I know you didn't say it, but others are.

 

I think we are in a great position right now and will have more cap than people think, with the LTIR, potential buyouts, player movement, etc.

 

Makar would be great though huh? &^@#ing kid is a beast. 

[Fanuck]

32 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

And just to pre-empt one thing, all GMs would throw each other under a bus so goodwill amongst GMs isn't a good argument. 

 

I disagree, the GM's still operate very much under the 'old boys club' rules.  If, as you say, they're so willing to throw each other under the bus then why aren't offer sheets happening regularly?  

 

At this point in time, knowing somewhat how JB works after watching him for 7 years - the most aggressive thing I could envision him doing would be to trade his 1st rounder this year for a young and upcoming asset who would be 2-3 years ahead of whomever we could target in the draft.  The problem with that is any asset like that would likely be coming off of their ELC and that wouldn't be good for our cap. 

[JM_]

Just now, CanucksJay said:

With benning's drafting prowess, 4 firsts could end up with another set of Boeser, Horvat, Podz and Hog /Demko

 

I don't see us drafting 1-5 in the next few years so left out Petterson

 

I would only RFA an amount that would screw the Avs but forces them to match. 

 

Problem is, other teams will do that to our guys soon as we have a lot of youth coming up

other teams are going to offer sheet our guys if they can no matter what we do. Just look at Bergevin, e.g. I doubt he cares what Carolina's plans are.

 

We're likely never going to draft a player like Makar, either tho. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Torts said:

Jimmy, with what you have seen in a few games of Rathbone, and what his ceiling could be now, do we need to spend the 11?

 

I also think its way to early to call Quinn Hughes a career defensive liability. It wasn't just the kid's fault, its a team game I know you didn't say it, but others are.

 

I think we are in a great position right now and will have more cap than people think, with the LTIR, potential buyouts, player movement, etc.

 

Makar would be great though huh? &^@#ing kid is a beast. 

Rathobone looks to be a stud for sure. Hughes isn't a liability, thats just silly. I don't know where that comes from or why people say that. 

 

Dunno, just spitballing an extreme idea on draft day. 

[Elias Pettersson]

I think a team by the name of the Leaves already tried to build a Cup contender handing out $11 million contracts to anyone who asked for it.  It didn't work out too well for them.  I'm thinking it won't work out too well for us either...

[Kootenay Gold]

42 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Just about the most aggressive thing a GM could do is an offer sheet. So who's the biggest offer sheet prize this year? Makar, by a mile.

 

It likely takes something massive like 11 x 7 but if you knew Makar would sign it, would you do it?

 

What are the pro's and con's if Jim tries a move like this?

 

And just to pre-empt one thing, all GMs would throw each other under a bus so goodwill amongst GMs isn't a good argument. 

 

Probably the worst idea out there. Last thing the Canucks would want to do is massively overpay for one player and risk a counter offer sheet on Pettersson. No room to fit him in under the cap so basically the team would have to be gutted to make room... A very very bad idea IMO.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kootenay Gold
clarity

[Chickenspear]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

good point, we wouldn't have the option of a good rental during a big piece of the next contention window. 

 

There's been some discussion of a move like our 2022 1st, Miller and Rathbone for Jones, e.g. Is a Makar offer sheet really that far off a move like that? Yes its probably 2-3 mil more per year than Jones but I bet Makar is a much better point producer. 

I just think there's better ways to spend our assets and manage the cap more efficiently. An $11m x 7 contract is quite the commitment, and makes me cringe at what Huggy, Petey, and Boeser's long term deals will look like with the flat cap. Don't want to become Toronto 2.0 here.