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My final 2021-22 line-up wish list. (I tried to take in account what the fan base wants and management)

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Posted (edited)

So well building my wish list for the 2021-22 line-up. I did something that probably most fans wouldn't I tired to make everyone happy. Fans that want to win now management included. Fans who want to keep re-building and fans that want to keep collecting assets. Then finally where there was some debate as to who to go with I chose the player that I wanted but still filled the role IMO fills the role best (more to come on this player).

 

First, I looked at the Cap that the Canucks can have available to them without having to pull off some ridiculous trade i.e. trading Eriksson for a first just to clear his 6 mill. This runs counter productive to those who what to keep assets and keep rebuilding. I have already written a topic on Cap availability so I will quickly do a summary here. Holtby and Virtanen are the best buyout candidates. Eriksson and Roussel it is just best to bury their contracts in the AHL. Ferland is LTIR. This leaves the team with roughly 26-27 million.

 

Second, I looked at the players that need to be re-signed I didn't worry about those that will most likely end up in the AHL and only put my attention to those that have a high probability to make the team or are already on the team. There were 3; Hughes Pettersson and Juolevi.

 

Juolevi IMO hasn't proven much so will probably be signed for less than a mill I allocated .950 mill for 2 years I call this a pretty standard contract for a guy in his position.

 

Hughes and Pettersson, will most likely end up in the same range I could see Pettersson getting a little more. IMHO this team can not afford to go long term deals with them so the more obvious choice is a bridge deal 2-3 years. I allocated 6.5 mill to each of them but I could see Hughes at 6.25 mill and Pettersson at 6.75 mill. These would make them the highest payed players on the team and set them up to earn big dollar 8 year contracts after the bridge has expired due to the fact that this would most likely be the ending point of the flat cap era.

 

Third, I looked at the positions that where needed to be filled and how one might be able to fill them that allowed the team to compete going forward and still gain assets and rebuild.

The Positions that had to be filled is 3rd line center, top 4 defense preferable a player who could play with and make Hughes better and can bring a defensive presence to the pairing. IMHO these 2 positions where the most important with 3rd line winger Defensive depth and back-up goalie taking a backseat but still needing to be filled.

 

First was the Defenseman, I took consideration of everyone's picks for this position and one player stood out the most. Erik Cernak 24 years old on on a cap hit 2.95 mill. So I asked myself what would pry him from TBL. So I looked at the Canucks assets and I could only find one that made sense. So you guys will ask me why it makes sense so let me explain. The asset I am talking about is the Canucks 9th over all pick. I asked myself do the Canucks need another top 10 pick or do they need an asset plus a draft pick. At 24 years old Cernak is by far more developed than any player the Canucks can pick at 9th. A 9th pick this season will most likely take 2 years before they even play for the Canucks and 3-5 years before they could meaningfully contribute to the team something Cernak can do this season and seasons to come. Cernak is also exactly what Hughes needs he is another up and coming Tanev if not already with a little more offensive upside and has post 1st unit PK mins with TBL. 

 

So this is the trade I propose. TBL does not have a 1st this year therefor I propose, Cernak and their 1st rounder for 2022 for the Canucks 9th overall this season (I would also be willing to throw in the Canucks 3rd or 4th rounder next season). Why does TBL do this. I come up with a couple of reasons. First ,TBL needs to clear cap space this helps them do it. This trade reminds me of another trade TBL made with the Canucks the Miller trade each side got fair value (I do believe this is a fair value hockey trade). Third, TBL Defense will not take that much of a hit with this trade. McDonagh plays the most PK mins on TBL and is currently there best defensive defenseman and still contributes at a decent offensive pace for them even at 31 years old. Forth, why would they want a 9th overall now. My reasoning behind this is they want the 9th for the same reason the Canucks don't really need the 9th overall pick. That player will take time to develop. As players get older on TBL they will need to replace them with cheap ELC contracts that have a better chance of becoming players who can contribute. TBL has traded their 1st rounder this year to make this run, They traded their first rounders (they had 2) last year to make the push that year. They will be on the verge of being where Vancouver was 7 years ago if they don't start having first round picks (empty cupboards). Or they could flip the pick this year with a guy like Johnson to help clear some more cap space.

 

For the Canucks it makes tons of sense get a young D partner for Hughes and a second first round pick next season (personally I am happy they don't have a pick this season as it could be a very low even  #32 first rounder. It is highly unlikely they could 3 peat). This trade allows them to continue the rebuild and gain a valuable asset on a cheap contract for the next 3 years and to retain him for more than 10 years.

 

Second was the 3rd line center position. I looked at a couple of your guys picks for this position mainly Phillip Danault, whom would fill this role very nicely. However, I killed this Idea in my mind for one major reason the cost could be to high. It was already reported that he said no to a 5 mill contract this could be rumor but if not then more then 5 mill is to much for this position. IMHO this position can be allocated somewhere between 4-5 mill due to the fact it is a center and this player could easily have to fill in a top 2 role with injuries which  I do wonder if Danault could do for this team. Danualt in my mind could be looking to get 2nd line Center mins and money.

In this position I decided to go with my guy Mikael Granlund. That's right you have heard it from me before. He can PP the second Unit for the Canucks. Nash also had him on their #1 PK unit. IMO he would be better suited on the second unit PK for the Canucks and Beagle on the first unit. I favor him over others because the Canucks can pay him for the guy he is now instead of the guy he was before and he has the most offensive potential. I allocated, 4.75 mill for 5 years for him. I believe that most teams will offer him 4 so we can get him at 5. Last year he was a last min signing by Nash it was reported that he was looking for term and Nash didn't want to give it to him. Now a year older at 29 5 years is still reasonable (33 at end of 5 year contract) the Canucks might get bit on the last year. However, I would argue Granlund is very consistent year over year and has a complete game. I also believe he could top his career year (26 goals 43 assists for 69pt) in the right circumstances. 4.75 mill for a player that consistently can get .5pts a game who can play both 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK well centering your 3rd line seems like a no brainer to me even if it costs the Canucks an extra year on term. Finally there is nobody in the Canucks organization to fill this role any time soon and it needs to be filled with someone who can contribute today if the Canucks want to contend even for a playoff spot next season. As Granlund ages the goal would be for him to either move to wing or 4th line center in his last year and have a ELC contract replace him at center. With 2 1st round draft picks next season with a Cernak trade they need to draft someone who can fill this role in 3-5 years.

 

Third Defensive Depth, I allocated 1.25 mill to this position. What I looked for was someone whom could bring a veteran presence to the left side but wouldn't have a problem being rotated in and out of the line up an getting maybe 50 games or so. The player I chose was John Merrill 1.25 mill for 2 years. I thought giving him 2 years would seal the deal for the Canucks as some teams I believe would offer him a 1 year deal. He is what he is a depth dman nothing special but he wont hurt the team. 

 

Forth, 3rd line right winger, after allocating money to all the other positions there isn't that much left for this position but there was a player who stood out for me that the Canucks could sign on the cheap. Brandon Sutter. I allocated 1.75 mill over 2 years to him. First why 2 years, simple when Beagle leaves next season I want him to center The Canucks 4th line and for Sutter and Granlund to split PK center time in that 2nd year. Therefore, 2 years gives who ever is going to fil that 4th line center and 3rd line winger position (Lind, Lockwood or other) and PK center position time to develop that player could even play that second year full time on wing or at center with Sutter on his line similar to Miller and Pettersson.

 

Fifth, The Back-up goalie, This is a hard one for me. My pick would be Dipietro but I have listen to the fans and give you the choice, I have allocated 1.20 mill to this position. One pick I might suggest is a Vet like Curtis McElhinney. But to me it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't cost more than 1.20 mill.

 

My Finally 2021-22 wish list Line-up

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearsson Horvat Pods

Hoglander Granlund Sutter

Motte Beagle Highmore

Gadjovich (13th forward brings some toughness if needed)

 

Hughes Cernak

Rathbone Schmidt

Juolevi Myers

Merrill

 

Demko

McElhinney (or pick your guy no more than 1.20mill though)

 

PP 1 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Hughes Horvat

 

PP2 

Hoglander Grandlund Pods

Rathbone (Myers, Schmidt, Pearsson  I like this many options)

 

PK1 

Beagle Motte

Juolevi (Merrill) Cenrak

 

PK2 

Granlund Sutter 

Rathbone Schmidt

 

Cap Hit $81,458,212, Cap space remaining $14,788

 

The Complaint that I hear coming is that is to tight. Well those who like this cap stuff will tell you; to utilize Ferlands LTIR effectively a team has to get as close to the cap ceiling as possible or a team can lose cap space. So this is what I have done.

 

Conclusion

 

The most important thing I looked at was the depth particularly at the center position and the role it plays on a team. I feel that The lose of Pettersson really hurt what the Canucks could do with their forward group. So now if Pettersson or Horvat where to get injured we have Granlund to step in to a top 2 center position and Sutter to take his place on the third line. The other possibility is that Miller takes the center role and Hoglander moves from 3rd line to the 1st line winger position.

 

The Second thing that was Important and I would say almost equally important was defense. Again the depth but more importantly the roles these players had to play. Cernak as the Defensive type for Hughes and Merrill as a veteran presence on the left side.

 

If you look at my special teams line-up you will notice, by filling certain holes in the forward and defensive groups with specific players it greatly benefited the special teams. Cernak on PK 1 defense and Granlund on the PP2 center position greatly improves at least on paper what they had last year.

 

So I do realize this is my wish list and the team could look nothing like this next season. I just hope Benning and Co. uses some of this type of thinking when they are filling these positions; the roles each player plays and how they can help their team in the secondary roles matters just as importantly as they help them in their primary roles.   

 

 

 

Edited by Arrow 1983
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TBL will not trade Cernak + their 2022 1st, in exchange for a 2021 9th overall pick.

 

TBL would not even trade Cernak straight up for the 2021 9th overall pick.

 

Why? Because he is their only top pairing RHD, he is big strong and logs big minutes and costs less than $3m. He is not a candidate for clearing cap as he plays a critical role in TBL and is very cheap for the role that he plays.

 

TBL is in win-now mode, if they trade away Cernak, guess what they will be looking for? An exact replacement of Cernak.

 

First round picks don't mean much to them, except to use in trades to clear cap or to stay competitive now.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

TBL will not trade Cernak + their 2022 1st, in exchange for a 2021 9th overall pick.

 

TBL would not even trade Cernak straight up for the 2021 9th overall pick.

 

Why? Because he is their only top pairing RHD, he is big strong and logs big minutes and costs less than $3m. He is not a candidate for clearing cap as he plays a critical role in TBL and is very cheap for the role that he plays.

 

TBL is in win-now mode, if they trade away Cernak, guess what they will be looking for? An exact replacement of Cernak.

 

First round picks don't mean much to them, except to use in trades to clear cap or to stay competitive now.

Yes this is the counter point of view Your not right or wrong and neither am I because we don't know how the TBL GM thinks.

 

Where you are wrong is your statement, First round picks don't mean much to them, except to use in trades to clear cap or to stay competitive now. You are wrong because you claim it as a truth you write everything you wrote as the truth which it is not, we don't know what TBL GM thinks.

 

Haven't you ever heard, that you can only be wrong when you claim something as truth when you don't actually know it to be true. Even if you are right your still wrong because you don't know. 

 

It is also why I called it my wish list 2021-22 line up a lot of things would have to fall in place 

 

You should really read or re-read my conclusion to fully understand where I was going

 

 

Edited by Arrow 1983
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1 hour ago, BigTramFan said:

TBL might not want to trade Cernak + their 2022 1st, in exchange for a 2021 9th overall pick.

 

TBL might not even trade Cernak straight up for the 2021 9th overall pick.

 

Why? Because he is their only top pairing RHD, he is big strong and logs big minutes and costs less than $3m. He may not be viewed as a candidate for clearing cap as he plays a critical role in TBL and is very cheap for the role that he plays.

 

TBL is in win-now mode, if they trade away Cernak, guess what they may be lookin got replace him? but they could look for someone cheaper in their system because they have depth at the defensive position

 

First round picks might not have much value to them, except maybe to use in trades to clear cap or to stay competitive now.

fixed it for you. I had to fix a lot

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4 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

TBL will not trade Cernak + their 2022 1st, in exchange for a 2021 9th overall pick.

 

TBL would not even trade Cernak straight up for the 2021 9th overall pick.

 

Why? Because he is their only top pairing RHD, he is big strong and logs big minutes and costs less than $3m. He is not a candidate for clearing cap as he plays a critical role in TBL and is very cheap for the role that he plays.

 

TBL is in win-now mode, if they trade away Cernak, guess what they will be looking for? An exact replacement of Cernak.

 

First round picks don't mean much to them, except to use in trades to clear cap or to stay competitive now.

TB are in cap hell for next season.  They are already over 5m in cap with only 19 players signed.  The only trades they can make (in order to unload some salary) is for a pic or a prospect.  They don't have their 1st or 2nd round picks for this year and will likely not have them for next year, as they will probably have to trade their 1st to unload a contract to Seattle. Desperate times take desperate measures.

 

Cernak is not their top pairing RD; that would be Sergachev.  They also have Foote coming along.  Knowing TB, they probably have a decent prospect in their ranks as well.

 

They have to unload cap, while also trying to avoid losing a top player in the ED.  I think they would gladly take the 9th overall (and possibly a prospect) for Cernak and Johnson - that's $8m in cap.  Of course, I would much rather claim Cerilli, but I doubt TB would do that.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

So well building my wish list for the 2021-22 line-up. I did something that probably most fans wouldn't I tired to make everyone happy. Fans that want to win now management included. Fans who want to keep re-building and fans that want to keep collecting assets. Then finally where there was some debate as to who to go with I chose the player that I wanted but still filled the role IMO fills the role best (more to come on this player).

 

First, I looked at the Cap that the Canucks can have available to them without having to pull off some ridiculous trade i.e. trading Eriksson for a first just to clear his 6 mill. This runs counter productive to those who what to keep assets and keep rebuilding. I have already written a topic on Cap availability so I will quickly do a summary here. Holtby and Virtanen are the best buyout candidates. Eriksson and Roussel it is just best to bury their contracts in the AHL. Ferland is LTIR. This leaves the team with roughly 26-27 million.

 

Second, I looked at the players that need to be re-signed I didn't worry about those that will most likely end up in the AHL and only put my attention to those that have a high probability to make the team or are already on the team. There were 3; Hughes Pettersson and Juolevi.

 

Juolevi IMO hasn't proven much so will probably be signed for less than a mill I allocated .950 mill for 2 years I call this a pretty standard contract for a guy in his position.

 

Hughes and Pettersson, will most likely end up in the same range I could see Pettersson getting a little more. IMHO this team can not afford to go long term deals with them so the more obvious choice is a bridge deal 2-3 years. I allocated 6.5 mill to each of them but I could see Hughes at 6.25 mill and Pettersson at 6.75 mill. These would make them the highest payed players on the team and set them up to earn big dollar 8 year contracts after the bridge has expired due to the fact that this would most likely be the ending point of the flat cap era.

 

Third, I looked at the positions that where needed to be filled and how one might be able to fill them that allowed the team to compete going forward and still gain assets and rebuild.

The Positions that had to be filled is 3rd line center, top 4 defense preferable a player who could play with and make Hughes better and can bring a defensive presence to the pairing. IMHO these 2 positions where the most important with 3rd line winger Defensive depth and back-up goalie taking a backseat but still needing to be filled.

 

First was the Defenseman, I took consideration of everyone's picks for this position and one player stood out the most. Erik Cernak 24 years old on on a cap hit 2.95 mill. So I asked myself what would pry him from TBL. So I looked at the Canucks assets and I could only find one that made sense. So you guys will ask me why it makes sense so let me explain. The asset I am talking about is the Canucks 9th over all pick. I asked myself do the Canucks need another top 10 pick or do they need an asset plus a draft pick. At 24 years old Cernak is by far more developed than any player the Canucks can pick at 9th. A 9th pick this season will most likely take 2 years before they even play for the Canucks and 3-5 years before they could meaningfully contribute to the team something Cernak can do this season and seasons to come. Cernak is also exactly what Hughes needs he is another up and coming Tanev if not already with a little more offensive upside and has post 1st unit PK mins with TBL. 

 

So this is the trade I propose. TBL does not have a 1st this year therefor I propose, Cernak and their 1st rounder for 2022 for the Canucks 9th overall this season (I would also be willing to throw in the Canucks 3rd or 4th rounder next season). Why does TBL do this. I come up with a couple of reasons. First ,TBL needs to clear cap space this helps them do it. This trade reminds me of another trade TBL made with the Canucks the Miller trade each side got fair value (I do believe this is a fair value hockey trade). Third, TBL Defense will not take that much of a hit with this trade. McDonagh plays the most PK mins on TBL and is currently there best defensive defenseman and still contributes at a decent offensive pace for them even at 31 years old. Forth, why would they want a 9th overall now. My reasoning behind this is they want the 9th for the same reason the Canucks don't really need the 9th overall pick. That player will take time to develop. As players get older on TBL they will need to replace them with cheap ELC contracts that have a better chance of becoming players who can contribute. TBL has traded their 1st rounder this year to make this run, They traded their first rounders (they had 2) last year to make the push that year. They will be on the verge of being where Vancouver was 7 years ago if they don't start having first round picks (empty cupboards). Or they could flip the pick this year with a guy like Johnson to help clear some more cap space.

 

For the Canucks it makes tons of sense get a young D partner for Hughes and a second first round pick next season (personally I am happy they don't have a pick this season as it could be a very low even  #32 first rounder. It is highly unlikely they could 3 peat). This trade allows them to continue the rebuild and gain a valuable asset on a cheap contract for the next 3 years and to retain him for more than 10 years.

 

Second was the 3rd line center position. I looked at a couple of your guys picks for this position mainly Phillip Danault, whom would fill this role very nicely. However, I killed this Idea in my mind for one major reason the cost could be to high. It was already reported that he said no to a 5 mill contract this could be rumor but if not then more then 5 mill is to much for this position. IMHO this position can be allocated somewhere between 4-5 mill due to the fact it is a center and this player could easily have to fill in a top 2 role with injuries which  I do wonder if Danault could do for this team. Danualt in my mind could be looking to get 2nd line Center mins and money.

In this position I decided to go with my guy Mikael Granlund. That's right you have heard it from me before. He can PP the second Unit for the Canucks. Nash also had him on their #1 PK unit. IMO he would be better suited on the second unit PK for the Canucks and Beagle on the first unit. I favor him over others because the Canucks can pay him for the guy he is now instead of the guy he was before and he has the most offensive potential. I allocated, 4.75 mill for 5 years for him. I believe that most teams will offer him 4 so we can get him at 5. Last year he was a last min signing by Nash it was reported that he was looking for term and Nash didn't want to give it to him. Now a year older at 29 5 years is still reasonable (33 at end of 5 year contract) the Canucks might get bit on the last year. However, I would argue Granlund is very consistent year over year and has a complete game. I also believe he could top his career year (26 goals 43 assists for 69pt) in the right circumstances. 4.75 mill for a player that consistently can get .5pts a game who can play both 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK well centering your 3rd line seems like a no brainer to me even if it costs the Canucks an extra year on term. Finally there is nobody in the Canucks organization to fill this role any time soon and it needs to be filled with someone who can contribute today if the Canucks want to contend even for a playoff spot next season. As Granlund ages the goal would be for him to either move to wing or 4th line center in his last year and have a ELC contract replace him at center. With 2 1st round draft picks next season with a Cernak trade they need to draft someone who can fill this role in 3-5 years.

 

Third Defensive Depth, I allocated 1.25 mill to this position. What I looked for was someone whom could bring a veteran presence to the left side but wouldn't have a problem being rotated in and out of the line up an getting maybe 50 games or so. The player I chose was John Merrill 1.25 mill for 2 years. I thought giving him 2 years would seal the deal for the Canucks as some teams I believe would offer him a 1 year deal. He is what he is a depth dman nothing special but he wont hurt the team. 

 

Forth, 3rd line right winger, after allocating money to all the other positions there isn't that much left for this position but there was a player who stood out for me that the Canucks could sign on the cheap. Brandon Sutter. I allocated 1.75 mill over 2 years to him. First why 2 years, simple when Beagle leaves next season I want him to center The Canucks 4th line and for Sutter and Granlund to split PK center time in that 2nd year. Therefore, 2 years gives who ever is going to fil that 4th line center and 3rd line winger position (Lind, Lockwood or other) and PK center position time to develop that player could even play that second year full time on wing or at center with Sutter on his line similar to Miller and Pettersson.

 

Fifth, The Back-up goalie, This is a hard one for me. My pick would be Dipietro but I have listen to the fans and give you the choice, I have allocated 1.20 mill to this position. One pick I might suggest is a Vet like Curtis McElhinney. But to me it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't cost more than 1.20 mill.

 

My Finally 2021-22 wish list Line-up

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearsson Horvat Pods

Hoglander Granlund Sutter

Motte Beagle Highmore

Gadjovich (13th forward brings some toughness if needed)

 

Hughes Cernak

Rathbone Schmidt

Juolevi Myers

Merrill

 

Demko

McElhinney (or pick your guy no more than 1.20mill though)

 

PP 1 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Hughes Horvat

 

PP2 

Hoglander Grandlund Pods

Rathbone (Myers, Schmidt, Pearsson  I like this many options)

 

PK1 

Beagle Motte

Juolevi (Merrill) Cenrak

 

PK2 

Granlund Sutter 

Rathbone Schmidt

 

Cap Hit $81,458,212, Cap space remaining $14,788

 

The Complaint that I hear coming is that is to tight. Well those who like this cap stuff will tell you; to utilize Ferlands LTIR effectively a team has to get as close to the cap ceiling as possible or a team can lose cap space. So this is what I have done.

 

Conclusion

 

The most important thing I looked at was the depth particularly at the center position and the role it plays on a team. I feel that The lose of Pettersson really hurt what the Canucks could do with their forward group. So now if Pettersson or Horvat where to get injured we have Granlund to step in to a top 2 center position and Sutter to take his place on the third line. The other possibility is that Miller takes the center role and Hoglander moves from 3rd line to the 1st line winger position.

 

The Second thing that was Important and I would say almost equally important was defense. Again the depth but more importantly the roles these players had to play. Cernak as the Defensive type for Hughes and Merrill as a veteran presence on the left side.

 

If you look at my special teams line-up you will notice, by filling certain holes in the forward and defensive groups with specific players it greatly benefited the special teams. Cernak on PK 1 defense and Granlund on the PP2 center position greatly improves at least on paper what they had last year.

 

So I do realize this is my wish list and the team could look nothing like this next season. I just hope Benning and Co. uses some of this type of thinking when they are filling these positions; the roles each player plays and how they can help their team in the secondary roles matters just as importantly as they help them in their primary roles.   

 

 

 

excellent, well thought out.

 

IMHO i would resign Travis Hamonic , but if Cernak can be had for the same price..................

 

 

 

 

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In today’s world/salary cap era/expansion draft it’s funny how posters think “ there’s no way Tampa GM will trade Cernak for a top 10 pick” of course he will have to or lose talent for nothing. No GM wants to give away or lose players but Tampa for example are in a ‘win now’ mode but have the luxury of losing a couple top players because A. They won the cup last year B. Are making a push for a second straight cup run and C. Have a pipeline of talent on the farm from drafting. We will gladly help them out like we helped out Vegas not because they are up against it cap wise. 

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1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

TB are in cap hell for next season.  They are already over 5m in cap with only 19 players signed.  The only trades they can make (in order to unload some salary) is for a pic or a prospect.  They don't have their 1st or 2nd round picks for this year and will likely not have them for next year, as they will probably have to trade their 1st to unload a contract to Seattle. Desperate times take desperate measures.

 

Cernak is not their top pairing RD; that would be Sergachev.  They also have Foote coming along.  Knowing TB, they probably have a decent prospect in their ranks as well.

 

They have to unload cap, while also trying to avoid losing a top player in the ED.  I think they would gladly take the 9th overall (and possibly a prospect) for Cernak and Johnson - that's $8m in cap.  Of course, I would much rather claim Cerilli, but I doubt TB would do that.

 

 

 

They were just as much in cap hell last off-season.  Brisebois made it clear then that he had absolutely no intention of trading Sergachev, Cernak or Cirelli.  He explained that they are still so young and just scratching the surface.  He says they need them if they ever want to win another Cup.  Why would anything change now? 

 

The players they wish to move are likely the same they were considering moving last off-season before Kucherov ended on LTIR - it pushed back the inevitable trades they need to make.

 

Edited by mll
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4 minutes ago, NucksIn50 said:

In today’s world/salary cap era/expansion draft it’s funny how posters think “ there’s no way Tampa GM will trade Cernak for a top 10 pick” of course he will have to or lose talent for nothing. No GM wants to give away or lose players but Tampa for example are in a ‘win now’ mode but have the luxury of losing a couple top players because A. They won the cup last year B. Are making a push for a second straight cup run and C. Have a pipeline of talent on the farm from drafting. We will gladly help them out like we helped out Vegas not because they are up against it cap wise. 

But that's ONLY after Petey and Hughes (and Hamonic) have re-signed, then we have money to play around with still.  After buying out Jake (or mutual termination due to the lawsuit charges), burying Roussel/ Loui, LTIR Beagle/ Ferland and letting someone like Holtby (hopefully!) go to Seattle, we could probably pull off another Nate Schmidt-type deal, and it'd be awesome to poach someone like Yanni Gourde (he's got a big contract for sure but his speed and two-way ability would really help the 3rd line).  [P.S. I didn't check to see how much cap space they would actually have after all the dead weight moves, so if there's enough money to go for a big RHD to pair with Schmidt e.g. Larsson then that would be the big-minute D pair].

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Pearson - Horvat - Podkolzin (strong, imposing two-way unit)
Motte - Gourde - Hoglander (smaller but feisty, fast and talented 3rd line)
Highmore/ Hawryluk - Lind/ Boyd - Lockwood/ MacEwen 

Hughes - Hamonic
Rathbone - Schmidt (could be the tough-minutes pair depending on Jack's progress, or sub in Juolevi)
Juolevi - Myers 

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Tampa won’t trade away Cernak. They will be looking at McDonaugh and Cal Foote as dmen that will be exposed.  
 

Also we’re not buying out Holtby, he either gets picked by Seattle or he comes back to finish out his contract with us and give us the most stable goalie duo in the league. 
 

OP, I don’t mind your proposals though. 

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8 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

So well building my wish list for the 2021-22 line-up. I did something that probably most fans wouldn't I tired to make everyone happy. Fans that want to win now management included. Fans who want to keep re-building and fans that want to keep collecting assets. Then finally where there was some debate as to who to go with I chose the player that I wanted but still filled the role IMO fills the role best (more to come on this player).

 

First, I looked at the Cap that the Canucks can have available to them without having to pull off some ridiculous trade i.e. trading Eriksson for a first just to clear his 6 mill. This runs counter productive to those who what to keep assets and keep rebuilding. I have already written a topic on Cap availability so I will quickly do a summary here. Holtby and Virtanen are the best buyout candidates. Eriksson and Roussel it is just best to bury their contracts in the AHL. Ferland is LTIR. This leaves the team with roughly 26-27 million.

 

Second, I looked at the players that need to be re-signed I didn't worry about those that will most likely end up in the AHL and only put my attention to those that have a high probability to make the team or are already on the team. There were 3; Hughes Pettersson and Juolevi.

 

Juolevi IMO hasn't proven much so will probably be signed for less than a mill I allocated .950 mill for 2 years I call this a pretty standard contract for a guy in his position.

 

Hughes and Pettersson, will most likely end up in the same range I could see Pettersson getting a little more. IMHO this team can not afford to go long term deals with them so the more obvious choice is a bridge deal 2-3 years. I allocated 6.5 mill to each of them but I could see Hughes at 6.25 mill and Pettersson at 6.75 mill. These would make them the highest payed players on the team and set them up to earn big dollar 8 year contracts after the bridge has expired due to the fact that this would most likely be the ending point of the flat cap era.

 

Third, I looked at the positions that where needed to be filled and how one might be able to fill them that allowed the team to compete going forward and still gain assets and rebuild.

The Positions that had to be filled is 3rd line center, top 4 defense preferable a player who could play with and make Hughes better and can bring a defensive presence to the pairing. IMHO these 2 positions where the most important with 3rd line winger Defensive depth and back-up goalie taking a backseat but still needing to be filled.

 

First was the Defenseman, I took consideration of everyone's picks for this position and one player stood out the most. Erik Cernak 24 years old on on a cap hit 2.95 mill. So I asked myself what would pry him from TBL. So I looked at the Canucks assets and I could only find one that made sense. So you guys will ask me why it makes sense so let me explain. The asset I am talking about is the Canucks 9th over all pick. I asked myself do the Canucks need another top 10 pick or do they need an asset plus a draft pick. At 24 years old Cernak is by far more developed than any player the Canucks can pick at 9th. A 9th pick this season will most likely take 2 years before they even play for the Canucks and 3-5 years before they could meaningfully contribute to the team something Cernak can do this season and seasons to come. Cernak is also exactly what Hughes needs he is another up and coming Tanev if not already with a little more offensive upside and has post 1st unit PK mins with TBL. 

 

So this is the trade I propose. TBL does not have a 1st this year therefor I propose, Cernak and their 1st rounder for 2022 for the Canucks 9th overall this season (I would also be willing to throw in the Canucks 3rd or 4th rounder next season). Why does TBL do this. I come up with a couple of reasons. First ,TBL needs to clear cap space this helps them do it. This trade reminds me of another trade TBL made with the Canucks the Miller trade each side got fair value (I do believe this is a fair value hockey trade). Third, TBL Defense will not take that much of a hit with this trade. McDonagh plays the most PK mins on TBL and is currently there best defensive defenseman and still contributes at a decent offensive pace for them even at 31 years old. Forth, why would they want a 9th overall now. My reasoning behind this is they want the 9th for the same reason the Canucks don't really need the 9th overall pick. That player will take time to develop. As players get older on TBL they will need to replace them with cheap ELC contracts that have a better chance of becoming players who can contribute. TBL has traded their 1st rounder this year to make this run, They traded their first rounders (they had 2) last year to make the push that year. They will be on the verge of being where Vancouver was 7 years ago if they don't start having first round picks (empty cupboards). Or they could flip the pick this year with a guy like Johnson to help clear some more cap space.

 

For the Canucks it makes tons of sense get a young D partner for Hughes and a second first round pick next season (personally I am happy they don't have a pick this season as it could be a very low even  #32 first rounder. It is highly unlikely they could 3 peat). This trade allows them to continue the rebuild and gain a valuable asset on a cheap contract for the next 3 years and to retain him for more than 10 years.

 

Second was the 3rd line center position. I looked at a couple of your guys picks for this position mainly Phillip Danault, whom would fill this role very nicely. However, I killed this Idea in my mind for one major reason the cost could be to high. It was already reported that he said no to a 5 mill contract this could be rumor but if not then more then 5 mill is to much for this position. IMHO this position can be allocated somewhere between 4-5 mill due to the fact it is a center and this player could easily have to fill in a top 2 role with injuries which  I do wonder if Danault could do for this team. Danualt in my mind could be looking to get 2nd line Center mins and money.

In this position I decided to go with my guy Mikael Granlund. That's right you have heard it from me before. He can PP the second Unit for the Canucks. Nash also had him on their #1 PK unit. IMO he would be better suited on the second unit PK for the Canucks and Beagle on the first unit. I favor him over others because the Canucks can pay him for the guy he is now instead of the guy he was before and he has the most offensive potential. I allocated, 4.75 mill for 5 years for him. I believe that most teams will offer him 4 so we can get him at 5. Last year he was a last min signing by Nash it was reported that he was looking for term and Nash didn't want to give it to him. Now a year older at 29 5 years is still reasonable (33 at end of 5 year contract) the Canucks might get bit on the last year. However, I would argue Granlund is very consistent year over year and has a complete game. I also believe he could top his career year (26 goals 43 assists for 69pt) in the right circumstances. 4.75 mill for a player that consistently can get .5pts a game who can play both 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK well centering your 3rd line seems like a no brainer to me even if it costs the Canucks an extra year on term. Finally there is nobody in the Canucks organization to fill this role any time soon and it needs to be filled with someone who can contribute today if the Canucks want to contend even for a playoff spot next season. As Granlund ages the goal would be for him to either move to wing or 4th line center in his last year and have a ELC contract replace him at center. With 2 1st round draft picks next season with a Cernak trade they need to draft someone who can fill this role in 3-5 years.

 

Third Defensive Depth, I allocated 1.25 mill to this position. What I looked for was someone whom could bring a veteran presence to the left side but wouldn't have a problem being rotated in and out of the line up an getting maybe 50 games or so. The player I chose was John Merrill 1.25 mill for 2 years. I thought giving him 2 years would seal the deal for the Canucks as some teams I believe would offer him a 1 year deal. He is what he is a depth dman nothing special but he wont hurt the team. 

 

Forth, 3rd line right winger, after allocating money to all the other positions there isn't that much left for this position but there was a player who stood out for me that the Canucks could sign on the cheap. Brandon Sutter. I allocated 1.75 mill over 2 years to him. First why 2 years, simple when Beagle leaves next season I want him to center The Canucks 4th line and for Sutter and Granlund to split PK center time in that 2nd year. Therefore, 2 years gives who ever is going to fil that 4th line center and 3rd line winger position (Lind, Lockwood or other) and PK center position time to develop that player could even play that second year full time on wing or at center with Sutter on his line similar to Miller and Pettersson.

 

Fifth, The Back-up goalie, This is a hard one for me. My pick would be Dipietro but I have listen to the fans and give you the choice, I have allocated 1.20 mill to this position. One pick I might suggest is a Vet like Curtis McElhinney. But to me it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't cost more than 1.20 mill.

 

My Finally 2021-22 wish list Line-up

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearsson Horvat Pods

Hoglander Granlund Sutter

Motte Beagle Highmore

Gadjovich (13th forward brings some toughness if needed)

 

Hughes Cernak

Rathbone Schmidt

Juolevi Myers

Merrill

 

Demko

McElhinney (or pick your guy no more than 1.20mill though)

 

PP 1 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Hughes Horvat

 

PP2 

Hoglander Grandlund Pods

Rathbone (Myers, Schmidt, Pearsson  I like this many options)

 

PK1 

Beagle Motte

Juolevi (Merrill) Cenrak

 

PK2 

Granlund Sutter 

Rathbone Schmidt

 

Cap Hit $81,458,212, Cap space remaining $14,788

 

The Complaint that I hear coming is that is to tight. Well those who like this cap stuff will tell you; to utilize Ferlands LTIR effectively a team has to get as close to the cap ceiling as possible or a team can lose cap space. So this is what I have done.

 

Conclusion

 

The most important thing I looked at was the depth particularly at the center position and the role it plays on a team. I feel that The lose of Pettersson really hurt what the Canucks could do with their forward group. So now if Pettersson or Horvat where to get injured we have Granlund to step in to a top 2 center position and Sutter to take his place on the third line. The other possibility is that Miller takes the center role and Hoglander moves from 3rd line to the 1st line winger position.

 

The Second thing that was Important and I would say almost equally important was defense. Again the depth but more importantly the roles these players had to play. Cernak as the Defensive type for Hughes and Merrill as a veteran presence on the left side.

 

If you look at my special teams line-up you will notice, by filling certain holes in the forward and defensive groups with specific players it greatly benefited the special teams. Cernak on PK 1 defense and Granlund on the PP2 center position greatly improves at least on paper what they had last year.

 

So I do realize this is my wish list and the team could look nothing like this next season. I just hope Benning and Co. uses some of this type of thinking when they are filling these positions; the roles each player plays and how they can help their team in the secondary roles matters just as importantly as they help them in their primary roles.   

 

 

 

I like what you have done here, and get the direction you are going.  

Another option would be to make a lesser offer to TBL that doesn't involve 1sts for Foote.  I think that may be more feasible than going after Cernak and losing a significant asset.  TBL is going to be in a real tough spot cap wise next year.  I think you may be able to get Foote and Palat/Killhorn for a 2nd, Ferland, one of our prospects who may be able to play next year.  This clears a ton of Cap for TBL, and they get some futures. We get a top 6 forward, future top 4 D.

 

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my beliefs have always been that each scoring line needs, a playmaker, a scorer, some grit and at least 2 of the 3, good defensive play. somy line up would look like this;

------------, petey, boeser. so a gritty 2 way winger like miller

pearson, horvat, hoglander

motte, miller, podkolzin.

in this model, we would only need a fast, 2 way winger for petey's line.

miller could be centering and mentoring podkolzin

this would mean we'ld have to move, buy out or walk away from, sutter, vesey, edler, virtanen, roussel, erikssonand holtby.

our defense will take longer. i see;

schmidt and ---------

hughes and hamonic,

rathbone and myers,

juolevi and woo.

we need a top 4 defensively strong to play edlers minutes.

first they must sign petey, hughes, clark and harmonic.

i see us needing to lose money, find a good tough, fast winger for petey, a strong defensive top 4 d-man.

we could be that close.

4th line from highmore, graovac, lockwood, lind, gadjovich, macewen, hawryluk, boyd or beagle if he comes back.

 

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4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Granlund doesn't strike me as a 3C solution. His value is as a middle 6 winger. He is not particularly good at faceoffs and really doesn't bring what we need as a 3C.

 

If you are going to pay a similar cap hit, you get Danault all day every day.

Granlund is playing C1 in Nashville.  No forward is more trusted by Hynes than him.   In the playoffs he took the most face-offs and averaged 23:40 - 3 minutes more than the next forward.  They are looking to bring him back - it even sounds like a priority with the praise he has received both from Poile and Hynes.  Don't see why he'd want to sign as a C3 when he is used as a C1.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, mll said:

Granlund is playing C1 in Nashville.  No forward is more trusted by Hynes than him.   In the playoffs he took the most face-offs and averaged 23:40 - 3 minutes more than the next forward.  They are looking to bring him back - it even sounds like a priority with the praise he has received both from Poile and Hynes.  Don't see why he'd want to sign as a C3 when he is used as a C1.

 

 

He is likely a short term solution at C though. Their dual train wreck Johansen and Duchene give them little choice. 

 

I don't see him as anything other than more of the same if we play him as a 3C. As a winger to replace Pearson in the top 6? Sure, why not. But him as 3C means Horvat stays our top defensive center which limits his line's ability to be a consistent top 6 scoring line.

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Yeah Tampa isn't likely moving Cernak. And if they do, it's not likely for a first (would require serious assets). We'd be far better off trying to target Foote (still unlikely but at least plausible).

 

They likely pay Seattle to take one of Johnson (likely) or McDonagh.

 

We could trade them Ferland for Killorn + (pick? prospect?) though. 'Dumping' one of Johnson/McDonagh to SEA and saving $1m on swapping Killorn/Ferland gets them just under the cap. Then they use Ferland's LTIR space to perhaps extend Savard (if he'll agree to wait to sign until a day after season opener/sign a PTO for camp).

 

Some other moves to explore:

 

-Roussel + Lind +? for Jenner

 

-Schmidt +? For Ladd (cap) + Dobson

 

-Re-sign Edler x 1 year and Hamonic x 2 as interim players.

 

Miller, Pettersson, Boeser

Pearson, Horvat, Hoglander

Killorn, Jenner, Podkolzin

Highmore, Beagle, Motte

 

MacEwan?

 

Hughes, Hamonic (until Dobson is ready)

Juolevi/Rathbone, Myers

Edler, Dobson

 

Juolevi/Rathbone/Edler rotate as spares.

 

Demko

Holtby

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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yeah Tampa isn't likely moving Cernak. And if they do, it's not likely for a first (would require serious assets). We'd be far better off trying to target Foote (still unlikely but at least plausible).

 

They likely pay Seattle to take one of Johnson (likely) or McDonagh.

 

We could trade them Ferland for Killorn + (pick? prospect?) though. 'Dumping' one of Johnson/McDonagh to SEA and saving $1m on swapping Killorn/Ferland gets them just under the cap. Then they use Ferland's LTIR space to perhaps extend Savard (if he'll agree to wait to sign until a day after season opener/sign a PTO for camp).

 

Some other moves to explore:

 

-Roussel + Lind +? for Jenner

 

-Schmidt +? For Ladd (cap) + Dobson

 

-Re-sign Edler x 1 year and Hamonic x 2 as interim players.

 

Miller, Pettersson, Boeser

Pearson, Horvat, Hoglander

Killorn, Jenner, Podkolzin

Highmore, Beagle, Motte

 

MacEwan?

 

Hughes, Hamonic (until Dobson is ready)

Juolevi/Rathbone, Myers

Edler, Dobson

 

Juolevi/Rathbone/Edler rotate as spares.

 

Demko

Holtby

I also think the path of least pain for Tampa is to pay Seattle to take a big contract. They have a few players they could potentially lose so trading one of them for futures only to lose another one for nothing to Seattle doesnt really help them.

 

I am comfortable if Benning maintains some status quo this offseason for one more year. 

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10 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He is likely a short term solution at C though. Their dual train wreck Johansen and Duchene give them little choice. 

 

I don't see him as anything other than more of the same if we play him as a 3C. As a winger to replace Pearson in the top 6? Sure, why not. But him as 3C means Horvat stays our top defensive center which limits his line's ability to be a consistent top 6 scoring line.

Not if you listen to Hynes.  He prefers him as a C than as a winger and Hynes is not going anywhere.   Nashville's roster was a mess this season with their injuries and  needing to try out some prospects and even AHLers to fill their spots.  They've had him playing with Forsberg - it's likely their top line for next season if they can get him under contract. 

 

Granlund is excellent defensively btw.  He was the Wild's shutdown line playing with Koivu.  They took on all the toughest matchups but still produced.  Boudreau was even joking that he never had a shutdown line that could produce at that rate since the ECHL - always called Granlund his best player.

 

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3 minutes ago, mll said:

Not if you listen to Hynes.  He prefers him as a C than as a winger and Hynes is not going anywhere.   Nashville's roster was a mess this season with their injuries and  needing to try out some prospects and even AHLers to fill their spots.  They've had him playing with Forsberg - it's likely their top line for next season if they can get him under contract. 

 

Granlund is excellent defensively btw.  He was the Wild's shutdown line playing with Koivu.  They took on all the toughest matchups but still produced.  Boudreau was even joking that he never had a shutdown line that could produce at that rate since the ECHL - always called Granlund his best player.

 

So you think Granlund - who did not center that shutdown line - will be able to come in with the far inferior wingers he will have to play with and drive the results of a shutdown line? Thats a big risk if you are paying him almost 5 mil a year long term as the op stated.

 

If you are paying that much for a 3rd line center go all in for Danault. If not, there are cheaper options that could fill in for a year.

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