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My final 2021-22 line-up wish list. (I tried to take in account what the fan base wants and management)

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1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So you think Granlund - who did not center that shutdown line - will be able to come in with the far inferior wingers he will have to play with and drive the results of a shutdown line? Thats a big risk if you are paying him almost 5 mil a year long term as the op stated.

 

If you are paying that much for a 3rd line center go all in for Danault. If not, there are cheaper options that could fill in for a year.

I am saying he's unlikely to be coming to Vancouver.   Why would he when he can get as much if not more in Nashville with a bigger role.  

 

Danault doesn't seem to want to be a C3 - that's in part why he turned down the 6x 5M in Montreal.  He was pretty candid about how he didn't like his role in the bubble with Kotkaniemi and Suzuki playing offence above him.  He was saying that he thought he had proved he is a top-6 C and didn't want to be stuck in a defensive role.  

 

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10 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

So well building my wish list for the 2021-22 line-up. I did something that probably most fans wouldn't I tired to make everyone happy. Fans that want to win now management included. Fans who want to keep re-building and fans that want to keep collecting assets. Then finally where there was some debate as to who to go with I chose the player that I wanted but still filled the role IMO fills the role best (more to come on this player).

 

First, I looked at the Cap that the Canucks can have available to them without having to pull off some ridiculous trade i.e. trading Eriksson for a first just to clear his 6 mill. This runs counter productive to those who what to keep assets and keep rebuilding. I have already written a topic on Cap availability so I will quickly do a summary here. Holtby and Virtanen are the best buyout candidates. Eriksson and Roussel it is just best to bury their contracts in the AHL. Ferland is LTIR. This leaves the team with roughly 26-27 million.

 

Second, I looked at the players that need to be re-signed I didn't worry about those that will most likely end up in the AHL and only put my attention to those that have a high probability to make the team or are already on the team. There were 3; Hughes Pettersson and Juolevi.

 

Juolevi IMO hasn't proven much so will probably be signed for less than a mill I allocated .950 mill for 2 years I call this a pretty standard contract for a guy in his position.

 

Hughes and Pettersson, will most likely end up in the same range I could see Pettersson getting a little more. IMHO this team can not afford to go long term deals with them so the more obvious choice is a bridge deal 2-3 years. I allocated 6.5 mill to each of them but I could see Hughes at 6.25 mill and Pettersson at 6.75 mill. These would make them the highest payed players on the team and set them up to earn big dollar 8 year contracts after the bridge has expired due to the fact that this would most likely be the ending point of the flat cap era.

 

Third, I looked at the positions that where needed to be filled and how one might be able to fill them that allowed the team to compete going forward and still gain assets and rebuild.

The Positions that had to be filled is 3rd line center, top 4 defense preferable a player who could play with and make Hughes better and can bring a defensive presence to the pairing. IMHO these 2 positions where the most important with 3rd line winger Defensive depth and back-up goalie taking a backseat but still needing to be filled.

 

First was the Defenseman, I took consideration of everyone's picks for this position and one player stood out the most. Erik Cernak 24 years old on on a cap hit 2.95 mill. So I asked myself what would pry him from TBL. So I looked at the Canucks assets and I could only find one that made sense. So you guys will ask me why it makes sense so let me explain. The asset I am talking about is the Canucks 9th over all pick. I asked myself do the Canucks need another top 10 pick or do they need an asset plus a draft pick. At 24 years old Cernak is by far more developed than any player the Canucks can pick at 9th. A 9th pick this season will most likely take 2 years before they even play for the Canucks and 3-5 years before they could meaningfully contribute to the team something Cernak can do this season and seasons to come. Cernak is also exactly what Hughes needs he is another up and coming Tanev if not already with a little more offensive upside and has post 1st unit PK mins with TBL. 

 

So this is the trade I propose. TBL does not have a 1st this year therefor I propose, Cernak and their 1st rounder for 2022 for the Canucks 9th overall this season (I would also be willing to throw in the Canucks 3rd or 4th rounder next season). Why does TBL do this. I come up with a couple of reasons. First ,TBL needs to clear cap space this helps them do it. This trade reminds me of another trade TBL made with the Canucks the Miller trade each side got fair value (I do believe this is a fair value hockey trade). Third, TBL Defense will not take that much of a hit with this trade. McDonagh plays the most PK mins on TBL and is currently there best defensive defenseman and still contributes at a decent offensive pace for them even at 31 years old. Forth, why would they want a 9th overall now. My reasoning behind this is they want the 9th for the same reason the Canucks don't really need the 9th overall pick. That player will take time to develop. As players get older on TBL they will need to replace them with cheap ELC contracts that have a better chance of becoming players who can contribute. TBL has traded their 1st rounder this year to make this run, They traded their first rounders (they had 2) last year to make the push that year. They will be on the verge of being where Vancouver was 7 years ago if they don't start having first round picks (empty cupboards). Or they could flip the pick this year with a guy like Johnson to help clear some more cap space.

 

For the Canucks it makes tons of sense get a young D partner for Hughes and a second first round pick next season (personally I am happy they don't have a pick this season as it could be a very low even  #32 first rounder. It is highly unlikely they could 3 peat). This trade allows them to continue the rebuild and gain a valuable asset on a cheap contract for the next 3 years and to retain him for more than 10 years.

 

Second was the 3rd line center position. I looked at a couple of your guys picks for this position mainly Phillip Danault, whom would fill this role very nicely. However, I killed this Idea in my mind for one major reason the cost could be to high. It was already reported that he said no to a 5 mill contract this could be rumor but if not then more then 5 mill is to much for this position. IMHO this position can be allocated somewhere between 4-5 mill due to the fact it is a center and this player could easily have to fill in a top 2 role with injuries which  I do wonder if Danault could do for this team. Danualt in my mind could be looking to get 2nd line Center mins and money.

In this position I decided to go with my guy Mikael Granlund. That's right you have heard it from me before. He can PP the second Unit for the Canucks. Nash also had him on their #1 PK unit. IMO he would be better suited on the second unit PK for the Canucks and Beagle on the first unit. I favor him over others because the Canucks can pay him for the guy he is now instead of the guy he was before and he has the most offensive potential. I allocated, 4.75 mill for 5 years for him. I believe that most teams will offer him 4 so we can get him at 5. Last year he was a last min signing by Nash it was reported that he was looking for term and Nash didn't want to give it to him. Now a year older at 29 5 years is still reasonable (33 at end of 5 year contract) the Canucks might get bit on the last year. However, I would argue Granlund is very consistent year over year and has a complete game. I also believe he could top his career year (26 goals 43 assists for 69pt) in the right circumstances. 4.75 mill for a player that consistently can get .5pts a game who can play both 2nd unit PP and 2nd unit PK well centering your 3rd line seems like a no brainer to me even if it costs the Canucks an extra year on term. Finally there is nobody in the Canucks organization to fill this role any time soon and it needs to be filled with someone who can contribute today if the Canucks want to contend even for a playoff spot next season. As Granlund ages the goal would be for him to either move to wing or 4th line center in his last year and have a ELC contract replace him at center. With 2 1st round draft picks next season with a Cernak trade they need to draft someone who can fill this role in 3-5 years.

 

Third Defensive Depth, I allocated 1.25 mill to this position. What I looked for was someone whom could bring a veteran presence to the left side but wouldn't have a problem being rotated in and out of the line up an getting maybe 50 games or so. The player I chose was John Merrill 1.25 mill for 2 years. I thought giving him 2 years would seal the deal for the Canucks as some teams I believe would offer him a 1 year deal. He is what he is a depth dman nothing special but he wont hurt the team. 

 

Forth, 3rd line right winger, after allocating money to all the other positions there isn't that much left for this position but there was a player who stood out for me that the Canucks could sign on the cheap. Brandon Sutter. I allocated 1.75 mill over 2 years to him. First why 2 years, simple when Beagle leaves next season I want him to center The Canucks 4th line and for Sutter and Granlund to split PK center time in that 2nd year. Therefore, 2 years gives who ever is going to fil that 4th line center and 3rd line winger position (Lind, Lockwood or other) and PK center position time to develop that player could even play that second year full time on wing or at center with Sutter on his line similar to Miller and Pettersson.

 

Fifth, The Back-up goalie, This is a hard one for me. My pick would be Dipietro but I have listen to the fans and give you the choice, I have allocated 1.20 mill to this position. One pick I might suggest is a Vet like Curtis McElhinney. But to me it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't cost more than 1.20 mill.

 

My Finally 2021-22 wish list Line-up

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearsson Horvat Pods

Hoglander Granlund Sutter

Motte Beagle Highmore

Gadjovich (13th forward brings some toughness if needed)

 

Hughes Cernak

Rathbone Schmidt

Juolevi Myers

Merrill

 

Demko

McElhinney (or pick your guy no more than 1.20mill though)

 

PP 1 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Hughes Horvat

 

PP2 

Hoglander Grandlund Pods

Rathbone (Myers, Schmidt, Pearsson  I like this many options)

 

PK1 

Beagle Motte

Juolevi (Merrill) Cenrak

 

PK2 

Granlund Sutter 

Rathbone Schmidt

 

Cap Hit $81,458,212, Cap space remaining $14,788

 

The Complaint that I hear coming is that is to tight. Well those who like this cap stuff will tell you; to utilize Ferlands LTIR effectively a team has to get as close to the cap ceiling as possible or a team can lose cap space. So this is what I have done.

 

Conclusion

 

The most important thing I looked at was the depth particularly at the center position and the role it plays on a team. I feel that The lose of Pettersson really hurt what the Canucks could do with their forward group. So now if Pettersson or Horvat where to get injured we have Granlund to step in to a top 2 center position and Sutter to take his place on the third line. The other possibility is that Miller takes the center role and Hoglander moves from 3rd line to the 1st line winger position.

 

The Second thing that was Important and I would say almost equally important was defense. Again the depth but more importantly the roles these players had to play. Cernak as the Defensive type for Hughes and Merrill as a veteran presence on the left side.

 

If you look at my special teams line-up you will notice, by filling certain holes in the forward and defensive groups with specific players it greatly benefited the special teams. Cernak on PK 1 defense and Granlund on the PP2 center position greatly improves at least on paper what they had last year.

 

So I do realize this is my wish list and the team could look nothing like this next season. I just hope Benning and Co. uses some of this type of thinking when they are filling these positions; the roles each player plays and how they can help their team in the secondary roles matters just as importantly as they help them in their primary roles.   

 

 

 

Great work Arrow........I like your premise and it, made me come up with a trade, which I will post on my own thread, but way to think outside the box. Maybe not too outside, but at least you tried to improve the team.

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12 minutes ago, mll said:

I am saying he's unlikely to be coming to Vancouver.   Why would he when he can get as much if not more in Nashville with a bigger role.  

 

Danault doesn't seem to want to be a C3 - that's in part why he turned down the 6x 5M in Montreal.  He was pretty candid about how he didn't like his role in the bubble with Kotkaniemi and Suzuki playing offence above him.  He was saying that he thought he had proved he is a top-6 C and didn't want to be stuck in a defensive role.  

 

I dont disagree with either point here. Neither islikely to come to Vancouver. I just said if you were going to go after one it should be Danault all else being equal.

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2 hours ago, mll said:

 

They were just as much in cap hell last off-season.  Brisebois made it clear then that he had absolutely no intention of trading Sergachev, Cernak or Cirelli.  He explained that they are still so young and just scratching the surface.  He says they need them if they ever want to win another Cup.  Why would anything change now? 

 

The players they wish to move are likely the same they were considering moving last off-season before Kucherov ended on LTIR - it pushed back the inevitable trades they need to make.

 

Because they are about to win another cup this year. If they do a lot changes. They could very well be able  to digest the fact that they could have to lose one of their young defense men

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5 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

Because they are about to win another cup this year. If they do a lot changes. They could very well be able  to digest the fact that they could have to lose one of their young defense men

Nothing changed after they won last time.  Most teams try and maximise their window to try and win as many Cups as they can.  Why would he want to water down his D-corps when he really doesn't have to.  It's up front that they have extra players.   Teams don't typically trade core players on great contracts when they are looking to clear cap space.  

 

 

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Not bad @Arrow 1983

 

Only thing I’ll say is that I can’t see Tampa getting rid of Cernak since Tampa has cap problems while Cernak is one of their few cost controlled assets.

 

Here is what I came up with in another thread:

 

[proposal] Summer Plan II:  Schmidt/Lindholm + Sign Wennberg + Go after an RHD

 

 

1) Sign Alex Wennberg.   This shouldn't cost more than 3-3.5 million.   

 

2) Buyout Virtanen (2.5 million cap hit savings), and apply that money to Travis Hamonic (so approx. 1.25 + 2.5 = 3.75.......probably won’t even require that much.  3 year deal).

 

3) Contingent on #1, but trade Roussel with a minor sweetener.   Entice Seattle with a minor sweetener to take Roussel off our hands if necessary.  So basically, Roussel's money goes to Alex Wennberg from above.

 

4) To Van:  Hampus Lindholm (contract extension prior to trade).  

To Ana:   Schmidt, 9th, Lind

 

Lindholm new cap hit = 6.5 million, but his current cap hit of 5.2 millionish would save us about 700K in cap for this season.

 

4) Sutter, Baertschi, Spooner, and Edler money (4.375 + 3.366 + 1.033 +  6 = 14.744 million.      

 

5) Pettersson and Hughes gets the Matthew Barzal contract (7  x 3 ).   14.744 million - [6.075] = 8.669 million (left to sign Q.Hughes).   6.075 million = difference between what we're paying EP now and what EP would be getting with 7 million.  I didn't factor in player bonuses, as I don't know how AAV is applied towards the cap).  I'm also assuming that EP would still be an RFA after this proposed contract?  (if not, then structure the deal where he either gets taken to RFA status again after the deal, or give him a 5 year term).

 

6) Coming up with money to extend Hughes (also 7 x 3).   8.669 - 6.0833  = 2.5857 money left over (6.0833 = the difference between what Hughes makes now and Hughes at a proposed 7 million dollar cap hit.  I didn't factor in AAV because I don't know who this affects the cap).

 

7) Eriksson in the minors = [6-4.875 = 1.125 million savings].   2.5857 + 1.125 = 3.7125 million.   3.7125 + 700K = $4.4125

 

[Please note - my math is probably *way* off here but this is just a rough ball park of what I had in mind]

 

With this 4.4125 million, the Canucks could probably afford David Savard at this point.........but if they cleared up a few more dollars, would likely be able to get Tyson Barrie.   

 

 

2021-2022 roster:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Podkolzin

Vesey-Wennberg-Hoglander  (or Bailey instead of Vesey)

Motte-Beagle-Highmore

 

Lindholm-Barrie

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Myers (or Juolevi-Myers)

 

Demko

Holtby

 

For 2022:

 

1) Dipietro replaces Holtby (approx 3.3 million in savings assuming that Dipietro's new contract at this point would be around 1 million AAV?  I have no idea).   

2) Beagle and Eriksson come off the books = 9 million 

3) Luongo cap penalty off the books = 3.025 million

3) MASSIVE upgrade on Jimmy Vesey [Filip Forsberg]

4) MASSIVE upgrade on Hamonic [Klingberg or Parayko]

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Forsberg-Horvat-Podkolzin

Pearson-Wennberg-Hoglander

Motte-SomeoneCheap-Highmore

 

Hughes-[KlingbergORParayko]

Lindholm-Barrie

Juolevi-Myers (or Rathbone)

 

Hamonic

 

Demko

Dipietro

 

I wonder if something like that gets errr done?   

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20 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I dont disagree with either point here. Neither islikely to come to Vancouver. I just said if you were going to go after one it should be Danault all else being equal.

We agree - neither look to be realistic options.  Drance thinks the plan is to start Miller as C3 next season.  It's normally easier to find wingers.  

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Posted (edited)

Thinking out loud here but if a player is suspended without pay (assuming we can do so with Virtanen), do they even need to be bought out? Perhaps someone who knows the CBA legalities better would know if this is an option ( @mll ?).

 

It could be a similar (different reasons obviously) situation to the Jets suspending Byfuglien a couple years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now clearly, we'd need to fit his cap should any legal proceedings be cleared up before his contract expires but this could be an  otherwise 'easy' solution to some of our cap problems in the interim.

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1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Thinking out loud here but if a player is suspended without pay (Virtanen), do they even need to be bought out? Perhaps someone who knows the CBA legalities better would know if this is an option ( @mll ?).

 

It could be a similar (different reasons obviously) situation to the Jets suspending Byfuglien a couple years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now clearly, we'd need to fit his cap should any legal proceedings be cleared up before his contract expires but this could be an  otherwise 'easy' solution to some of our cap problems in the interim.

 

Virtanen is not suspended but on leave of absence.  They don't have proof to suspend him.  CapFriendly had his cap hit against the books.  The playing roster for the games he missed lists him on the NHL roster.  See link here where he is listed among the healthy scratches which he wouldn't be if suspended:  http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20202021/RO020634.HTM

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Virtanen is not suspended but on leave of absence.  They don't have proof to suspend him.  CapFriendly had his cap hit against the books.  The playing roster for the games he missed lists him on the NHL roster.  See link here where he is listed among the healthy scratches which he wouldn't be if suspended:  http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20202021/RO020634.HTM

 

That's currently. I guess what I'm asking is, what are there grounds for suspending him/could we suspend him while he's under investigation?

 

I'm assuming their would need to be some legal finality to actually terminate the contract, which could take a year +. Do the Canucks have grounds to suspend him (and hence nix his cap hit) while that process is underway?

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I'd think long and hard about Zach Hyman. Highly unlikely the Canucks could afford him.

 

JT Miller to center the third line. He'd still go on the #1 PP and PK so realistically he'd get top minutes.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mll said:

Nothing changed after they won last time.  Most teams try and maximise their window to try and win as many Cups as they can.  Why would he want to water down his D-corps when he really doesn't have to.  It's up front that they have extra players.   Teams don't typically trade core players on great contracts when they are looking to clear cap space.  

 

 

This season they found away to get rid of 9 million off the cap when kucherov was injured. That scenario doesn't exist this off season. So context matters.

You say typically I would say TBL is not in a typical situation. They are not 1-3 mill over the cap. They have 19 players signed with 5 mill over the cap so really on the minimum they are 8 mill over to be able to fill a roster.

If they do get a contract off the book let's say 5 mill it is only a relieve of about 4 mill because then they have 18 players signed they have to replace that player. 

I'm not at all saying they take the deal I say JB should pitch a deal like that and see where the cards fall. In all the posts it doesn't seem giving up the 9th is an issue the issue seems to be that the trade isn't possible. To you guys I say we don't know.

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26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

That's currently. I guess what I'm asking is, what are there grounds for suspending him/could we suspend him while he's under investigation?

 

I'm assuming their would need to be some legal finality to actually terminate the contract, which could take a year +. Do the Canucks have grounds to suspend him (and hence nix his cap hit) while that process is underway?

 

There is a clause in the CBA that allows to suspend a player during a criminal investigation.  Voynov was suspended indefinitely but it doesn't look like they intervened in the Varlamov situation.  https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/11773836/semyon-varlamov-sued-civil-case-stemming-domestic-violence-incidents

 

Art. 18-A5 of the CBA:  The League may suspend the Player pending the League's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League.

 

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9 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

I'd think long and hard about Zach Hyman. Highly unlikely the Canucks could afford him.

 

JT Miller to center the third line. He'd still go on the #1 PP and PK so realistically he'd get top minutes.

Looking at the UFA list there’s a few LWs (and a few versatile guys who can slide to C in a pinch) who could very well elevate the team.  None will come cheap after our dismal year though.
 

I agree that Miller as “3C” is misleading - he’d still be top 2-3 on the team for forward ice time. It also brings a ton of versatility - we can always reunite the lotto line when down a goal in the 3rd.  He said he learned a lot this year playing the middle - I’d love to see him build off of that.

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3 minutes ago, mll said:

 

There is a clause in the CBA that allows to suspend a player during a criminal investigation.  Voynov was suspended indefinitely but it doesn't look like they intervened in the Varlamov situation.  https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/11773836/semyon-varlamov-sued-civil-case-stemming-domestic-violence-incidents

 

Art. 18-A5 of the CBA:  The League may suspend the Player pending the League's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League.

 

Thanks. So that does in fact look like a legitimate option for us with Virtanen. Good to know.

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6 minutes ago, Arrow 1983 said:

This season they found away to get rid of 9 million off the cap when kucherov was injured. That scenario doesn't exist this off season. So context matters.

You say typically I would say TBL is not in a typical situation. They are not 1-3 mill over the cap. They have 19 players signed with 5 mill over the cap so really on the minimum they are 8 mill over to be able to fill a roster.

If they do get a contract off the book let's say 5 mill it is only a relieve of about 4 mill because then they have 18 players signed they have to replace that player. 

I'm not at all saying they take the deal I say JB should pitch a deal like that and see where the cards fall. In all the posts it doesn't seem giving up the 9th is an issue the issue seems to be that the trade isn't possible. To you guys I say we don't know.

 

Last off-season they were looking to move Johnson (5M) and another contract big contract - they were looking at offers to decide who would be that 2nd player (Killorn, Palat and even Stamkos was not on their untouchable list per McKenzie unlike Cernak, Sergachev and Cirelli).  They probably still want to move Johnson and will still need to lose another big contract.  The priority was to get Sergachev, Cirelli and Cernak under contract - they were not the ones they ever considered trading.  Kucherov going on LTIR just delayed the moves.  

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

That's currently. I guess what I'm asking is, what are there grounds for suspending him/could we suspend him while he's under investigation?

 

I'm assuming their would need to be some legal finality to actually terminate the contract, which could take a year +. Do the Canucks have grounds to suspend him (and hence nix his cap hit) while that process is underway?

Did Chicago suspend Kane while he was under investigation?  The case was dismissed 3 months later and Kane never missed a game in the 2015 season.

 

Patrick Kane rape case dismissed, district attorney says - ABC7 Chicago

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1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Did Chicago suspend Kane while he was under investigation?  The case was dismissed 3 months later and Kane never missed a game in the 2015 season.

 

Patrick Kane rape case dismissed, district attorney says - ABC7 Chicago

Yeah the Canucks would need pretty good indication that formal charges were being laid etc to do so I'd imagine...hopefully there's some clarity there, one way or another, in the next month or so.

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30 minutes ago, mll said:

 

There is a clause in the CBA that allows to suspend a player during a criminal investigation.  Voynov was suspended indefinitely but it doesn't look like they intervened in the Varlamov situation.  https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/11773836/semyon-varlamov-sued-civil-case-stemming-domestic-violence-incidents

 

Art. 18-A5 of the CBA:  The League may suspend the Player pending the League's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League.

 

Voynov was arrested and spent 2 months in jail.  That's a big difference that what is currently the situation with Virtanen.  The Virtanen situation is very similar to Patrick Kane back in 2015.  Kane was never charged with a crime and the case was dismissed 3 months later.  Kane played the entire 2015 season and never missed a game.

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Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Voynov was arrested and spent 2 months in jail.  That's a big difference that what is currently the situation with Virtanen.  The Virtanen situation is very similar to Patrick Kane back in 2015.  Kane was never charged with a crime and the case was dismissed 3 months later.  Kane played the entire 2015 season and never missed a game.

Varlamov was charged with domestic violence and even spent a night in jail but was never suspended either.  The case was later dismissed.

 

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