(Proposal) Van-Tampa

[86Viking]

3 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

I agree burning a year of QH ELC was pretty dumb. Da hell were they thinking there  smh.

Got all us fans excited but in the end did he make the difference in us winning the cup that year...NOPE we are far far away from that happening still even. But it was introducing the shiny new toy for the owner/fans/team etc. If you are a top prospect going the college route is the best way, you burn a year of your cheap ELC and get to be basically a full year closer to UFA without having to put in a full year.

 

I agree TB will probably protect Cernak over someone like McDonaugh but no team should do Tampa a single favour...especially if they win back to back cups! Seattle should NOT take Johnson and make TB sweat it out and have to pay the piper for being able to circumvent the cap like they did this year and avoid making the necessary changes they should have had to made last off seaason.

 

Time for the NHL and the other teams to stand up and make a stink about this...I mean if you can retroactively screw the Canucks over with the Luongo recapture penalty and let this kind of thing slide by that is a good of a double standard as any is it not!?

 

Other teams do it too, even the Laffs tried it this year but its the laffs...they just suck anyway, heck even a play in Canucks victory last year allowed us a chance in the playoffs and we knocked of the defending Cup champs for god sake AND we were not a legit playoff team when the season got cancelled. That is what makes me laugh even more at the laffs...Our crummy Canuck team can do more against better competition in last years bubble vs the laffs in Canadian playoff division haha.

 

Hate the laffs till the day I day and in my next life too!!

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 hours ago, mll said:

 

The NTC doesn't apply for expansion.  Tampa will need to add a sweetener but it's a unique opportunity to move cap.

 

Tampa can also threaten to waive a player and who knows where he could end up, so they are better off working with Brisebois on a trade.  NTCs can be put on waivers unlike NMCs.  They can also retain in a trade.   They can also buy out players - Johnson is now a 1M cap hit. 

 

Once Kucherov went on LTIR it was no longer pressing to move Johnson or anyone else.  There was no reason to move anyone in season and they are now in the playoffs.  They will need to make the moves this off-season though.

 

It's going to cost them to clear cap but I don't think it's a reason they will trade their core.  Vancouver could use some cap space - I can't imagine Benning would trade Höglander or Podkolzin let alone a core player to make that happen.  If a team needs cap space - they typically look to clear players that aren't seen as essential to the future.

 

I don't think yo appreciate how little they have in prospects in picks to add that appetizer.....they have that 1-1st in the next 2 years, and outside of Cal Foote, which really is not that good, they have little.

 

And yes, they can put them on waivers, but just like Johnson, there is a good possibility that no one claims them. Maybe they do, but maybe they don't.

 

I am not saying you are wrong, but maybe you are over hedging Tampa's position..it will be fun to see and talk about

[Phil_314]

18 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Ok.......I am going to have to lay it out for you......maybe I am missing something here

 

Kucherov and Stamkos has NMC's, Palat, Gourde, Johnson and Maroon have NTC's, Killorn has a M-NTC.............that is $34,000,000

Hedman and McDonagh  have NMC and NTC's.....that is $14,500,000

They are not trading Point, Sergachev, Vasilevskiy, which is another $21,500,000

 

That totals.............$70,000,000 for 10 skaters that they can't or won't get rid of

 

That leaves $11,500,000 for 12 to 13 more men..............of which Cernak and Cirelli make $7,750,000 of that

 

Which then leaves approx. $4,000,000 for 10 to 11 skaters, which averages out at approx. $375,000 per skater, which they absolutely can not do, so they now have to convince one or two of these NMC's or NTC to retire, or wave their clauses, and then after all that, they have to find a team with Cap space that wants to spend it on aging veterans.....for years to come, as none of them expire in anything less than 3 years, except Palat, Point and Cirelli, unless you want to count Maroons 900,000

 

The league did them a solid, and never called BS, but the truth is, they were screwed until Kucherov faked his prolonged injury..............which was all BS

 

So, no one will go, and you have to clear $10,000,000 off the books, and remember Cernak and Cirelli  account for 7,750,000 of their problem, so if Seattle takes a prospect, then Tampa still has to clear that $10 million, with no one wanting to leave, and the players association would be all over any harassment, so.........

 

I do not know how they do it? Would you take a broken down Stamkos? and then another? without any return............because no one is doing them any favors...........

 

This Stamkos, Cernak and a 2022 1st, which then means for the next 2 years the highest pick they have is 1-3rd rounder, and 1-4th rounder.

 

I am sure they find a evil way to get out of it, but the alternative is a trade like what I suggest, where they actually get a return, instead of just giving it away

First of all, your math is off.  The first line of players you listed in bold is close to $39 million ($38.81 million).  With that they already have $4 million less than you are projecting for them.  With that, I do agree that if Seattle takes the prospect then they are screwed, but seeing how Vancouver acquired Nate Schmidt from Vegas for only a 3rd as they wanted to sign Pietrangelo, there's no way that we pay so much.  Also, it's the media that's projecting that TBL will go 4-4-1 but even if they go 7-3-1 and their big ticket guys are left, depending on the salary structure of their trades they could still bury one or more of them instead if they refuse to leave (and I'd be fairly confident that near-contenders would come knocking at the firesale that will be this sell-off).  The team could also keep Cernak and Cirelli off the table even if they don't want to move them or bundle assets to move the pricier vets.  It's not optimal but ultimately it's management's decision if they decide to sell these two studs in their early-20's, though I just don't see it being their first option if they protect them in the ED.        

Edited June 8, 2021 by Phil_314

[J.I.A.H.N]

16 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

First of all, your math is off.  The first line of players you listed in bold is close to $39 million ($38.81 million).  With that they already have $4 million less than you are projecting for them.  With that, I do agree that if Seattle takes the prospect then they are screwed, but seeing how Vancouver acquired Nate Schmidt from Vegas for only a 3rd as they wanted to sign Pietrangelo, there's no way that we pay so much.  Also, it's the media that's projecting that TBL will go 4-4-1 but even if they go 7-3-1 and their big ticket guys are left, depending on the salary structure of their trades they could still bury one or more of them instead if they refuse to leave (and I'd be fairly confident that near-contenders would come knocking at the firesale that will be this sell-off).  The team could also keep Cernak and Cirelli off the table even if they don't want to move them or bundle assets to move the pricier vets.  It's not optimal but ultimately it's management's decision if they decide to sell these two studs in their early-20's, though I just don't see it being their first option if they protect them in the ED.        

I think you are right and ultimately, I do this for fun

 

But what assets are you talking about......please be clear

 

I honestly do not see much/any????

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think ultimately, Tampa should keep all their core and play this out until the end,. go on another playoff run next year, then see if they can re-group and do it again

 

As Mll points out their core is not all that old.......so they may be able to get a few years out of it.........

 

But at the end of the day, they have 10 million to clear

[Bertuzzipunch]

6 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think ultimately, Tampa should keep all their core and play this out until the end,. go on another playoff run next year, then see if they can re-group and do it again

 

As Mll points out their core is not all that old.......so they may be able to get a few years out of it.........

 

But at the end of the day, they have 10 million to clear

Yeah and yeah dont see why any team should help them out with that. 
 

nobody helped us out with that luongo BS

[J.I.A.H.N]

23 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

First of all, your math is off.  The first line of players you listed in bold is close to $39 million ($38.81 million).  With that they already have $4 million less than you are projecting for them.  With that, I do agree that if Seattle takes the prospect then they are screwed, but seeing how Vancouver acquired Nate Schmidt from Vegas for only a 3rd as they wanted to sign Pietrangelo, there's no way that we pay so much.  Also, it's the media that's projecting that TBL will go 4-4-1 but even if they go 7-3-1 and their big ticket guys are left, depending on the salary structure of their trades they could still bury one or more of them instead if they refuse to leave (and I'd be fairly confident that near-contenders would come knocking at the firesale that will be this sell-off).  The team could also keep Cernak and Cirelli off the table even if they don't want to move them or bundle assets to move the pricier vets.  It's not optimal but ultimately it's management's decision if they decide to sell these two studs in their early-20's, though I just don't see it being their first option if they protect them in the ED.        

My math could be wrong...let's see

 

Kucherov..........................9,500,000

Stamkos...........................8,500,000

Point.................................6,750,000

Palat.................................5,300,000

Gourde.............................5,166,666

Johnson...........................5,000,000

Cirelli................................4,800,000

Killorn...............................4,450,000

Hedman...........................7,875,000

McDonagh........................6,750,000

Sergachev........................4,800,000

Cernak.............................2,950,000

Vasilevskiy........................9,500,000

                                      --------------

13 players.......................81,341,666

plus

10 players @ 650,000 =... 6,500,000

 

Total budget "IF" they went minimum, which will never be = 87,841,666 or 6,341,666...........Best case scenario, but we know, they will not run with 10 players at 650,000 per, if they could even find them, sooooo, they are in a bit of trouble.

 

Realistically, they are $10,000,000 over, 

 

There assets are Cal Foote, a 2021-3rd, a 2022-1st (late), then in 2023, they have a full slate of picks, and no one really on the farm

 

Miller was 26 when he was traded for a 1st..............I am not sure, who would garner a 1st of their players they want to trade? Or equivalent asset?

[Bertuzzipunch]

They are so screwed….

[vannuck59]

14 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

They are so screwed….

yah but might have two cups

[Bertuzzipunch]

2 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

yah but might have two cups

Definitely worth it and will take the sting away a lil if they win it this year and tell the fans they have big changes coming.

[BCNate]

On 6/6/2021 at 5:14 PM, Bertuzzipunch said:

Question. If eriksson retires after the bonus what is the cap hit for the nucks?

Zero

[BCNate]

22 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

I agree burning a year of QH ELC was pretty dumb. Da hell were they thinking there  smh.

Burning off the ELC is going to be the best move we have made in years.  Signing QH after the year he just had is going to save us a ton of money.  If he bounces back next and plays like he did as rookie, his deal would cost far more.  I'm a huge fan of re signing these guys after their 2nd year as opposed to their 3rd.

[86Viking]

10 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Burning off the ELC is going to be the best move we have made in years.  Signing QH after the year he just had is going to save us a ton of money.  If he bounces back next and plays like he did as rookie, his deal would cost far more.  I'm a huge fan of re signing these guys after their 2nd year as opposed to their 3rd.

How so...he still has a great ppg average and I think he and or Petey were both going to sign short term deals regardless of how their seasons went. They are athletes with greed and have greedy agents who will tell them, sign for 2-3 years and wait till the cap rises then take your team to the cleaners on a long term deal.

 

At the end of the day, the players may say the real goal in playing hockey in the NHL is to win the Stanley Cup but in reality it is to bank as much $$$ as you can during your playing career. If you win a cup, you can cash in as a FA at an older age see Jay Beagle. If good players truly wanted to stay on their team and keep the core group together you wouldn't see the inflated contract right out of an ELC like we see in the NHL now, it is the new normal.

 

If the Canucks don't make a strong run to try and win a cup during these so called "cheaper" deals that Hughes and Petey sign, gonna be real hard pressed to do it with this same core, not saying it is impossible but in 2 years Captain Bo and JT Miller will need new deals and that same year or 1 year later Petey and Hughes will need new deals. Next summer Brock will need a new deal. So I find it hard to see us extending Bo and Miller to long term deals taking them into their mid 30s that will come with much higher cap hits, possible NMC/NTC etc. 

 

If the Canucks retain Bo and Miller, they might have to sacrifice upgrading the D or limit the cap room they may have to bring in bigger TDL acquisitions when we are hopefully perennial playoff contenders in the near future.

 

I would like to know what kind of cheaper contract you think Hughes is going to sign this off season with us?? It is going to be 2-3 years max, can't see the player signing 7-8 years right now when they could be leaving millions on the table once the cap goes up.

 

If I was GM I would offer Hughes the Sergachev contract, 4.9m or something. He likely would get insulted tho by it, but that is what I think he is worth at this given time myself. Or try to give him the 8x8 deal Chabot took, same goes for Petey...rather see that than him get the 7m x3yr that Barzal got that seems to be the compareable. Don't think he has done enough consistantly to demand that contract myself

[BCNate]

double post

Edited June 8, 2021 by BCNate

[BCNate]

19 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

How so...he still has a great ppg average and I think he and or Petey were both going to sign short term deals regardless of how their seasons went. They are athletes with greed and have greedy agents who will tell them, sign for 2-3 years and wait till the cap rises then take your team to the cleaners on a long term deal.

 

At the end of the day, the players may say the real goal in playing hockey in the NHL is to win the Stanley Cup but in reality it is to bank as much $$$ as you can during your playing career. If you win a cup, you can cash in as a FA at an older age see Jay Beagle. If good players truly wanted to stay on their team and keep the core group together you wouldn't see the inflated contract right out of an ELC like we see in the NHL now, it is the new normal.

 

If the Canucks don't make a strong run to try and win a cup during these so called "cheaper" deals that Hughes and Petey sign, gonna be real hard pressed to do it with this same core, not saying it is impossible but in 2 years Captain Bo and JT Miller will need new deals and that same year or 1 year later Petey and Hughes will need new deals. Next summer Brock will need a new deal. So I find it hard to see us extending Bo and Miller to long term deals taking them into their mid 30s that will come with much higher cap hits, possible NMC/NTC etc. 

 

If the Canucks retain Bo and Miller, they might have to sacrifice upgrading the D or limit the cap room they may have to bring in bigger TDL acquisitions when we are hopefully perennial playoff contenders in the near future.

 

I would like to know what kind of cheaper contract you think Hughes is going to sign this off season with us?? It is going to be 2-3 years max, can't see the player signing 7-8 years right now when they could be leaving millions on the table once the cap goes up.

 

If I was GM I would offer Hughes the Sergachev contract, 4.9m or something. He likely would get insulted tho by it, but that is what I think he is worth at this given time myself. Or try to give him the 8x8 deal Chabot took, same goes for Petey...rather see that than him get the 7m x3yr that Barzal got that seems to be the compareable. Don't think he has done enough consistantly to demand that contract myself

A few reasons why QH's deal will be lower than it would be next year:

- He is signing it in a flat cap.  Next year looks like fans will be allowed in most rinks, many at full capacity.  The NHL got an excellent new TV deal with TNT.  The cap will not be flat for long.  I'd assume that there will be talks of increasing it by the end of next year (not necessarily for the following year though).  As soon as a deal hits that increasing cap, salary demands will increase along with it.

-QH was very good offensively this year, but was exposed as one of the worst defensive D in the NHL.  I think the schedule, playing teams 9-10 times allowed them to key on him more.  That hurts his value on his next deal.  I do expect that he will rebound though.

 

Coming into this season, I fully expected that EP and QH would sign 3 year bridge deals in the 7-8 mill range based on their prior seasons.  I think based QH defensive play, he is now looking at 3x 6 max.  I expect that he will bounce back next year, and rebuild a fair amount of value, and would likely command much more, closer to that 3x8.

 

It is not unreasonable to say Hughes took a step back this year.  Signing a core young player coming off a down year is a good situation for a cap crunched team.  I am in no way implying that he does not have a very bright future though.

[BCNate]

17 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

My math could be wrong...let's see

 

Kucherov..........................9,500,000

Stamkos...........................8,500,000

Point.................................6,750,000

Palat.................................5,300,000

Gourde.............................5,166,666

Johnson...........................5,000,000

Cirelli................................4,800,000

Killorn...............................4,450,000

Hedman...........................7,875,000

McDonagh........................6,750,000

Sergachev........................4,800,000

Cernak.............................2,950,000

Vasilevskiy........................9,500,000

                                      --------------

13 players.......................81,341,666

plus

10 players @ 650,000 =... 6,500,000

 

Total budget "IF" they went minimum, which will never be = 87,841,666 or 6,341,666...........Best case scenario, but we know, they will not run with 10 players at 650,000 per, if they could even find them, sooooo, they are in a bit of trouble.

 

Realistically, they are $10,000,000 over, 

 

There assets are Cal Foote, a 2021-3rd, a 2022-1st (late), then in 2023, they have a full slate of picks, and no one really on the farm

 

Miller was 26 when he was traded for a 1st..............I am not sure, who would garner a 1st of their players they want to trade? Or equivalent asset?

-I assume McDonagh is exposed and Seattle take him.  That move makes too much sense for both teams

-Killorn can be moved pretty easily, especially if the ask on the return is small.

 

-I could also see Foote, or a 1st being attached to Tyler Johnson to move him out. 

Personally, I'd do a Foote+ TJ for Ferland and a late pick.  (I read somewhere that Ferland has value with his LTIR?  I don't understand that though). I could see TJ as a fit in our middle 6, and if bringing him in gets us Foote, I'd be down for sure.  Worst case, TJ busts with us, his buyout is reasonable, and you are still left with Foote.

[Bertuzzipunch]

3 minutes ago, BCNate said:

-I assume McDonagh is exposed and Seattle take him.  That move makes too much sense for both teams

-Killorn can be moved pretty easily, especially if the ask on the return is small.

 

-I could also see Foote, or a 1st being attached to Tyler Johnson to move him out. 

Personally, I'd do a Foote+ TJ for Ferland and a late pick.  (I read somewhere that Ferland has value with his LTIR?  I don't understand that though). I could see TJ as a fit in our middle 6, and if bringing him in gets us Foote, I'd be down for sure.  Worst case, TJ busts with us, his buyout is reasonable, and you are still left with Foote.

I dunno how mcdonough would be a good fit for seattle. Why would they want a player over 30 with such a big contract with so much left on it. He also has a NTC I believe 

[BCNate]

31 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

I dunno how mcdonough would be a good fit for seattle. Why would they want a player over 30 with such a big contract with so much left on it. He also has a NTC I believe 

He is a legit to pairing defensive D. He is signed at 6.75 for 5 more years, but I'd expect he will be an excellent D for at least 3 or 4 of them.  NTC clause offers no ED protection.

For an Expansion team to start with a true top pair D? I'd be surprised to see them turn down that opportunity.

[Bertuzzipunch]

21 minutes ago, BCNate said:

He is a legit to pairing defensive D. He is signed at 6.75 for 5 more years, but I'd expect he will be an excellent D for at least 3 or 4 of them.  NTC clause offers no ED protection.

For an Expansion team to start with a true top pair D? I'd be surprised to see them turn down that opportunity.

Maybe but still seems too steep for me. 

[86Viking]

3 hours ago, BCNate said:

A few reasons why QH's deal will be lower than it would be next year:

- He is signing it in a flat cap. 

 

Flat cap could be till 2025...that was a rumour that had some legs anyway. I don't see if lasting that long myself, considering the pandemic is over the States right now and they got jammed pack arena's making the Billionaire owners millions again. Canada will have fans in to some degree to start the season so maybe 2 more years of a flat cap is my guess max 3 years.

 

Time will tell, but it sounds like you think Hughes is signing for under 6m...hope your right tho!

Edited June 8, 2021 by Canuckster86