[proposal] Vancouver Canucks - Buffalo Sabres:

[Patel Bure]

[proposal] Vancouver Canucks - Buffalo Sabres:   
 

To Buffalo:   2021 1st + Jack Rathbone 

 

To Vancouver:  Dylan Cozens + Mattias Samuelson 

 

Why Buffalo does this:

 

-Get some good young long term pieces in Rathbone and the 2021 1st

 

Why the Canucks do this:

 

-They get increase their long term depth down the middle with Dylan Cozens; a young gritty two way center that can take on tough defensive match-ups.

 

-They get a good young defenseman that specializes on the defensive side of things and is big and physical.  Maybe this guy becomes our future long term Edler replacement.

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoglander

Roussel-Cozens-Podkolzin

Motte-Beagle-Highmore 

 

Lind

 

Hughes-Myers

Edler-Schmidt

Samuelson-Hamonic

 

Juolevi

 

Demko

Holtby

 

-Re-sign Edler for a year

-Sutter, Baertschi, Virtanen buyout, Edler cap reduction, plus Eriksson minors go towards Pettersson and Hughes.  
 

ps - I don’t think Buffalo would accept this deal.  My original proposal was for us to add Eriksson and Roussel to this deal with the expectation that we’d take on Skinner’s contract, but the numbers wouldn’t add up long term for Vancouver, and taking on JS’s cap would be too risky.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Bertuzzipunch]

Id do that without them throwing in samuelson lol. Cozens is gonna be a hell of a player.

[mll]

Sounds like Buffalo are looking to build around Cozens and Dahlin.     

 

Cozens was a 7th overall and is only 20.  There's no guarantee that they can pick a player of that calibre at 9th overall.  It was a difficult season to scout.  Buffalo has also fired a large portion of their scouting staff.

 

Cozens also wants to be there which probably has even more value to Buffalo given how they have players that want out.  Kevyn Adams talks of how they are going to build around players that want to be there. 

 

Adams talks of how they have had good players but have never managed to build a team where everyone is pulling on the same rope for something bigger than them.   If he starts treating players like chess pieces, he's never going to be able to change that culture.

 

[Patel Bure]

4 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Id do that without them throwing in samuelson lol. Cozens is gonna be a hell of a player.

@mll,

 

Good thoughts guys,

 

In this case, I’m wondering if my original idea would work, in that, they throw in Jeff Skinner while we add Eriksson and Roussel.   That way, we take on the massive risk of Skinner’s contract while they’d be free of dead cap space after next season.   
 

To Buffalo:  Eriksson + Roussel + 2021 1st + Rathbone

 

To Vancouver:  Skinner + Cozens + Samuelson

 

Miller-Pettersson-Skinner

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser 

Pearson-Cozens-Podkolzin 

Motte-Beagle-Highmore

 

Hughes-Myers

Edler-Schmidt 

Samuelson-Hamonic 

 

Demko

Holtby

 

-Skinner put on top line in order to make him “feel at home” right away, while giving him all the opportunity in the world to rediscover his game.

 

-Virtanen buyout money added towards Hamonic

 

-Sutter + Baertschi  + Edler reduce cap + Eriksson minors + ??? = money towards Pettersson and Hughes bridge extension (7 million cap hit each, “the Matt Barzal”)

 

-2022 summer:   Holtby + Beagle + Luongo cap penalty + Edler money = apply to bring in a new defenseman and upgrade defense + extend any RFA’s.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt my above plan would work long term cap wise if we brought in Skinner (ie I don’t think we would be able to re-sign Horvat and Miller or bring in suitable replacements when their contracts expire) but I’m not 100% sure.

 

 

[mll]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

@mll,

 

Good thoughts guys,

 

In this case, I’m wondering if my original idea would work, in that, they throw in Jeff Skinner while we add Eriksson and Roussel.   That way, we take on the massive risk of Skinner’s contract while they’d be free of dead cap space after next season.   
 

To Buffalo:  Eriksson + Roussel + 2021 1st + Rathbone

 

To Vancouver:  Skinner + Cozens + Samuelson

 

Miller-Pettersson-Skinner

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser 

Pearson-Cozens-Podkolzin 

Motte-Beagle-Highmore

 

Hughes-Myers

Edler-Schmidt 

Samuelson-Hamonic 

 

Demko

Holtby

 

-Skinner put on top line in order to make him “feel at home” right away, while giving him all the opportunity in the world to rediscover his game.

 

-Virtanen buyout money added towards Hamonic

 

-Sutter + Baertschi  + Edler reduce cap + Eriksson minors + ??? = money towards Pettersson and Hughes bridge extension (7 million cap hit each, “the Matt Barzal”)

 

-2022 summer:   Holtby + Beagle + Luongo cap penalty + Edler money = apply to bring in a new defenseman and upgrade defense + extend any RFA’s.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt my above plan would work long term cap wise if we brought in Skinner (ie I don’t think we would be able to re-sign Horvat and Miller or bring in suitable replacements when their contracts expire) but I’m not 100% sure.

 

 

 

I think Buffalo prefers biting the bullet on Skinner than giving up Cozens.  They are looking to move players who don't want to be there - that could well include Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen.  They'll have some cap space and can afford to keep Skinner.  He actually wants to be there and they can hope for a rebound with a better usage - new coach, new opportunity.

 

I don't think you will manage to pry Cozens away from them.  They are considering moving Eichel and there's no guarantee they can get a C in return - Cozens is pretty much earmarked to help fill the void Eichel and Reinhart are going to create if traded.  

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by mll

[BPA]

Read in a rumor blog that BUF will probably trade Eichel as there are "trust issues".  And let his neck issues be some other teams problem. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

Would do this deal in a second but like others have said, cant see buffalo parting with Cozens without an overpayment. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, mll said:

Sounds like Buffalo are looking to build around Cozens and Dahlin.     

well, what choice to they have really? they've mismanaged things to the point where a franchise player wants out, along with other key pieces like Reinhart. Its a disaster.

 

That stupid grin on the Sabres GMs face was too much when they got 1st oa again. No team should keep getting rewarded with talent like this just because they are run so badly. 

 

I feel bad for Power. There's no reason to expect Buffalo not to make a mess of things yet again. 

 

2 hours ago, mll said:

 

Cozens was a 7th overall and is only 20.  There's no guarantee that they can pick a player of that calibre at 9th overall.  It was a difficult season to scout.  Buffalo has also fired a large portion of their scouting staff.

 

Cozens also wants to be there which probably has even more value to Buffalo given how they have players that want out.  Kevyn Adams talks of how they are going to build around players that want to be there. 

 

Adams talks of how they have had good players but have never managed to build a team where everyone is pulling on the same rope for something bigger than them.   If he starts treating players like chess pieces, he's never going to be able to change that culture.

 

Cozens is saying what he needs to right now, we don't really know what he's going to want to do when his deal comes up. I'd lay even odds on him holding out. 

[mll]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well, what choice to they have really? they've mismanaged things to the point where a franchise player wants out, along with other key pieces like Reinhart. Its a disaster.

 

That stupid grin on the Sabres GMs face was too much when they got 1st oa again. No team should keep getting rewarded with talent like this just because they are run so badly. 

 

I feel bad for Power. There's no reason to expect Buffalo not to make a mess of things yet again. 

 

Cozens is saying what he needs to right now, we don't really know what he's going to want to do when his deal comes up. I'd lay even odds on him holding out. 

 

The Pegulas explained that they trust Kevyn Adams - they know him and have worked with him for years.  They talk of how he will involve them.  It sounds like they did not fully trust the former GMs and that can hardly ever work.  Having someone in charge that they trust should allow to clean things up.  Adams should be able to be honest with them without being scared for his job.  

 

He has no GM experience but they recently hired Jason Karmanos as associate GM - sounds like a good move given his experience.   It feels like they finally understood that they can't continue what they've been doing and need to start new even if it's going to take time.

 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, mll said:

 

The Pegulas explained that they trust Kevyn Adams - they know him and have worked with him for years.  They talk of how he will involve them.  It sounds like they did not fully trust the former GMs and that can hardly ever work.  Having someone in charge that they trust should allow to clean things up.  Adams should be able to be honest with them without being scared for his job.  

 

He has no GM experience but they recently hired Jason Karmanos as associate GM - sounds like a good move given his experience.   It feels like they finally understood that they can't continue what they've been doing and need to start new even if it's going to take time.

 

I appreciate the level of detail you bring on this stuff, mll, I really do. But right now, I can't tell this from truth or spin. Players, GMs, owners, all play the spin game to more or less degree. 

 

So we'll see where this lands. Right now with the same owners I'm pretty suspicious of real change happening there. I hope for the young players sake this is all true. 

[Gurn]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

 It sounds like they did not fully trust the former GMs and that can hardly ever work.

Why did they hire people they didn't fully trust?

 

14 minutes ago, mll said:

He has no GM experience

If hiring J.B. as a rookie G.M. was stupid, then so is this.

I expect to see multiple posters call this hiring out as stupid or be seen as hypocrits.

Buffalo has been bush league for so long it will take 3 years of progress before I'd start thinking" Hey, they are, turning it around"

[mll]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I appreciate the level of detail you bring on this stuff, mll, I really do. But right now, I can't tell this from truth or spin. Players, GMs, owners, all play the spin game to more or less degree. 

 

So we'll see where this lands. Right now with the same owners I'm pretty suspicious of real change happening there. I hope for the young players sake this is all true. 

 

True.  If they fail again then they are hopeless.  You just hope for their sake that this time they'll get it right.

 

 

[mll]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Why did they hire people they didn't fully trust?

 

If hiring J.B. as a rookie G.M. was stupid, then so is this.

I expect to see multiple posters call this hiring out as stupid or be seen as hypocrits.

Buffalo has been bush league for so long it will take 3 years of progress before I'd start thinking" Hey, they are, turning it around"

They hired Jason Karmanos as associate GM.  Here's a brief overview of his credentials.

 

[Patel Bure]

Thank you for the response guys,

 

By the sounds of things, our best bet might be in just trying to focus on Samuelson as far as this proposal goes.   
 

Would giving up one of our 1st or Rathbone justify bringing in Samuelson?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Thank you for the response guys,

 

By the sounds of things, our best bet might be in just trying to focus on Samuelson as far as this proposal goes.   
 

Would giving up one of our 1st or Rathbone justify bringing in Samuelson?

Nope.  Especially not The Bone.  The game is super fast now, and he’s got the skills to play at a very high tempo.  Bone is a keeper.  

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nope.  Especially not The Bone.  The game is super fast now, and he’s got the skills to play at a very high tempo.  Bone is a keeper.  

we know who other GMs will be asking for: Rathone, Hoglander, Boeser, Miller - guys we can't afford to lose. 

 

I know Jim has said he wants to be aggressive, but the more trade ideas I see the more I think we'll see one or two buyouts and thats it for this season. We have to wait out one more year of crap contracts and then we have a lot of cap to play with. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Rathbone is going to be a stud.  His partner at Harvard Fox is already a Norris trophy candidate.  I believe Rathbone will follow in the same footsteps.  At the end of the day he may well become a more well rounded defenceman than Quinn Hughes.  He should be on the untouchable list with Petey, Hughes, Demko, Podkolzin and Hoglander.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Elias Pettersson

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Rathbone is going to be a stud.  His partner at Harvard Fox is already a Norris trophy candidate.  I believe Rathbone will follow in the same footsteps.  At the end of the day he may well become a more well rounded defenceman than Quinn Hughes.  He should be on the untouchable list with Petey, Hughes, Demko, Podkolzin and Hoglander.

Good to know.

 

I think one mistake I keep making with Rathbone is that I keep seeing him as “Hughes lite” (ie a very good and fast PMD that struggles in his own end).  It’s become a “fossilized mis-analysis” on my part because I think people have told me this before but it never registered deeply in me.

 

I never pegged Rathbone as being an Edler replacement in terms of being that two way all situation dman that could take on tough match ups but if he could be that guy for us, then by all means, he’s untouchable.  
 

ps - I came into this thread with the idea of “hypothesizing” the following deal:

 

Pettersson, Juolevi, 2021 1st for

Reinhart, Cozens, Samuelson, and Buffalo’s 2021 1st.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Good to know.

 

I think one mistake I keep making with Rathbone is that I keep seeing him as “Hughes lite” (ie a very good and fast PMD that struggles in his own end).  It’s become a “fossilized mis-analysis” on my part because I think people have told me this before but it never registered deeply in me.

 

I never pegged Rathbone as being an Edler replacement in terms of being that two way all situation dman that could take on tough match ups but if he could be that guy for us, then by all means, he’s untouchable.  
 

ps - I came into this thread with the idea of “hypothesizing” the following deal:

 

Pettersson, Juolevi, 2021 1st for

Reinhart, Cozens, Samuelson, and Buffalo’s 2021 1st.

You wanna trade me for those bums?  

[Nurnge]

Pettersson is going nowhere or Roger Area will be as empty next year as it is now !!!