canuck73_3 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 hours ago, tas said: I agree with this principle except when it involves taking a goalie in the top half of the first round. it's too easy to find them in later rounds and their trade value is always too low because there's always a dozen serviceable goalies on the market. We’re not going to hit a Top 2 dman or Top 6 forward but it would be trading an expendable piece for a depth piece in a position of need. Could be a homerun Higgins type trade for a needed depth piece without disrupting affecting the team in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: We’re not going to hit a Top 2 dman or Top 6 forward but it would be trading an expendable piece for a depth piece in a position of need. Could be a homerun Higgins type trade for a needed depth piece without disrupting affecting the team in the short term. i dont see that as a better option than drafting a different player in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, tas said: i dont see that as a better option than drafting a different player in the first place. A better player than the Best Player Available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: A better player than the Best Player Available? ... a better player than you're going to acquire by trading that best player available 5 years later, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Did Clark talk about any details of the goaltending department? What would that look like? Is it just more cohesion between the Canucks and their farm team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 4petesake Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Did Clark talk about any details of the goaltending department? What would that look like? Is it just more cohesion between the Canucks and their farm team? A little bit here. 2 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthycanuck Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 21 hours ago, spook007 said: Good take… Ya, Shane Obrien spoke very very glowingly of Shaw who coached him in Cincinnati. We'll see if that translates for next season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 7 hours ago, Sean Monahan said: Well, I think I was the first one to mention Woodley’s comments re: Clark in this topic which was also (I believe) the first time I’ve mentioned Woodley in any topic. I don’t think we’ve seen any of the people who may have criticized Woodley in the past now using his words to prop up Benning. I have previously mentioned Friedman’s words on Clark (things he said during an intermission a couple weeks ago). The gist of what he said re: Clark was that Clark was his own guy who marches to the beat of his own drum. Said Clark was well aware of how sought after he’d be and that if he left it would be because it’s what he wanted to do (from memory). At the end of the day I think there’s just way more griping about this particular news bit than there needs to be or really should be. I know there’s some information on the topic that I haven’t read but I think Benning was probably over the moon to sign Clark for 5 years. And a certain somebody being the objective one on these boards? The guy who said the Toffoli trade was worse than the Sergachev trade? There’s legitimate criticisms to be made of the Toffoli trade but cmon. I didnt say the Toffoli trade was worse than the Sergachev trade. If they had re-signedToffoli the trade would have been fine. But unfortunately the trade doesnt live in that world of no other context to consider. I said the end result of the cost of the original trade added to letting him walk for nothing was worse. Because as bad as the Sergachev trade was the habs did at least have someone playing on their roster more than a handful of games at the end of the day. The Canucks ended up with nothing longer term to help the roster while giving up 2 solid assets. Thats worse than a bad hockey trade all day every day, especially for a rebuilding team. I find it interesting that regarding Clark, Sid said essentially the same things I did. Most of you agreed with him, even the ones who flamed me for saying the same things, because he is widely (and rightfully) seen as a smart, insightful, objective poster and is completely worthy of that respect. But it also shows its more the messenger you object to, not actually the message. I guess I dont see the need to prove anyone else wrong as a personal thing. If I disagree with your opinion, I say so. I dont disagree with one person who says it and agree with another who says the same thing. Seeing that here made me laugh. Question my credibility all you want, but many of you just torpedoed your own credibility a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 7 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said: Good. Lets see if he keeps up his 40-45 goal seasons for the next 3 years. i want young players on this team not 30+ yr olds I dont care if they have some 30+ year olds as long as they are the right ones who can actually move the needle for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: It’s called trading for a rental. Teams do it every year. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. The goal is to make the playoffs and win a few rounds and have a chance at a Cup. That’s the objective in the NHL. Not to collect draft picks and prospects every year and miss the playoffs. At some point you have to take a shot. That’s what Benning did. If Toffoli was not injured in the playoffs maybe we beat Vegas and go to the semi final. That was the plan. You can argue the merits of trading for a rental when you are not a Stanley Cup contender but that’s what Benning did. Bergevin make a hockey trade. Gave up on a young stud defenceman to get his next French superstar. It backfired on him big time and the trade ended up being one of the worst in NHL history. Exactly my point. Trading for a rental was a huge waste of assets. At some point you have to take a shot with a rental? Not where the Canucks were at you don't. They werent a true cup contender with or without Toffoli. Had they kept him then sure its a decent move to improve the top 6 going forward. But Benning thinking the team was a Toffoli away from being a cup contender might be the biggest mistake he has ever made. Did you watch the Vegas series? Demko won 3 games by himself. The Canucks were utterly dominated. It wasnt a close series. They just received unsustainable god like goaltending while being dominated. Toffoli, Madden, and a 2nd for nothing is a bigger waste of assets than even a terrible hockey trade like the Sergachev one was. Using those assets for a longer term fit with Toffoli would have been a reasonable trade. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post -DLC- Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 7 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Exactly my point. Trading for a rental was a huge waste of assets. At some point you have to take a shot with a rental? Not where the Canucks were at you don't. They werent a true cup contender with or without Toffoli. Had they kept him then sure its a decent move to improve the top 6 going forward. But Benning thinking the team was a Toffoli away from being a cup contender might be the biggest mistake he has ever made. Did you watch the Vegas series? Demko won 3 games by himself. The Canucks were utterly dominated. It wasnt a close series. They just received unsustainable god like goaltending while being dominated. We had a chance to beat Vegas....doesn't matter how, just matters that they did put themselves in the position to. So yes, it is worth taking a shot. Besides, up until the final game that could have had the team win the series, goals were 16-14 for Vegas. Demko didn't score ours, the players did. I'm really tired of people discounting what they DID do to make a point about what they didn't. I wonder if Avs fans will do that? Treat the team like total trash because "they didn't". It's not as easy as people think. Most teams that do well in the playoffs HAVE to get great goaltending, that doesn't just apply to the Canucks. How do you think the Habs would do without Price? Vegas could be in a different position if Fleury wasn't playing lights out (by the way, the Avs outshot them last game 33-23). Being utterly dominated in a game doesn't always WIN the game...for many teams, goaltenders DO make the difference. Vegas does that (tries to steamroll all teams)...but they wear down. Some games they look totally flat. Look what happened AFTER the Demko deal...they fell flat on their face for awhile and lost the next series despite being "dominant". They're not superhumans...that kind of game takes a toll and is hard to sustain. I feel like you're the one underestimating how far a team can go with goaltending and some momentum on their side. The Vegas "series" vs the Canucks didn't win them the cup last year either. They were fairly depleted. And it WAS a close series because it went 7 games....despite the details. 5 3 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Exactly my point. Trading for a rental was a huge waste of assets. At some point you have to take a shot with a rental? Not where the Canucks were at you don't. They werent a true cup contender with or without Toffoli. Had they kept him then sure its a decent move to improve the top 6 going forward. But Benning thinking the team was a Toffoli away from being a cup contender might be the biggest mistake he has ever made. Did you watch the Vegas series? Demko won 3 games by himself. The Canucks were utterly dominated. It wasnt a close series. They just received unsustainable god like goaltending while being dominated. Toffoli, Madden, and a 2nd for nothing is a bigger waste of assets than even a terrible hockey trade like the Sergachev one was. Using those assets for a longer term fit with Toffoli would have been a reasonable trade. How many young cores win the cup without previous playoff experience, which (of course) will be losing? Madden and a second was well worth Tofu, and the playoff experience (taste of what it takes to win playoff hockey) that came in the bubble. 4 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket1994 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Exactly my point. Trading for a rental was a huge waste of assets. At some point you have to take a shot with a rental? Not where the Canucks were at you don't. They werent a true cup contender with or without Toffoli. Had they kept him then sure its a decent move to improve the top 6 going forward. But Benning thinking the team was a Toffoli away from being a cup contender might be the biggest mistake he has ever made. Did you watch the Vegas series? Demko won 3 games by himself. The Canucks were utterly dominated. It wasnt a close series. They just received unsustainable god like goaltending while being dominated. Toffoli, Madden, and a 2nd for nothing is a bigger waste of assets than even a terrible hockey trade like the Sergachev one was. Using those assets for a longer term fit with Toffoli would have been a reasonable trade. First: As usual, you're just spewing garbage to support your agenda! Second: You need to find other things to do...you're on here non stop pounding into the ground your agenda! And pretty much everyone knows what that is. It's going to be a nice summer after a long pandemic, maybe go get some sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 5 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Exactly my point. Trading for a rental was a huge waste of assets. At some point you have to take a shot with a rental? Not where the Canucks were at you don't. They werent a true cup contender with or without Toffoli. Had they kept him then sure its a decent move to improve the top 6 going forward. But Benning thinking the team was a Toffoli away from being a cup contender might be the biggest mistake he has ever made. Did you watch the Vegas series? Demko won 3 games by himself. The Canucks were utterly dominated. It wasnt a close series. They just received unsustainable god like goaltending while being dominated. Toffoli, Madden, and a 2nd for nothing is a bigger waste of assets than even a terrible hockey trade like the Sergachev one was. Using those assets for a longer term fit with Toffoli would have been a reasonable trade. So wins don't count if you have a good goalie? Tell that to 90% of the teams who have won the Cup 6 3 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 17 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: What is it they say? If you don’t think it’s a cult, you’re probably in the cult. I don’t mean you, Jimmy. There are just some posts and threads where things sometimes start to feel a bit culty to me. And just for fun, I had a look at this article: https://blog.usejournal.com/10-signs-youre-probably-in-a-cult-1921eb5a3857 I’d say CDC hits on around 7/10, at least when it comes to some of the pro-Benning crowd. (All in fun, guys. I don’t begrudge anyone for their unwavering faith in Benning. I kind of envy it, much the same way I sometimes envy religious faith. It’s not my bag, but to each their own. Just so long as we all keep it civil, there’s room for haters, lovers, and everything in between. ) Sure there are a few really hard core Benning Bro's. But I think most people are somewhere in the middle, love the picks and not thrilled about the cap. I think this is Jim's last year to show some big improvement but we'll see. I do think this Clark thing is pretty funny tho. Its a clear win for the organization, but people have to nit pick the process. He "almost" didn't sign. I used to have a prof that said "can you be almost pregnant?" What matters is it got done, not what almost didn't. Clearly that "deadline" of Clarks wasn't really one and whatever was really going on behind the scenes allowed for some flexibility. So to have a person go on and on about how Jim made a gaffe on whats clearly a big win is pretty funny to me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 17 hours ago, SilentSam said: 0n the topic of staff changes, I was Just wondering how Leafs fans feel after Shanahan moved Lou Lamoriello out a few years back. I think Lou is still ahead of the game as it develops, seems others , like the Leafs, just wannabe Good to see you back Sam. Lots of finger pointing in Lafferville these days. You gotta enjoy it. Lou has a solid record. That said I didn’t think he was enjoying his time in TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 13 hours ago, tas said: ... a better player than you're going to acquire by trading that best player available 5 years later, yes. Zach Senyshyn says hi. Also there is two other players up for trade in the scenario and Wallstedt is more than likely the keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: We had a chance to beat Vegas....doesn't matter how, just matters that they did put themselves in the position to. So yes, it is worth taking a shot. Besides, up until the final game that could have had the team win the series, goals were 16-14 for Vegas. Demko didn't score ours, the players did. I'm really tired of people discounting what they DID do to make a point about what they didn't. I wonder if Avs fans will do that? Treat the team like total trash because "they didn't". It's not as easy as people think. Most teams that do well in the playoffs HAVE to get great goaltending, that doesn't just apply to the Canucks. How do you think the Habs would do without Price? Vegas could be in a different position if Fleury wasn't playing lights out (by the way, the Avs outshot them last game 33-23). Being utterly dominated in a game doesn't always WIN the game...for many teams, goaltenders DO make the difference. Vegas does that (tries to steamroll all teams)...but they wear down. Some games they look totally flat. Look what happened AFTER the Demko deal...they fell flat on their face for awhile and lost the next series despite being "dominant". They're not superhumans...that kind of game takes a toll and is hard to sustain. I feel like you're the one underestimating how far a team can go with goaltending and some momentum on their side. The Vegas "series" didn't win Vegas the cup last year either. They were fairly depleted. And it WAS a close series because it went 7 games....despite the details. Yeah but Demko is our goalie and we all know having a good goalie negates any team success. /sarcasm 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Alflives said: How many young cores win the cup without previous playoff experience, which (of course) will be losing? Madden and a second was well worth Tofu, and the playoff experience (taste of what it takes to win playoff hockey) that came in the bubble. Alfie, I think you may be missing the point Wallstreet was making. Madden and a second was worth Toffoli if TT was extended, but then we didn't even offer TT an extension. So, we gave up TT, Madden and a second and that was poor asset management. JB has given three different reasons for losing TT over time. Bottom line is he was so focused on getting OEL he dropped the ball with TT. Yes, time to move on from this mistake and I expect next year to be much better with a healthy Pete, Podz, and whatever trades JB makes this summer. Looking forward to getting an impact player at #9 as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Alflives said: How many young cores win the cup without previous playoff experience, which (of course) will be losing? Madden and a second was well worth Tofu, and the playoff experience (taste of what it takes to win playoff hockey) that came in the bubble. that seems to be the big divide in the argument...Some people think playoff experience isn't worth it. So the debate is over before it begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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