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15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Infringing upon the accused rights, especially to a fair trial. 

they'll be sure to weed out any potential jurors that have cdc accounts ...

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56 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Answer the question Patel. I have provided numerous links, reports, statics both globally and from the Canadian government that all lead the to conclusion that we must take these alligations very seriously. Answer why you "truely believe he has been wronged". I want to know the reasoning behind why you believe that so whole heartedly.

 

Further more, I have never once stated that Virtanen is guilty. I have only replied to people saying that he is innocent with facts regarding sexual assult cases. I haven't stated an opinion one time this entire thread. Only cold hard facts around the subject.

 

You have stated your opinion on him being innocent. So @Patel Bureanswer the question.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nsnews.com/amp/bc-news/canucks-jake-virtanen-named-in-civil-suit-alleging-sexual-misconduct-3777501
 

1) Jake Virtanen and this girl mutually agreed to meet in Jake’s hotel room.   So, either this girl is VERY naive as to the underlying implications of what it means to “agree to meet someone in someone’s hotel room,” or, she had a change of heart upon arriving at the hotel room (which is perfectly normal and perfectly acceptable, which leads me to point #2).   
 

2) Jake Virtanen kissed her neck from behind and startled the girl.  She told him to back off. Although Jake, from the story, appeared to have wanted to go further, he did NOT appear to initiate more physical contact.  Period.  
 

Although this story does not mention this, I also read/heard from somewhere that this girl stayed over night in the same hotel room as Jake, but stayed in another section of the room.........and so despite the incident from earlier, still felt comfortable staying over night.

 

So, to review:

 

1) Two the consenting adults agreed to meet in a hotel room prior to the meeting, to which Jake picked her up and drove her.

 

2) With the obvious implications that a hotel room “meeting” entails, Jake wanted to get intimate with her, to which she declined his advances and expressed her discomfort.   
 

3) After possibly pleading with the woman, Jake stopped.  No other physical contact took place, no RAPE took place (the most important thing), and the woman apparently stayed overnight in the same room as Jake in a different part of the hotel room (the story above does not mention this, but this is something that I heard/read somewhere......will try and provide the link if I find it).

 

The incident took place in 2017, four years ago.   
 

The most important thing here is that no rape took place.  I don’t doubt that Jake may have kissed her for a second too long, and may have tried to sell the woman on the idea of not changing her mind about having sex, but NONE of this warrants having Jake’s reputation being completely ruined and/or him losing his career.   
 

Based on this evidence, I think it would set a very dangerous precedent if Jake was charged with attempted rape or sexual assault in this instance, and based on this, I would strongly discourage anyone from attempting to meet women at a bar.

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34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we'll get a social media mob regardless. Just glad there isn't a swipe option for guilty or innocent. 

 

I do wonder how deep the Canucks are investigating things, if they are going beyond just this one incident. 

Why does it feel like this is the direction society is headed?

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2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nsnews.com/amp/bc-news/canucks-jake-virtanen-named-in-civil-suit-alleging-sexual-misconduct-3777501
 

1) Jake Virtanen and this girl mutually agreed to meet in Jake’s hotel room.   So, either this girl is VERY naive as to the underlying implications of what it means to “agree to meet someone in someone’s hotel room,” or, she had a change of heart upon arriving at the hotel room (which is perfectly normal and perfectly acceptable, which leads me to point #2).   
 

2) Jake Virtanen kissed her neck from behind and startled the girl.  She told him to back off. Although Jake, from the story, appeared to have wanted to go further, he did NOT appear to initiate more physical contact.  Period.  
 

Although this story does not mention this, I also read/heard from somewhere that this girl stayed over night in the same hotel room as Jake, but stayed in another section of the room.........and so despite the incident from earlier, still felt comfortable staying over night.

 

So, to review:

 

1) Two the consenting adults agreed to meet in a hotel room prior to the meeting, to which Jake picked her up and drove her.

 

2) With the obvious implications that a hotel room “meeting” entails, Jake wanted to get intimate with her, to which she declined his advances and expressed her discomfort.   
 

3) After possibly pleading with the woman, Jake stopped.  No other physical contact took place, no RAPE took place (the most important thing), and the woman apparently stayed overnight in the same room as Jake in a different part of the hotel room (the story above does not mention this, but this is something that I heard/read somewhere......will try and provide the link if I find it).

 

The incident took place in 2017, four years ago.   
 

The most important thing here is that no rape took place.  I don’t doubt that Jake may have kissed her for a second too long, and may have tried to sell the woman on the idea of not changing her mind about having sex, but NONE of this warrants having Jake’s reputation being completely ruined and/or him losing his career.   
 

Based on this evidence, I think it would set a very dangerous precedent if Jake was charged with attempted rape or sexual assault in this instance, and based on this, I would strongly discourage anyone from attempting to meet women at a bar.

Well you already have the information wrong.

 

"appeared to have wanted to go further, he did NOT appear to initiate more physical contact.  Period"

 

"After possibly pleading with the woman, Jake stopped.  No other physical contact took place"

 

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/vancouver-canucks-jake-virtanen-denies-sexual-assault-allegations

 

 

Your entire reasoning was based off he stopped and they didn't go any further. While Jake himself says they did.

 

Edited by shayster007
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22 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nsnews.com/amp/bc-news/canucks-jake-virtanen-named-in-civil-suit-alleging-sexual-misconduct-3777501
 

1) Jake Virtanen and this girl mutually agreed to meet in Jake’s hotel room.   So, either this girl is VERY naive as to the underlying implications of what it means to “agree to meet someone in someone’s hotel room,” or, she had a change of heart upon arriving at the hotel room (which is perfectly normal and perfectly acceptable, which leads me to point #2).   
 

2) Jake Virtanen kissed her neck from behind and startled the girl.  She told him to back off. Although Jake, from the story, appeared to have wanted to go further, he did NOT appear to initiate more physical contact.  Period.  
 

Although this story does not mention this, I also read/heard from somewhere that this girl stayed over night in the same hotel room as Jake, but stayed in another section of the room.........and so despite the incident from earlier, still felt comfortable staying over night.

 

So, to review:

 

1) Two the consenting adults agreed to meet in a hotel room prior to the meeting, to which Jake picked her up and drove her.

 

2) With the obvious implications that a hotel room “meeting” entails, Jake wanted to get intimate with her, to which she declined his advances and expressed her discomfort.   
 

3) After possibly pleading with the woman, Jake stopped.  No other physical contact took place, no RAPE took place (the most important thing), and the woman apparently stayed overnight in the same room as Jake in a different part of the hotel room (the story above does not mention this, but this is something that I heard/read somewhere......will try and provide the link if I find it).

 

The incident took place in 2017, four years ago.   
 

The most important thing here is that no rape took place.  I don’t doubt that Jake may have kissed her for a second too long, and may have tried to sell the woman on the idea of not changing her mind about having sex, but NONE of this warrants having Jake’s reputation being completely ruined and/or him losing his career.   
 

Based on this evidence, I think it would set a very dangerous precedent if Jake was charged with attempted rape or sexual assault in this instance, and based on this, I would strongly discourage anyone from attempting to meet women at a bar.

According to her going to the hotel

was a surprise I thought?


safe to say we don’t have all the information. You don’t know what happened, you don’t know what the girl tried to do with this during the past 4 years or how difficult it was.

 

she was incredibly young as well. There’s a discussion to be had on Jake being a predator as I’ve seen it first hand with family members gfs being relentlessly pursues by him digitally and in person. 


At the end of the day I agree years later accusations like this down the road are terrifying for men but at the same time women are taken advantage of, forced, pressured, morning raped, etc with great regularity. Anyone who says otherwise does not have close relationships with women to understand.

 

jakes character in general has been sus throughout his young career and even his dedication / discipline to coming to camp in shape is concerning.

 

I personally want him gone regardless If this Is 100% true or not. Safe to say something occurred that was borderline and this case from what I’ve read seen, know of Jake and of people like Jake I’m going to side with the girl.

 

was it naive on her part sure, but she was a naive girl borderline underage and let this be a warning to all pro athletes to be extra careful and mindful in their relationships.

 

hell I remember seeing Kesler be an absolute predator at the roxy. Just assumed every girl wanted him. Should have seen the texts he was sending to my friend after when she didn’t care who he was and didn’t go him with him.

 

i also don’t understand how you can claim all knowing that no rape took place. And I take it you personally don’t have any loved ones, friends or even know anyone who has been sexually abused. 

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When/If Jake the Ripper is convicted of rape, do you think he'll be transferred out of province to serve his prison sentence, or do you think they'll still Lock Him Up in the Abby/Matsqui federal penitentiary - knowing he might know a lot of people in there - being from the area?

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I wonder if those proclaiming JV innocence are also those proclaiming Trump's innocence (yeah...had to include Trump :P).  Kinda similar situations except that after the 1st women came out, so did a whole lot of others.

 

Anyways...I will keep an open mind and hopefully not pre-judge JV too harshly.  I have a young daughter and kind of skews my position in this matter.

 

Here's a true story from my friend during high school (17yrs old) years.  He was with his girlfriend at the time and pinned her on her bed.  She didn't scream or holler but just cried and looked away.  Thankfully he stopped and the relationship ended.  So just think about that for a minute.  Not every girl has the fortitude to kick and scream and fight to the death.  They were in a relationship but obviously the girl was not ready for sex.  So was she naive for having him in her bedroom?  Probably some heavy makeout session was all she wanted but not sex.

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32 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

When/If Jake the Ripper is convicted of rape, do you think he'll be transferred out of province to serve his prison sentence, or do you think they'll still Lock Him Up in the Abby/Matsqui federal penitentiary - knowing he might know a lot of people in there - being from the area?

Weak attempt at humour? I would refrain dude, this is a pretty serious matter. Hopefully “Justice” prevails in the end for whoever is in the “right”. We shouldn’t mock Jake or his accuser. 

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1 hour ago, tas said:

they'll be sure to weed out any potential jurors that have cdc accounts ...

A lot of bar room lawyers that aren't even old enough to drink then the rest...

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1 hour ago, BPA said:

I wonder if those proclaiming JV innocence are also those proclaiming Trump's innocence (yeah...had to include Trump :P).  Kinda similar situations except that after the 1st women came out, so did a whole lot of others.

 

Anyways...I will keep an open mind and hopefully not pre-judge JV too harshly.  I have a young daughter and kind of skews my position in this matter.

 

Here's a true story from my friend during high school (17yrs old) years.  He was with his girlfriend at the time and pinned her on her bed.  She didn't scream or holler but just cried and looked away.  Thankfully he stopped and the relationship ended.  So just think about that for a minute.  Not every girl has the fortitude to kick and scream and fight to the death.  They were in a relationship but obviously the girl was not ready for sex.  So was she naive for having him in her bedroom?  Probably some heavy makeout session was all she wanted but not sex.

yeah the idea that she was "naive" for going back to his hotel with him is ridiculous. "naive" for thinking a grown man would respect her boundaries and was capable of acting like an empathetic, caring human instead of a dope who simply wanted to get off. 

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On 6/9/2021 at 6:20 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

not sure this needs its own thread, but interesting that he doesn't deny they met up. 

 

maybe? who knows. 

 

Interesting that the Canucks chose to change investigators for a firm with more experience. 

 

He didn't deny he met her because the police will have his and her phone GPS data through Google, she might have his DNA in her underwear, and maybe surveillance video of them checking in still exists somewhere.  The best thing he could do is turn it into a he-said-she-said situation, which are nearly impossible to prosecutor and to win a judgment on.  Now if she has documentary evidence of physical injury, and if told her friends and maybe a medical professional immediately after it happened that Jake assaulted her, then her case stands a greater chance. 

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1 hour ago, tas said:

yeah the idea that she was "naive" for going back to his hotel with him is ridiculous. "naive" for thinking a grown man would respect her boundaries and was capable of acting like an empathetic, caring human instead of a dope who simply wanted to get off. 

Totally agree.  A girl’s naivety should have nothing to do with this.  That’s like saying she should have known better.  Both attitudes are dangerously ignorant.  

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3 hours ago, R3aL said:

jakes character in general has been sus throughout his young career and even his dedication / discipline to coming to camp in shape is concerning.

 

I personally want him gone regardless If this Is 100% true or not. Safe to say something occurred that was borderline 

This part I totally agree with. (Though I agree with most of what you said). Jake's immaturity leads him into questionable situations both on and off the ice. Combine that with his lack of work ethic and though I cannot recall any info getting out, one can assume that doesn't exactly endear him to the team.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but letting him walk would have been the best thing for Benning to do - though he seemingly didn't want to give up on his high draft pick. Instead, we can watch Toffoli from afar as he lights it up with the Habs.

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1 hour ago, kloubek said:

This part I totally agree with. (Though I agree with most of what you said). Jake's immaturity leads him into questionable situations both on and off the ice. Combine that with his lack of work ethic and though I cannot recall any info getting out, one can assume that doesn't exactly endear him to the team.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but letting him walk would have been the best thing for Benning to do - though he seemingly didn't want to give up on his high draft pick. Instead, we can watch Toffoli from afar as he lights it up with the Habs.

Great post and thanks for providing todays "daily reminder' about Uncle Jim's unthinkable decision to choose Lazy Jake over TT.    That will save me from having to post todays version.

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16 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Great post and thanks for providing todays "daily reminder' about Uncle Jim's unthinkable decision to choose Lazy Jake over TT.    That will save me from having to post todays version.

I wasn't aware TT was willing to sign for 2.5 million. And yes Benning should have walked from Jake after having a breakout year scoring 18 goals 6 less I believe than TT while being 5 years younger. Yea that is great asset management.

Let it it go guys, TT was traded pre- flat cap, he's gone because of that not for any other reason. The trade wouldn't have even happened without the expectation of a major cap increase, turn the page.

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1 hour ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

I wasn't aware TT was willing to sign for 2.5 million. And yes Benning should have walked from Jake after having a breakout year scoring 18 goals 6 less I believe than TT while being 5 years younger. Yea that is great asset management.

Let it it go guys, TT was traded pre- flat cap, he's gone because of that not for any other reason. The trade wouldn't have even happened without the expectation of a major cap increase, turn the page.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

But I was wanting to sign Toffoli, trade JV, and sign a cheaper backup ($2M Domingue?).  

 

Oh well. :mellow:

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Just my opinion  on this situation, and not regards to Virtanens game right now. on top of hearing inside story about people who associated with him and or, people who knew someone that was associated with him (knowing another CHL player that came across him) including people that went to the same school with him.

 

I will cut to the chase. 

 

First off I think it's painfully obvious what the intentions were.  He wanted a one night stand with this girl, and everything seems to be normal in his point of view, and in his point of view, this happens a lot with some athletes.  They guys sleep around. This shouldn't be new to people.  You guys aware of the term puck bunny?  yup he's seen a lot, these players come across this type of group before.    This type of hook up is also very common wether he is an athlete or not.  These one night stands happen all the time, any of us guys can go out pull some strings and find another women who wants to hook up with no strings attached.

 

Now in this case, I'm not sure what the girl is thinking, even if she shared this story with her friends, it's obvious what the intentions were.  Jake was expecting a one night stand, and he probably assume the girl knows His intentions.   Add to the fact, her friend said "you hooked up with a professional hockey player" means in her circle of friends they do random hook ups.  

 

Now in the case of rape, we don't know what is happening here.  To Jake Virtanen at this point in his age he's done it quite often to a point where he probably doesn't even remember which girl he is sued by.  Add to the fact apparently he hooks up a lot according to an individual who he lives in the same building with.  It's a different person every weekend or something.   I am even going to assume, he's like who is exactly suing me?  asking his lawyers for a photo probably.  

 

If we actually knew who the girl was, it will probably some guys out there who will say "oh I banged her too" type of thing.

 

anyways in regards to Jake, I really wished we traded him for Danton Heinin when we had the chance.  it's too late now.  Move on. 

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14 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Aren't you the guy that thought Dane Fox was going to be a star in the NHL?  Yah, I'll take what you say real seriously.

in all reality jake has a 100 more points in nhl than u ever will  so  kool story 

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