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Jake Virtanen update

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On 6/11/2021 at 12:06 AM, shayster007 said:

My word. Did you seriously just patronize someone who is clearly upset over a rape allegation? I must be interpreting that response wrong because if I'm not you would actually be scum of the earth and that's something I don't want to assume on someone.

Yeah, I did, I poked fun at the personal insult he made at me. And so? 

 

I was raising the very logical question why didn't the girl just try to leave or why wasn't there any struggle.  And he goes all ape$&!# on me calling me names and saying I dont know what rape is. Any investigator looking at a murder scene would ask why there wasn't any struggle. Doesn't point to any conclusions, there could be solid reasons, asking questions just digs deeper to finding out the truth. 

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4 hours ago, canuktravella said:

in all reality jake has a 100 more points in nhl than u ever will  so  kool story 

and 150 points fewer than mason raymond.

 

mason. raymond.

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1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Mason raymond was dope 

he was totally fine for what he was -- a deeply flawed bottom 9 forward of somewhat limited utility, but who could skate like the wind and for a time could help a team with depth scoring. 

 

virtanen has peaked as mason raymond with half the offense. 

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4 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Yeah, I did, I poked fun at the personal insult he made at me. And so? 

 

I was raising the very logical question why didn't the girl just try to leave or why wasn't there any struggle.  And he goes all ape$&!# on me calling me names and saying I dont know what rape is. Any investigator looking at a murder scene would ask why there wasn't any struggle. Doesn't point to any conclusions, there could be solid reasons, asking questions just digs deeper to finding out the truth. 

Alright, you answered my question. Didn't want to assume the worst but now it's not an assumption.

 

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15 hours ago, Alflives said:

Totally agree.  A girl’s naivety should have nothing to do with this.  That’s like saying she should have known better.  Both attitudes are dangerously ignorant.  

if being young and dumb was a crime we'd all have been in jail. 

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6 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Yeah, I did, I poked fun at the personal insult he made at me. And so? 

 

I was raising the very logical question why didn't the girl just try to leave or why wasn't there any struggle.  And he goes all ape$&!# on me calling me names and saying I dont know what rape is. Any investigator looking at a murder scene would ask why there wasn't any struggle. Doesn't point to any conclusions, there could be solid reasons, asking questions just digs deeper to finding out the truth. 

because some victims just don't react that way. I think people get their backs up because they can interpret that question as victim blaming. 

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On 6/11/2021 at 1:06 AM, Arrow 1983 said:

You have to ask what does she have that JV doesn't know. Unless there was a secret camera on her which also begs the question what was the point of a secret camera for. JV knows everything she knows and if he is smart his lawyer does to. As long as he doesn't say out right to his lawyer he did it his lawyer will be able to defend the case as if JV is telling him the truth

I mean if he’s hiding something from his lawyer. That questions his character right. Does the team really need a player like that? He’s not even that good. So if we lose him. Wouldn’t be much of a lose. Don’t get me wrong. I’m really sad that his career has gotten to this point. He’s not even that old and he hasn’t even been in the league that long. But it is what it is. I hope this gets resolved sooner rather than later. 

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16 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

I wasn't aware TT was willing to sign for 2.5 million. And yes Benning should have walked from Jake after having a breakout year scoring 18 goals 6 less I believe than TT while being 5 years younger. Yea that is great asset management.

Let it it go guys, TT was traded pre- flat cap, he's gone because of that not for any other reason. The trade wouldn't have even happened without the expectation of a major cap increase, turn the page.

Yes, I'm still waiting for the page to be turned on JB too and BTW, the reason TT wasn't signed was because he was left hanging for 4 days while Uncle Jim was busy trying to snag that DMan from Arizona - that fell though - and ignored all other contracts.  Even Tanev confirmed this, saying that after the Az deal was a "no go" he came back to him and made him a low ball offer but Tanev had already made his mind up to leave.   This jives with all the other off season fiasco's we've heard. 

 

And BTW, this needs to be repeated so it doesn't happen again as it's definitely the worse screw-up Uncle Jim has made amongst many (especially after signing Lucky loui) so he doesn't make any more screw-ball decisions as his asset management skills (I.e./Trades, resignings, movements) are horrendous not to mention two very bad wasted coveted first round picks in Lazy Jake & Yo-Levi not to mention a complete washout with last years draft where we will not have a single player coming out of that draft class.   So his four good (proven) picks to date are weighed down heavily by his failures.  

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1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Yes, I'm still waiting for the page to be turned on JB too and BTW, the reason TT wasn't signed was because he was left hanging for 4 days while Uncle Jim was busy trying to snag that DMan from Arizona - that fell though - and ignored all other contracts.  Even Tanev confirmed this, saying that after the Az deal was a "no go" he came back to him and made him a low ball offer but Tanev had already made his mind up to leave.   This jives with all the other off season fiasco's we've heard. 

 

And BTW, this needs to be repeated so it doesn't happen again as it's definitely the worse screw-up Uncle Jim has made amongst many (especially after signing Lucky loui) so he doesn't make any more screw-ball decisions as his asset management skills (I.e./Trades, resignings, movements) are horrendous not to mention two very bad wasted coveted first round picks in Lazy Jake & Yo-Levi not to mention a complete washout with last years draft where we will not have a single player coming out of that draft class.   So his four good (proven) picks to date are weighed down heavily by his failures.  

Really bad take imo. Toffoli and Tanev were never going to be part of our contending window so I support not prioritizing them and am fine with Tanev leaving as I wouldn't want him on our team on that contract. Toffoli stings a bit but as mentioned not really part of our future anyway.

 

The Jake contract is a tough one. Had a good regular season for large parts but showed nothing in the playoffs. As a high pick with untapped potential I understand the signing but I would have liked to see him traded at the precious deadline. Easy to say in hindsight though.

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2 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

I mean if he’s hiding something from his lawyer. That questions his character right. Does the team really need a player like that? He’s not even that good. So if we lose him. Wouldn’t be much of a lose. Don’t get me wrong. I’m really sad that his career has gotten to this point. He’s not even that old and he hasn’t even been in the league that long. But it is what it is. I hope this gets resolved sooner rather than later. 

IF he is hiding something from his lawyer. We will never know.

 

Character has nothing to do with it. If she is lying his character is not in question

 

If he did it character is the last thing that is question if he did it he is guilty.

 

The truth is we will never know what happen. All the prove will show is which story is more likely to have occurred and any prove i.e. messages between them will most likely show implied intent and in the best case for JV prior consent. These things would go to show that JVs story is more likely to have occurred. 

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1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Yes, I'm still waiting for the page to be turned on JB too and BTW, the reason TT wasn't signed was because he was left hanging for 4 days while Uncle Jim was busy trying to snag that DMan from Arizona - that fell though - and ignored all other contracts.  Even Tanev confirmed this, saying that after the Az deal was a "no go" he came back to him and made him a low ball offer but Tanev had already made his mind up to leave.   This jives with all the other off season fiasco's we've heard. 

 

And BTW, this needs to be repeated so it doesn't happen again as it's definitely the worse screw-up Uncle Jim has made amongst many (especially after signing Lucky loui) so he doesn't make any more screw-ball decisions as his asset management skills (I.e./Trades, resignings, movements) are horrendous not to mention two very bad wasted coveted first round picks in Lazy Jake & Yo-Levi not to mention a complete washout with last years draft where we will not have a single player coming out of that draft class.   So his four good (proven) picks to date are weighed down heavily by his failures.  

why do peeps still whine about Toffoli, he is happy with Montreal.  it is over and done with!  

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14 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Yeah, I did, I poked fun at the personal insult he made at me. And so? 

 

I was raising the very logical question why didn't the girl just try to leave or why wasn't there any struggle.  And he goes all ape$&!# on me calling me names and saying I dont know what rape is. Any investigator looking at a murder scene would ask why there wasn't any struggle. Doesn't point to any conclusions, there could be solid reasons, asking questions just digs deeper to finding out the truth. 

Rape doesn't have to be "violent".   A guy trying to persuade a woman who likes him can conveniently ignore the "no stop" that he hears in a forceful but gentle manner. It can be scary to have someone proceed when they're stronger than you and have you somewhere alone.  It's all fine and well to say you "should" do this or that, but that "freeze" factor does come into play as you try to process what is happening.  And you do expect your words to be respected without having to "struggle".   

 

You're asking the wrong questions because she shouldn't "HAVE" to leave to not be raped.  Think of it that way.  

 

Why didn't he just not?  (Not in this case until it's proven, but apply it to any case where that question is asked of the victim rather than the perpetrator).  The onus is on the rapist not to rape...not on the victim to somehow prevent it.  At the point that she says "no" it doesn't matter:  where she is, what she's wearing, how she looks, what the room temperature is, what she had for lunch.  At the point she says no and someone continues, they should be questioned.  

 

She clearly "liked" Jake and most relationships start out that way.  But if she didn't want the sexual advances to proceed, that's ok - she could still "like" the guy because most would tap into that and stop.  So just because she didn't flee doesn't mean she's somehow to blame here.

 

The victim really shouldn't have to answer questions - the person under investigation should.  Sure, it takes two sides/stories but she's given hers.  Now he needs to answer to them ... it's unfair to shred her statement.  She gave the details.

 

He has to now answer to her statement and provide his side of the story.  You don't immediately rip into hers.

 

I can't put blame on either side until the facts are proven.  Not sure we'll ever get the real story but hopefully some sort of justice will be served in either case.  I hope it's NOT true because I like Jake.

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On 6/10/2021 at 10:42 AM, Bertuzzipunch said:

Good to hear both sides right?

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/bc-news/vancouver-canucks-player-responds-to-lawsuit-alleging-sexual-misconduct-3861152

 

Virtanen denies the allegations “about what happened that evening,” adding “he did not physically force the plaintiff to have intercourse with him.”

In his filed response, Virtanen “denies that the plaintiff expressed any indication, verbal or physical, that she did not want to engage in any sexual activity.”

Adding, “the plaintiff, through her words and conduct indicated that she consented to the sexual activity that occurred.”

Its not that he spoke out.  They are quoting documents he filed in court/

 

Unless I misread?

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On 6/11/2021 at 1:14 PM, shayster007 said:

Statics mean litterally nothing in court. I already explained that to you. The entire reason why I'm part of this conversation is because of comments like what Travella and Patel are saying. I'm not asking for Jake to be burned at the stake. I'm trying to enlighten people who are ignorantly victim blaming. 

 

Like I already said, I have not once brought up my opinion on his guilt or innocence. Just provided the strict statics around these sorts of crimes.

Except that you're not.   Earlier in the thread, you clearly indicated and implied that Virtanen should be kicked out of the league based on what he appears to have done based on the statistics.   You may not have asked for Jake to be burned at the stake, but you clearly do want Jake to have his career ended based on "what the statistics say."   

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2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Except that you're not.   Earlier in the thread, you clearly indicated and implied that Virtanen should be kicked out of the league based on what he appears to have done based on the statistics.   You may not have asked for Jake to be burned at the stake, but you clearly do want Jake to have his career ended based on "what the statistics say."   

Quote me saying that Patel. Read back the last few pages and quote me saying I think he should be kicked out of the league.

 

My stance on this has never waivered. The numbers alone tell us there is a 95% chance that Virtanen did this. I pray he didn't. I pray this young woman made a terrible mistake and Jake is part of the 5% that is the victim in this scenario because that means that a young woman didn't have her life derailed due to a sexual assult. That is best case scenario in this situation right now. Unfortunately, statistics tell us that is the far less likely scenario. I have never once stated my opinion on Jake or if he should be kicked out of the league like you just said I did. I have only provided the hard facts around these types of cases as an argument against blindly defending Jake, like you do.

 

So show me where I said that Patel, back up your words. Last time you tried to you wrote an entire story around completely false information. I'm curious what you can do this time.

 

@Patel Burecan you back up your words? All a man has is his words. Do you truely have no integrity?

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