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Jake Virtanen update

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6 minutes ago, Sergei Shirokov said:

I think the Canucks would actually miss Virtanen. He wasn't the top-six power forward everyone was hoping for during the draft, but he was still a useful roster player. He scored goals in the bottom six, added speed to a somewhat slow team, and threw some heavy hits. Up until this year, he was steadily improving with each season. Just a reminder, almost everyone on the team under performed this year. Replacing Virtanen with a Lind, Lockwood, MacEwen or Gadjovich would be a step back. 

 

 

 

Virtanen wasn't drafted to be a bottom 6 forward. He doesn't penalty kill either. This is like saying that the Canucks miss Eriksson for his defensive prowess. It was pretty obvious that Virtanen for the most part did not fit Green's system/philosophy. I do think that WD/Green deserves some responsibility for Virtanen's lack of success. At the same time, Virtanen has barely put in much of an effort to reforming himself too.

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11 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

So basically the truth is either the girl is looking for a payday after Virtanen's signed that 5.1million contract and is in the gutters being on the shortleash this season. Or Virtanen did physically force the girl, aka rape. My gut feeling it is the first (pls dont crucify me). 

 

However this pans out Virtanen would take a lot of luck to get his career back on track. 

or maybe shades of grey exist in the world.

 

it's possible for her to feel like she was sexually assaulted or taken advantage of or coerced while not being motivated financially, and it's possible for him to feel like he didn't do those things without lying. that's what makes these things so difficult to adjudicate. they can both be right at the same time -- she didn't say no because she froze up (though in this particular case she claims to have said no multiple times), but he didn't specifically ask for consent ... how do you accurately judge these things? 

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7 minutes ago, Sergei Shirokov said:

I don't think the Canucks would actually miss Virtanen. He wasn't the top-six power forward everyone was hoping for during the draft, and he did almost nothing on the ice. He scored a few goals but looked otherwise uninspired, added speed to a somewhat slow team, and threw a heavy hit or two - despite us expecting him doing what he is capable of. Up until this year, he was steadily improving with each season and then fell off a cliff. Just a reminder, almost everyone on the team under performed this year, but few worse than Jake. Replacing Virtanen with a Lind, Lockwood, MacEwen or Gadjovich or really, anyone else who wants to play hard would be a step in the right direction.

Fixed it for you.

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Whether guilty or not guilty, the issue is that Jake continues to put himself in these types of situations.  I get this could have happened to anyone on the team and that the allegation against Jake dates back to 2017 but it continues to show his lack of commitment to hockey and to make himself a better player.  He's lost potential millions in earnings because of it.  

 

Wonder if his contract has a clause that allows the Canucks to terminate his contract?  I guess if they did they would have done it by now?  Or are they hoping to expose him in the expansion draft and if not picked terminate or buyout his contract after?

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4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Virtanen wasn't drafted to be a bottom 6 forward. He doesn't penalty kill either. This is like saying that the Canucks miss Eriksson for his defensive prowess. It was pretty obvious that Virtanen for the most part did not fit Green's system/philosophy. I do think that WD/Green deserves some responsibility for Virtanen's lack of success. At the same time, Virtanen has barely put in much of an effort to reforming himself too.

No it's not. Virtanen has a 2.5 m cap hit, and adds something tangible to the roster. Loui Eriksson has 6 M cap hit, doesn't hit, is kind of slow, and doesn't do much. He did fit in Green's style. Green plays a fast aggressive style. 

Edited by Sergei Shirokov
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51 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I think there's also a significant reputation damage.

 

It's foolish not to hear his side of the story and simply side with the 'other'. There's A LOT of questions to be answered still. I really wonder what took him so long to say this outright, not that it would change how people would perceive him anyway. Many of the twitter warriors, for instance, insist that Virtanen is guilty - even before all the evidence has been laid out.

 

I think it's also important that the criminal investigation is ongoing (not likely to get anything from it), alongside a civil one. This, to me, indicates that the accusations are not very strong. Far too much time has passed by (many reasons for this to happen, of course), which most certainly would not assist the accuser, with regards to the criminal aspect. And if there are texts that go back and forth AFTER the said incident, any rape sexual misconduct claims could be nullified in court. Let's be clear though: in such a situation, that doesn't 'prove' that rape didn't happen. The only thing that would absolve Virtanen of all wrongdoing is if he wasn't there at all. Unfortunately, he was there. He put himself in that position. Very tricky.

In my opinion, this is going to be dealt with on the civil side. And if Virtanen is considering countersuing, this could be a very messy civil case. Even dropping her lawsuit may or may not stop him from proceeding with a countersuit. At best, she's hoping that Virtanen will settle. That is likely her only way to 'win'.

 

In the event that she lied or misrepresented her stuff, she's going to pay big time. Either way, Virtanen is going to get shipped out, no matter what. Such a terrible ending for a player that never could put it together.

It took this long because Virtanen waited to give his sworn testimony in a court of law, through a lawyer.  To his credit, it is clearly evident that he isn't trying to have his case heard through the media or a public forum.  And not surprisingly, his statement is the Kobe Bryant defence statement - "it was consensual" (paraphrased).

 

FTR, Virtanen has been brought up on allegations of sexual misconduct, not rape.  Big difference, as sexual misconduct could include anything and everything, with rape being one of those allegations. Sorry for splitting hairs.

 

On another matter, as I'm reading the article, I couldn't help but think this is sport imitating life and vice-versa, in that my thought was "Does Jake Virtanen have the same real-life IQ as he does with his hockey IQ?".  Jake's side of the story is essentially "yah, we had sex.  But she wanted to" when sworn statements from the plaintiff is clearly the opposite.  Regardless, we've all seen how stupid Jake is as a hockey player (this is a fact).  Wouldn't surprise me if he was as equally stupid in all other aspects of his life (this one is pure conjecture).  

 

Regardless of how the case turns out, I hope the Canucks cut him loose.  Even though this matter is something more important and much larger than hockey, Virtanen is not good at hockey. 

 

Edited by bigbadcanucks
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1 minute ago, Sergei Shirokov said:

No it's not. Virtanen has a 2.5 m cap hit, and adds something tangible to the roster. Loui Eriksson has 6 M cap hit, doesn't hit, is kind of slow, and doesn't do much other than be defensively responsible. 

Really?  Did you see him play at all this past season? 

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2 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

Really?  Did you see him play at all this past season? 

Yeah he had a bad season. So did most of the team. The canucks finished behind Ottawa. 

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7 minutes ago, tas said:

or maybe shades of grey exist in the world.

 

it's possible for her to feel like she was sexually assaulted or taken advantage of or coerced while not being motivated financially, and it's possible for him to feel like he didn't do those things without lying. that's what makes these things so difficult to adjudicate. they can both be right at the same time -- she didn't say no because she froze up (though in this particular case she claims to have said no multiple times), but he didn't specifically ask for consent ... how do you accurately judge these things? 

Dont have to overcomplicate things. There are two facts that we know. The girl willing went inside the hotel room with Virtanen. And the girl willingly agreed to make out and have body contact. If she wanted to get out before any sexual thing happened, she can kick, run, scream, throw things, gorge Virtanen's eyes, bang at the wall for help. Doesn't sound like she did any of that. 

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34 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

So basically the truth is either the girl is looking for a payday after Virtanen's signed that 5.1million contract and is in the gutters being on the shortleash this season. Or Virtanen did physically force the girl, aka rape. My gut feeling it is the first (pls dont crucify me). 

 

However this pans out Virtanen would take a lot of luck to get his career back on track. 

Yep.

 

But this could also be a big wake up call for Jake as I think he needs to grow up. 

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8 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Dont have to overcomplicate things. There are two facts that we know. The girl willing went inside the hotel room with Virtanen. And the girl willingly agreed to make out and have body contact. If she wanted to get out before any sexual thing happened, she can kick, run, scream, throw things, gorge Virtanen's eyes, bang at the wall for help. Doesn't sound like she did any of that. 

That's what I was thinking.  When she came and he supposedly started kissing her neck and she didn't want that then why wouldn't she leave. ? 

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19 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

 

 

FTR, Virtanen has been brought up on allegations of sexual misconduct, not rape.  Big difference, as sexual misconduct could include anything and everything, with rape being one of those allegations. Sorry for splitting hairs.

 

This is confusing?  They had sex right? Virtanen has admitted that.

So if she didn't consent then that's rape right. If they had sex then what's the sexual misconduct charge for exactly? 

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8 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Dont have to overcomplicate things. There are two facts that we know. The girl willing went inside the hotel room with Virtanen. And the girl willingly agreed to make out and have body contact. If she wanted to get out before any sexual thing happened, she can kick, run, scream, throw things, gorge Virtanen's eyes, bang at the wall for help. Doesn't sound like she did any of that. 

Please educate yourself, this scream of ignorance.

 

I am not saying jake is or isn't guilty, but what you're saying is victim blaming - it is not uncommon for victims of sexual assault to freeze or not respond in an expected manner.

 

It's so easy to say after the fact why didnt the person do this or that, and I know survivors of sexual assault who wish they responded differently in the moment.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, amplified0ne said:

Whether guilty or not guilty, the issue is that Jake continues to put himself in these types of situations.  I get this could have happened to anyone on the team and that the allegation against Jake dates back to 2017 but it continues to show his lack of commitment to hockey and to make himself a better player.  He's lost potential millions in earnings because of it.  

 

Wonder if his contract has a clause that allows the Canucks to terminate his contract?  I guess if they did they would have done it by now?  Or are they hoping to expose him in the expansion draft and if not picked terminate or buyout his contract after?

You nailed it, grow up Jake, you’re being paid millions to play in the NHL for the team you grew up loving. This is literally the life everyone on this board dreamed about at some point and he is throwing it away. All he has to do is stay home and not be a douchebag. 

Edited by Convincing John
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24 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Dont have to overcomplicate things. There are two facts that we know. The girl willing went inside the hotel room with Virtanen. And the girl willingly agreed to make out and have body contact. If she wanted to get out before any sexual thing happened, she can kick, run, scream, throw things, gorge Virtanen's eyes, bang at the wall for help. Doesn't sound like she did any of that. 

uh, if any of those things are necessary, it's rape. are you saying a rape victim is at fault for being raped because she didn't gouge her rapist's eyes out?

 

I thought people like this were a myth. 

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30 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

It took this long because Virtanen waited to give his sworn testimony in a court of law, through a lawyer.  To his credit, it is clearly evident that he isn't trying to have his case heard through the media or a public forum.  And not surprisingly, his statement is the Kobe Bryant defence statement - "it was consensual" (paraphrased).

 

FTR, Virtanen has been brought up on allegations of sexual misconduct, not rape.  Big difference, as sexual misconduct could include anything and everything, with rape being one of those allegations. Sorry for splitting hairs.

 

On another matter, as I'm reading the article, I couldn't help but think this is sport imitating life and vice-versa, in that my thought was "Does Jake Virtanen have the same real-life IQ as he does with his hockey IQ?".  Jake's side of the story is essentially "yah, we had sex.  But she wanted to" when sworn statements from the plaintiff is clearly the opposite.  Regardless, we've all seen how stupid Jake is as a hockey player (this is a fact).  Wouldn't surprise me if he was as equally stupid in all other aspects of his life (this one is pure conjecture).  

 

Regardless of how the case turns out, I hope the Canucks cut him loose.  Even though this matter is something more important and much larger than hockey, Virtanen is not good at hockey. 

Sexual misconduct, in this particular case, IS rape. Based on the lengthy description by the accuser on the online forum, Virtanen sure sounded like a rapist. THAT BEING SAID, that is only one version of the events, which may or may not be true. And it's also possible that the version she told, and the version that Virtanen told could have shared truths. It is not simply fair to believe one side over the other.

 

Also, the 'dumb' hockey IQ thing is such a tired stereotype. Virtanen makes dumb decisions, which is tantamount to us making dumb decisions in every day life. He is just scrutinized more so than everyone else. It doesn't make him a 'dumb' hockey player. So no, it's not a 'fact'. That is just a perception. A bias really.

 

What I will agree is that Virtanen has a history of making questionable decisions. Whether Virtanen is innocent or not in this particular situation, he put himself in this position, much like how he basically played himself off the roster. Some of the blame may be attributed to the coaching of WD/TG. Ultimately, he is a big boy and has to mature.

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Amaneey said:

Please educate yourself, this scream of ignorance.

 

I am not saying jake is or isn't guilty, but what you're saying is victim blaming - it is not uncommon for victims of sexual assault to freeze or not respond in an expected manner.

 

It's so easy to say after the fact why didnt the person do this or that, and I know survivors of sexual assault who wish they responded differently in the moment.

 

 

I think you are right that the victim blaming thing is something we have to remember when analyzing the situation; however, if we are to search for the truth, we have to look at all angles of it, including the accuser. You cannot create a truth based on one perspective that resonates with a particular audience (and this applies as much to Virtanen's supporters who feel he did not commit rape).

It sounds like a cop-out, but the situation sounds a lot more complicated than she's a victim and he's the aggressor. (Not saying you were making assumptions to begin with, but just adding to the discussion).

 

It really doesn't do her any favours (and there are lots of reasons why she did not report) that the report came so late. I've read that even with evidence, at least some victims have trouble convincing law enforcement that they were actually raped. No doubt the situation has been bad for sexual assault survivors.

Therefore, the civil lawsuit route seems to be a backup plan for her, in the hopes Virtanen will settle. Some people will ultimately look at this as blackmail from her part. Others will complain about the legal system not protecting SA victims.

Even if she throws out the lawsuit, that doesn't mean Virtanen is innocent. However, if Virtanen is pursuing "special fees" (I read this somewhere else), that sounds to me like he will counter-sue, in which case the onus is back on her. Maybe Virtanen is innocent out of this. Maybe not. I just know that people on twitter who jumped to the defence of either party are IDIOTS.

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14 minutes ago, tas said:

uh, if any of those things are necessary, it's rape. are you saying a rape victim is at fault for being raped because she didn't gouge her rapist's eyes out?

 

I thought people like this were a myth. 

It's true. Sometimes rape can happen without any physical resistance. Maybe there's no physical proof of this resistance. Maybe she consented to the sex and changed her mind in the middle of it (for various reasons). From the criminal aspect, I don't think she'll have a very strong case, especially if the rumours are true that she texted him afterwards (and had an ongoing conversation). Virtanen is saying that she consented, and claims to have proof of this (through the texts).

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