SCSF: (1) Vegas Golden Knights vs. (4) Montreal Canadiens | Canadiens win series 4-2

[RUPERTKBD]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

there's the paper bag you asked for more of.

Again - I'm not going to bother with you here - because you're unable to have a conversation - instead you're off on "conspiracy" (when just a few posts ago you were maintaining that it makes perfect sense for 'privately held companies' to act in their economic interest.

I'm sorry but that's enough of this for me.

Funny, I see it completely the other way around.

 

I've been trying to find out what point you're making for the past several posts, and you respond with downvotes and insults. I honestly can't tell if you subscribe to the conspiracy theory or not, because every time I ask, you respond in some cryptic manner that leaves it up for debate.

 

I've already agreed that I dislike game management, so I really don't understand what your problem with me is....

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Funny, I see it completely the other way around.

 

I've been trying to find out what point you're making for the past several posts, and you respond with downvotes and insults. I honestly can't tell if you subscribe to the conspiracy theory or not, because every time I ask, you respond in some cryptic manner that leaves it up for debate.

 

I've already agreed that I dislike game management, so I really don't understand what your problem with me is....

I don't know you - nor do I have a "problem"  with you.

I've pointed out that being 'embarrassed' by an entire fanbase is an odd sense of (borderline transcendental / or corporate?) identity.

You're in here mocking people that are criticizing the officiating - from some bizarre, abstract 'high ground' that require reductive narratives.

I'm pointing out obvious contradictions in that.

I could not care less how you storyline the horrible officiating - it is what it is - you seem to recognize it as a fact - and yet you need to reduce it to 'conspiracy' in order to dismiss it.  Carry on if you must - but I'm having a hard time seeing a point.

[Alflives]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

you seem to really want to dig into this so....

this realization of yours might help explain a lot.

both why "the fix" is in lol  - that is sarcasm btw so don't bother - (however, you do realize NHL teams and the NHL as a whole fall in this same category = 'privately held company/companies' - in spite of using the public names of 'our' cities)  - but also raises the question - if you see this underlying corporate reality, why you would identify with a privately held company?  let alone the entire 'fanbase' (of 'public' individuals) identifying with a 'privately owned company'? 

and further - why would you then laugh off the implication that the 'privately held company' might act in their corporate/economic interest - to expand their markets/"cater" to US franchises - (when clearly they can take the 'Canadian' market for granted - people here will come back endlessly regardless - no Cups in forever, and yet...here 'we' are.

 

No Canadian team has won a Cup during the Betman era, right?  And the league is now 32 teams making billions.  Connecting the dots sure can lead to more than refs’ game management.  

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

I don't know you - nor do I have a "problem"  with you.

I've pointed out that being 'embarrassed' by an entire fanbase is an odd sense of (borderline transcendental / or corporate?) identity.

You're in here mocking people that are criticizing the officiating - from some bizarre, abstract 'high ground' that require reductive narratives.

I'm pointing out obvious contradictions in that.

I could not care less how you storyline the horrible officiating - it is what it is - you seem to recognize it as a fact - and yet you need to reduce it to 'conspiracy' in order to dismiss it.  Carry on if you must - but I'm having a hard time seeing a point.

Not the entire fansbase....just the ones who believe that the league is making sure no Canadian team wins the Cup. I'm sorry if that sounds like mockery, but I just think it's ridiculous.

 

The people who just see it as "poor refereeing" I have zero problem with.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

I know it wasn't

 

I tune most whingers out. I've spent enough time in T.O and lived in Van for ages. Good and bad folk like anywhere else.

 

The Center of the Universe stuff comes alot from the media too, and the early games that cater to the Eastern viewership. That gets on peoples nerves i think

 

 

this. TO is a fun city to visit but the media there is 

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No Canadian team has won a Cup during the Betman era, right?  And the league is now 32 teams making billions.  Connecting the dots sure can lead to more than refs’ game management.  

I'm not going to bother with some attempt to 'connect dots'.

 

Whether it's a 'conspiracy'  - or simply one arrogant official (with an extremely consistent record of fking up games) who decides he doesn't 'like' a particular team, or a few players on that team - or whatever his invisible motivation might be for ignoring blatant, point-blank penalties - it is what it is.  Chris Lee - is just one of a handful of 'usual suspects' who do this on a regular basis.  And "playoff hockey" is an unacceptable oversimplification.  I've seen plenty of games that were handled reasonably well in these playoffs..

Vegas down 2-1 - and Chris Lee being Chris Lee.  Coincidence?  I don't care - it's unacceptable, gong-show, incompetent, unprofessional 'game management' regardless of however one elects to spin it.  The 'standards' are radically moving goalposts - and have been for a long time.  It doesn't even require a larger pattern for it to be a serious problem.  Thoroughly Fking up one game in a 7 game series can entirely alter the outcome.   The fact that it's recurring only underlines it.

[RUPERTKBD]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No Canadian team has won a Cup during the Betman era, right?  And the league is now 32 teams making billions.  Connecting the dots sure can lead to more than refs’ game management.  

I've already mentioned the Leafs winning the Matthews sweepstakes....and of course, there were all of the Oiler's wins. Arizona had the 3rd pick in 2015....so Bettman didn't swing either Connor McDavid or Austin Matthews to his "favorite" team?

 

But lets say for sake of argument, that refs are "instructed" by the league to favor US franchises. Bettman has been in charge of the NHL for almost 30 years.....in that time, several referees and linesman have retired (and one or two have been fired) yet not a single one has blown the whistle on this huge conspiracy?

 

The amount of money involved pretty much guarantees that Bettman, Daly et al, would receive lengthy prison sentences, yet we should believe that they'd risk their jobs and their freedom for the dubious distinction of helping American teams beat Canadian teams?

 

Sorry Alf, I just don't see it.

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I've already mentioned the Leafs winning the Matthews sweepstakes....and of course, there were all of the Oiler's wins. Arizona had the 3rd pick in 2015....so Bettman didn't swing either Connor McDavid or Austin Matthews to his "favorite" team?

 

lottery champions rarely win anything.  that's part of the conspiracy.  give consolation prizes to the also rans lol.

have a look back at all the 1st overall picks for the last few decades and aside from a few Penguins, ask if there is any real connection of lotteries to Cups....

 

and btw - Toronto is only half Canadian - the other half wishes it were American.

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

lottery champions rarely win anything.  that's part of the conspiracy.  give consolation prizes to the also rans lol.

have a look back at all the 1st overall picks for the last few decades and aside from a few Penguins, ask if there is any real connection of lotteries to Cups....

 

and btw - Toronto is only half Canadian - the other half wishes it were American.

There's the Blackhawks as well, but it's a fair point. The Oilers are pretty much the poster child franchise for first overall futility....

 

Still, I think that's somewhat beside the point. Bettman wants to see hockey thrive in the desert...i don't think anyone disputes that....however, a Cup is not the only thing that would drive revenue in Phoenix. I think the best player in the league (with the possible exception of McKinnon) or local boy Matthews would have created a huge amount of local interest for the 'Yotes.

 

This isn't a knock on Dylan Strome, or Clayton Keller, but neither of those names have anywhere near the impact of McDavid, and/or Matthews.

[oldnews]

21 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Not the entire fansbase....just the ones who believe that the league is making sure no Canadian team wins the Cup. I'm sorry if that sounds like mockery, but I just think it's ridiculous.

 

The people who just see it as "poor refereeing" I have zero problem with.

and yet you state that it's perfectly natural for "privately held companies" to cater to their larger markets.....

 

should I suggest that your take is "ridiculous"?  it that a media "conspiracy"?

 

would you like me to come back once your cooler head has prevailed?

 

I think it's perfectly 'natural' for people to be incensed by continuously incompetent, consistently horrible 'game management'. 

Call that what you like - but in sport - people expect 'fairness' and consistency / whether that's unrealistic with 'privately held companies' or not.

 

There would appear to be an agreement - that it goes beyond 'accidental' or simple 'human error' - to "game management".  So how does one define this "game management" 'reasonably'?

[PhillipBlunt]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm not going to bother with some attempt to 'connect dots'.

 

Whether it's a 'conspiracy'  - or simply one arrogant official (with an extremely consistent record of fking up games) who decides he doesn't 'like' a particular team, or a few players on that team - or whatever his invisible motivation might be for ignoring blatant, point-blank penalties - it is what it is.  Chris Lee - is just one of a handful of 'usual suspects' who do this on a regular basis.  And "playoff hockey" is an unacceptable oversimplification.  I've seen plenty of games that were handled reasonably well in these playoffs..

Vegas down 2-1 - and Chris Lee being Chris Lee.  Coincidence?  I don't care - it's unacceptable, gong-show, incompetent, unprofessional 'game management' regardless of however one elects to spin it.  The 'standards' are radically moving goalposts - and have been for a long time.  It doesn't even require a larger pattern for it to be a serious problem.  Thoroughly Fking up one game in a 7 game series can entirely alter the outcome.   The fact that it's recurring only underlines it.

I think the officiating is the way it is because the officials aren't held accountable for their poor decisions in game. Like at all. They ignore flagrant fouls and call phantom calls game in and game out. Regular season and playoffs. To every single team in the league. 

 

Is cross checking now allowed? Based on watching most playoff games, it is. So maybe the league should advise teams that their is one rulebook for the regular season, and an augmented one for the playoffs. 

 

If there was an independent third body in the NHL that held officials accountable, I think you'd see a change in performance, but as long as they only need to answer to league management (and are protected by the league through fines to those that criticize) nothing will change. 

 

That being said, I think the coaches and players are getting tired of it. More than one coach has commented on the arbitrary method that most officials approach their jobs with this season, so it seems as though it's not going to be as easy to sweep under the rug, as it once was.  

 

 

[oldnews]

Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

 

Still, I think that's somewhat beside the point.

 

yes - lotteries are beside the point - but you brought up this side point (as if it dispels 'conspiracy') - and it has literally nothing to do with playoff officiating.

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I've already mentioned the Leafs winning the Matthews sweepstakes....and of course, there were all of the Oiler's wins. Arizona had the 3rd pick in 2015....so Bettman didn't swing either Connor McDavid or Austin Matthews to his "favorite" team?

 

But lets say for sake of argument, that refs are "instructed" by the league to favor US franchises. Bettman has been in charge of the NHL for almost 30 years.....in that time, several referees and linesman have retired (and one or two have been fired) yet not a single one has blown the whistle on this huge conspiracy?

 

The amount of money involved pretty much guarantees that Bettman, Daly et al, would receive lengthy prison sentences, yet we should believe that they'd risk their jobs and their freedom for the dubious distinction of helping American teams beat Canadian teams?

 

Sorry Alf, I just don't see it.

I thought we were unfairly treated by the league in the 2011 Final.  Alf holds a grudge.  

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think the officiating is the way it is because the officials aren't held accountable for their poor decisions in game. Like at all. They ignore flagrant fouls and call phantom calls game in and game out. Regular season and playoffs. To every single team in the league. 

 

Is cross checking now allowed? Based on watching most playoff games, it is. So maybe the league should advise teams that their is one rulebook for the regular season, and an augmented one for the playoffs. 

 

If there was an independent third body in the NHL that held officials accountable, I think you'd see a change in performance, but as long as they only need to answer to league management (and are protected by the league through fines to those that criticize) nothing will change. 

 

That being said, I think the coaches and players are getting tired of it. More than one coach has commented on the arbitrary method that most officials approach their jobs with this season, so it seems as though it's not going to be as easy to sweep under the rug, as it once was.  

 

 

vs. the reality - that it's in the hands of people like Colin Campbell.

so is it really surprising that not much has changed since email-gate?

[oldnews]

Just now, Alflives said:

I thought we were unfairly treated by the league in the 2011 Final.  Alf holds a grudge.  

yes - and the Canadian crabs dynamic played out fairly clearly as well.

 

one Canadian crab attempted to crawl out of the bucket - the rest of the little Canadian crabs (for the most part, were envious, and) latched on and dragged that courageous little crab back down.

 

I'm not going to repeat that performance due to a grudge (against primarily the center of the universe lol).

 

I'm 100% on team 'Canada' - the Montreal Canadians....because of my artificial "Canadian" identity (I've been fooled by the private corporate entities - still hold fast to illusions of - public - identity!)

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

vs. the reality - that it's in the hands of people like Colin Campbell.

so is it really surprising that not much has changed since email-gate?

Not at all. The fact that Campbell was allowed to serve in his role during a stint where his son was an active player in the league tells one all that they need to know.

 

I mean, his response to the email gate.......

 

"it (the email content) was inappropriate. But no one told me or maybe told you five years ago that you can take your emails and read them all."

[PhillipBlunt]

A job well done, Colin.

[RUPERTKBD]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

and yet you state that it's perfectly natural for "privately held companies" to cater to their larger markets.....

 

should I suggest that your take is "ridiculous"?  it that a media "conspiracy"?

 

would you like me to come back once your cooler head has prevailed?

 

I think it's perfectly 'natural' for people to be incensed by continuously incompetent, consistently horrible 'game management'. 

Call that what you like - but in sport - people expect 'fairness' and consistency / whether that's unrealistic with 'privately held companies' or not.

 

There would appear to be an agreement - that it goes beyond 'accidental' or simple 'human error' - to "game management".  So how does one define this "game management" 'reasonably'?

I do....but there's a huge difference between catering to your largest market and doing something illegal....fixing professional sporting events is illegal....TSN talking about the Leafs, Jays and TFC, before even mentioning the Habs is not...

[RUPERTKBD]

16 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

yes - lotteries are beside the point - but you brought up this side point (as if it dispels 'conspiracy') - and it has literally nothing to do with playoff officiating.

No, but it does have to do with "connecting the dots", (NHL favoritism) which is what Alf and I were discussing....

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

A job well done, Colin.