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SCSF: (1) Vegas Golden Knights vs. (4) Montreal Canadiens | Canadiens win series 4-2

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2021 Stanley Cup Semifinals  

128 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win the series?

    • Golden Knights in 4
      9
    • Golden Knights in 5
      32
    • Golden Knights in 6
      21
    • Golden Knights in 7
      4
    • Canadiens in 4
      2
    • Canadiens in 5
      8
    • Canadiens in 6
      21
    • Canadiens in 7
      30

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  • Poll closed on 06/17/2021 at 01:00 AM

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15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I thought we were unfairly treated by the league in the 2011 Final.  Alf holds a grudge.  :frantic:

The Marchand punches to Daniel and the Rome suspension were brutal, but overall, the Canucks had more PP opportunities than the Bruins....they just were too beat up to take advantage.

 

As far a Rome goes, I believed then and I believe now that he was scapegoated. The league hates the optics of seeing a player carried off on a stretcher after a big hit and they decided to "make an example" of Aaron Rome. It was supposed to set "a new standard" for player discipline, but the next season when players started getting longer suspensions, GMs complained so loudly that the league backed off.

 

FTR: I believe that Mark Schiefele was scapegoated as well.

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25 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I think the officiating is the way it is because the officials aren't held accountable for their poor decisions in game. Like at all. They ignore flagrant fouls and call phantom calls game in and game out. Regular season and playoffs. To every single team in the league. 

 

Is cross checking now allowed? Based on watching most playoff games, it is. So maybe the league should advise teams that their is one rulebook for the regular season, and an augmented one for the playoffs. 

 

If there was an independent third body in the NHL that held officials accountable, I think you'd see a change in performance, but as long as they only need to answer to league management (and are protected by the league through fines to those that criticize) nothing will change. 

 

That being said, I think the coaches and players are getting tired of it. More than one coach has commented on the arbitrary method that most officials approach their jobs with this season, so it seems as though it's not going to be as easy to sweep under the rug, as it once was. 

I think it goes a bit deeper than just the referees refusing to make calls. If the league actually took them all aside and told them "A penalty is a penalty....whether it's in the first period of game one, or OT of game seven. Call it.", I think they would do it...

 

But that's not what the teams want. Owners and GMs have the power to force that change, (Bettman and Daly work for them, after all) but there is no will to do so.

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14 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

The Marchand punches to Daniel and the Rome suspension were brutal, but overall, the Canucks had more PP opportunities than the Bruins....they just were too beat up to take advantage.

Frankly, Daniel should have snapped and fed Marchand some shots. I think that would have emboldened the Canucks to solider on. Rome's suspension was ridiculous. It was worthy of a game, maybe two, but that was about it. 

 

I do have issue though with Ference getting away with a two handed stick chop to Bieksa's calf, and Boychuk's completely unwarranted attack on Raymond. Those should have both resulted in game misconducts. 

 

The main issues that affected the Canucks chances were Hamhuis deadlifting Lucic (still don't know why he did that), and Malhotra's injury. Losing a top four defenseman, and a third line center who was a faceoff machine was brutal. 

 

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It's literally deja vu every year in the NHL, call ridiculous amount of penalties in the regular season to hopefully generate more scoring for fan entertainment, then come playoffs put the whistles away to make it more physical entertainment and close games. I've been calling the NHL a bush league for years for this exact reason, a professional sport that has two different standards for officiating their sport in a year, is a bush league. I say this every year because the same thing happens every year, and it's all on the NHL, they're the ones telling their employees(referees) what to do, that's why you see such a dramatic change in calls. 

 

I haven't watched a whole lot in these series, but yesterday watched a bit of the 2nd period, and saw the incident where Weber and I forget who both got penalties, but watching Weber have his back to the play and the guy tried not once but twice to hit him in the numbers, and they don't bother to call either one, now they're not even trying to protect the players in the league because they want to put the whistles away, that was ridiculous to watch. Especially when a few days ago I caught a bit of the Tampa/Islanders game and Islanders had just tied it up 1-1, play went on after, Tampa dumped the puck behind the Islanders net, Islanders D kind of got into the Tampa forwards path into the Islanders zone small little pick but nothing was coming out of it, the goalie had the puck behind the net it wasn't like the Tampa player was close to the puck, but that was enough for the refs in that game to call the first penalty of the game right after Islanders tied it up in the 2nd period. It was such a soft call, but then you see what's not being called in the Habs Vegas game and it's just a joke imo, hence why the NHL = Bush League.  

 

A league that has rules and standards that they implement throughout a season to let their players know what's acceptable and what's not, to then just be thrown out the window come playoffs is just a slap in the face imo from the NHL to the players playing in their bush run league. 

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2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think it goes a bit deeper than just the referees refusing to make calls. If the league actually took them all aside and told them "A penalty is a penalty....whether it's in the first period of game one, or OT of game seven. Call it.", I think they would do it...

I'm not sure what their impetus is for not calling obvious penalties, but there are too many examples to count of interference and cross checking occurring right in front of their eyes. It's a joke really. I get if a ref is watching the play, and a slash occurs when his back is turned or it happens just outside of his sight line, but to clearly see it occur and not call it. That's farsical. 

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

But that's not what the teams want. Owners and GMs have the power to force that change, (Bettman and Daly work for them, after all) but there is no will to do so.

Well, coaches are starting to speak up. Cassidy has been pretty vocal about the standard of officiating. Do you think that puts him at odds with Sweeney and Jacobs?

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11 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

The Marchand punches to Daniel and the Rome suspension were brutal, but overall, the Canucks had more PP opportunities than the Bruins....they just were too beat up to take advantage.

 

As far a Rome goes, I believed then and I believe now that he was scapegoated. The league hates the optics of seeing a player carried off on a stretcher after a big hit and they decided to "make an example" of Aaron Rome. It was supposed to set "a new standard" for player discipline, but the next season when players started getting longer suspensions, GMs complained so loudly that the league backed off.

 

FTR: I believe that Mark Schiefele was scapegoated as well.

Funny how that logic didn't kick in with Raymond's broken back.  The league is not a neutral arbiter of the game.

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3 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

It's literally deja vu every year in the NHL, call ridiculous amount of penalties in the regular season to hopefully generate more scoring for fan entertainment, then come playoffs put the whistles away to make it more physical entertainment and close games. I've been calling the NHL a bush league for years for this exact reason, a professional sport that has two different standards for officiating their sport in a year, is a bush league. I say this every year because the same thing happens every year, and it's all on the NHL, they're the ones telling their employees(referees) what to do, that's why you see such a dramatic change in calls. 

 

I haven't watched a whole lot in these series, but yesterday watched a bit of the 2nd period, and saw the incident where Weber and I forget who both got penalties, but watching Weber have his back to the play and the guy tried not once but twice to hit him in the numbers, and they don't bother to call either one, now they're not even trying to protect the players in the league because they want to put the whistles away, that was ridiculous to watch. Especially when a few days ago I caught a bit of the Tampa/Islanders game and Islanders had just tied it up 1-1, play went on after, Tampa dumped the puck behind the Islanders net, Islanders D kind of got into the Tampa forwards path into the Islanders zone small little pick but nothing was coming out of it, the goalie had the puck behind the net it wasn't like the Tampa player was close to the puck, but that was enough for the refs in that game to call the first penalty of the game right after Islanders tied it up in the 2nd period. It was such a soft call, but then you see what's not being called in the Habs Vegas game and it's just a joke imo, hence why the NHL = Bush League.  

 

A league that has rules and standards that they implement throughout a season to let their players know what's acceptable and what's not, to then just be thrown out the window come playoffs is just a slap in the face imo from the NHL to the players playing in their bush run league. 

It was Weber and Nosek, and it was a prime example of the poor, poor state of officiating in the league. 

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2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Frankly Daniel should have snapped and fed Marchand some shots. I think that would have emboldened the Canucks to solider on. Rome's suspension was ridiculous. It was worthy of a game, maybe two, but that was about it. 

 

I do have issue though with Ference getting away with a two handed stick chop to Bieksa's calf, and Boychuk's completely unwarranted attack on Raymond. Those should have both resulted in game misconducts. 

 

The main issues that affected the Canucks chances were Hamhuis deadlifting Lucic (still don't know why he did that), and Malhotra's injury. Losing a top four defenseman, and a third line center who was a faceoff machine was brutal.

I agree. It's funny, because it always reminds me of why I despise Nick Kypreos....after that incident, he mocked Danny on HNIC....

 

Then in 2012, Hank decided to fight back (can't remember who, but it was probably Dustin Brown) and Kypreos was all "Henrik shouldn't do that! It's not his game....", <_<

 

Also completely agree about Hammer and Manny. Those two things, coupled with Kes' pulled groin and injuries to Hank, Ehrhoff and Juice, were just too much to overcome.

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1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I agree. It's funny, because it always reminds me of why I despise Nick Kypreos....after that incident, he mocked Danny on HNIC....

When he looked at the ref and held his hands up, I partially agreed with the sentiment, but at the same time thought, use those hands and feed Marchand some shots back. It's not like he couldn't have as an athlete in peak condition. 

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Then in 2012, Hank decided to fight back (can't remember who, but it was probably Dustin Brown) and Kypreos was all "Henrik shouldn't do that! It's not his game....", <_<

That was a skate by with a glove tap, that Brown couldn't have sold harder. Kypreos is such a clown. 

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Also completely agree about Hammer and Manny. Those two things, coupled with Kes' pulled groin and injuries to Hank, Ehrhoff and Juice, were just too much to overcome.

Edler had two broken fingers too. 

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4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I'm not sure what their impetus is for not calling obvious penalties, but there are too many examples to count of interference and cross checking occurring right in front of their eyes. It's a joke really. I get if a ref is watching the play, and a slash occurs when his back is turned or it happens just outside of his sight line, but to clearly see it occur and not call it. That's farsical. 

Well, coaches are starting to speak up. Cassidy has been pretty vocal about the standard of officiating. Do you think that puts him at odds with Sweeney and Jacobs?

We'll see. I'd love to see a change of direction on that front, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

We've been talking about game management for years and just because a coach or two complains, (and Eliott Friedman) I don't see that as enough to drive a change.

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1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

When he looked at the ref and held his hands up, I partially agreed with the sentiment, but at the same time thought, use those hands and feed Marchand some shots back. It's not like he couldn't have as an athlete in peak condition. 

That was a skate by with a glove tap, that Brown couldn't have sold harder. Kypreos is such a clown. 

Edler had two broken fingers too. 

I knew I was forgetting someone...:lol:

 

Still, I think the injuries were felt most acutely on the PP.

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Just now, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Cheers, even one of the announcers said that's ridiculous and who even knows what a penalty is anymore, or something along those lines. 

My pleasure, Chuck. Yeah, that's another good point. There have been quite a few announcers during games in the past couple of seasons who've made remarks in games about it. Heck I checked The Hockey News, and they have an article or podcast regarding the fact that officiating is the biggest story of the 2021 playoffs.

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25 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I do....but there's a huge difference between catering to your largest market and doing something illegal....fixing professional sporting events is illegal....TSN talking about the Leafs, Jays and TFC, before even mentioning the Habs is not...

And again - you are riding a contradiction - on the one hand the extreme narrative of the "fix" - on the other hand, you yourself "rail against game management"... but it obviously begs the question. 

The underlying 'reality' imo is that there is a consistent problem, a consistent lack of accountability - consistently radically moving goalposts - and a legitimate lack of 'trust' from 'consumers'/fans - online underlined by evidence of influence peddling and manipulation from a person responsible for oversight of officials.  Not sure how much more you need - or why -  but you dismissing it as 'ridiculous' undermines the reasonable expectation that it be improved/changed/addressed.

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22 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think it goes a bit deeper than just the referees refusing to make calls. If the league actually took them all aside and told them "A penalty is a penalty....whether it's in the first period of game one, or OT of game seven. Call it.", I think they would do it...

 

But that's not what the teams want. Owners and GMs have the power to force that change, (Bettman and Daly work for them, after all) but there is no will to do so.

careful - you're sounding 'conspiratorial'. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

We'll see. I'd love to see a change of direction on that front, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

We've been talking about game management for years and just because a coach or two complains, (and Eliott Friedman) I don't see that as enough to drive a change.

For me, just call a penalty, if it happens. Sure it'll slow the game down for a while, but the players will tighten up their game. They'll adjust. 

 

Especially when it comes to violations that are dangerous in nature. It would help to ensure that assclowns like Reaves and Wilson either get in line or get out of the league. I love hitting in hockey and don't want it to be taken out of the game at all. Just try not to kill each other.

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Okay, now that we've established that the refs blow, I'd be interested in what people think about why Montreal is playing Vegas so much more effectively than we did last year.  There doesn't seem to be the same size and speed deficit that we ran into and the territorial play is way more even, and clearly favoured the Habs last night.  Montreal has better roster depth than we did, but I have a hard time putting it down to personnel alone.  Toffoli and Perry aren't the most mobile guys, but they are getting the job done.  Some of it has to be systems and better positional play.  Any thoughts?

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8 minutes ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Okay, now that we've established that the refs blow, I'd be interested in what people think about why Montreal is playing Vegas so much more effectively than we did last year.  There doesn't seem to be the same size and speed deficit that we ran into and the territorial play is way more even, and clearly favoured the Habs last night.  Montreal has better roster depth than we did, but I have a hard time putting it down to personnel alone.  Toffoli and Perry aren't the most mobile guys, but they are getting the job done.  Some of it has to be systems and better positional play.  Any thoughts?

Yes, refs blow. :lol:

 

I think both teams favor a physical game and have the players to make it happen. Vancouver seemed overwhelmed at times by Vegas’ forecheck and their overall team wide physical approach to the games. 
 

Oh and Baumgartner was the primary defensive coach. So the Canucks were screwed from the get go. 

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