Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Will the Canucks ever be able to win the cup without a top three pick?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, R3aL said:

I think you miss understood be and misunderstood the quote.

 

it starts from ownership down. Not JB down.


and I never said it was easy, just like getting a lottery pick isn’t easy. 
 

But it’s most important and hope we will get there.

 

no misunderstanding at all. i was just emphasizing that building a winning culture has been the impetus for most of the moves benning has made, including many that the fanbase tends to shriek about. "omg how is sutter a foundational player LOL"  and whatnot. 

 

people don't know what foundations are for. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

canucks can win the cup, they just need to be more consistent, they play amazing one game, and the next they worse than the worse team in the league

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I would like to agree with you but 43 times out of 45 - it unfortunately did matter.  I can't argue much against FACT !

Of 43 times, how many times were the #3 overall pick a key contributor/main driver?

 

2011: Seguin and Horton weren't main play drivers. Horton barely played, well I guess he did his job of making our defence weaker. So maybe he played a central role. idk.

2008: Brad Stuart. It was Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk not Brad Stuart that won Detroit the cup.

2002: Shanahan? Although an important player, he was not the main reason why they won.

2001: No #3 overall.

1998: Shanahan, similar as 2002.

1997: Shanahan, similar as 2002.

1996: No #3 overall.

1994: Ed Olczyk.

1993: Brian Bellows and Kirk Muller. Well, they won the cup because of certain hall of fame goalie not because of Bellows or Muller.

1990: Simpson and Carson. I guess Simpson was an important player but the driver was Messier. 

1989: No # 3 overall.

1988: Simpson. Not the main play driver.

1987, 1985, 1984: Wayne Gretzky? He was never drafted. They have to cheat and say that he WOULD have gone #1 to make their point? lol

 

Having top 3 pick increases your chance of landing an impactful player but to say that a top 3 pick => cup is just looking for spurious correlation.

 

In fact, if all that matters is having a top 3 pick, let's go and sign Gudbranson as depth defenceman = cup, right?

 

The article may have been more interesting had it been framed as follows.

 

Instead of checking for how many top 3 picks there were, first do a re-draft of every NHL draft. Then, go check how many cup champs have been able to draft the top 3 (or 5) best players.

 

For example, 

 

2014:

1. Draisaitl

2. Pasta

3. Point

 

2011: redraft

1: Kucherov

2: Huberdeau

3: Scheifele

 

2009:

1. Hedman

2. Tavares

 

2008: 

1. Doughty

T2. Pietrangelo/Karlsson/Stamkos

 

So 2020 TBL had drafted Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov, and Kucherov who were all top 5 players in their respective draft years.

 

Go back and check for each of the cup champs.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tas said:

no misunderstanding at all. i was just emphasizing that building a winning culture has been the impetus for most of the moves benning has made, including many that the fanbase tends to shriek about. "omg how is sutter a foundational player LOL"  and whatnot. 

 

people don't know what foundations are for. 

 

 

your response read to me like I didn’t know it’s importance after I shared it.
 

Well fanbase has the right to shriek at times.

 

To me not signing toffoli was a big blunder from ownership down.

 

whether it was ownership dragging their feet with the financial allowance/approval, whether it was the cap planning delay, whether it was just JB not communicating to toffoli a camp letting them know they have to move some money around but our intent is to sign him etc it was a huge blunder.

 

Culture starts with ownership. 
 

and we had a player we gave up 2 assets for, performed, age fit with core, personality fit with core, filled a big need, and notified his agent to get a deal done here and we didn’t even reply or make an offer within a reasonable time frame is outrageous to me.

 

especially since he was available at a beyond reasonable cap and term.

 

Stuff like that is bad business, and has a culture killing affect.

  • Vintage 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And for anyone arguing we need a top 3 pick to win

 

hughes and petey could easily be argued top 3 picks in both their drafts so we have that criteria technically.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, R3aL said:

And for anyone arguing we need a top 3 pick to win

 

hughes and petey could easily be argued top 3 picks in both their drafts so we have that criteria technically.

Yes to Petey.  In your dreams to Hughes.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Stumbled across this interesting story from SportsNet ( https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/can-win-stanley-cup-without-top-3-draft-pick/ )  written just a few years ago "Can you win a Stanley Cup without a Top 3 draft pick?"   which stated  that if you "Go back 45 years, only two teams have won the Stanley Cup without a top-three draft pick on their roster."

 

Based on this FACT, and given that the Canucks have no 1st thru 3rd first round picks on the team even though we have  a few good players and potentially a few others coming up,   would you assume that we should patiently wait and hope that all those up & comers are able to lead us to the promised land  - OR - do you believe in that theory above and suggest that we sacrifice one or more of our top assets and try and snag a top 1st-3rd player (if available) ?

 

I think the Canucks can do this.  
 

-Pettersson and Hughes are basically the equivalent of top 3 picks.

-Horvat is the equivalent of a 5th overall

-Demko *might* be considered a 7-10 pick in a few years after he continues to flash his brilliance (as I suspect that he will)

-Boeser enters the top 10

-Hoglander enters the 1st round as well.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, R3aL said:

your response read to me like I didn’t know it’s importance after I shared it.
 

Well fanbase has the right to shriek at times.

 

To me not signing toffoli was a big blunder from ownership down.

 

whether it was ownership dragging their feet with the financial allowance/approval, whether it was the cap planning delay, whether it was just JB not communicating to toffoli a camp letting them know they have to move some money around but our intent is to sign him etc it was a huge blunder.

 

Culture starts with ownership. 
 

and we had a player we gave up 2 assets for, performed, age fit with core, personality fit with core, filled a big need, and notified his agent to get a deal done here and we didn’t even reply or make an offer within a reasonable time frame is outrageous to me.

 

especially since he was available at a beyond reasonable cap and term.

 

Stuff like that is bad business, and has a culture killing affect.

Haven’t you noticed or seen the winning culture; regardless, I am still hopeful cause of the young core and Shaws additions (based on the great interview) - but who knows ?

Edited by ShawnAntoski
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I think the Canucks can do this.  
 

-Pettersson and Hughes are basically the equivalent of top 3 picks.

-Horvat is the equivalent of a 5th overall

-Demko *might* be considered a 7-10 pick in a few years after he continues to flash his brilliance (as I suspect that he will)

-Boeser enters the top 10

-Hoglander enters the 1st round as well.  

With your context it always matters who is making the pick but having a higher pick just ensures the chances that JB gets his pick(s) without having to settle or pay any assets to move up.

  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Haven’t you noticed or seen the winning culture; regardless, I am still hopeful cause of the young core and Shaws additions (based on the great interview) - but who knows ?

We are trying to create it for sure. Haven’t gotten there yet though and it hasn’t been a perfect journey but we are on our way

 

boeser petey and horvat specifically are winners. And I’m very excited about the coaching addition and the chance for our defense to bounce back. As I do believe our team defense drastically under performed and will be much better in comparison next year 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2021 at 6:22 AM, Alflives said:

How come we didn’t win the Cup with #3OA Erik Gudbranson dominating play for us?  

That doesn't count   he had sore knuckles from beating people  up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, R3aL said:

We are trying to create it for sure. Haven’t gotten there yet though and it hasn’t been a perfect journey but we are on our way

 

boeser petey and horvat specifically are winners. And I’m very excited about the coaching addition and the chance for our defense to bounce back. As I do believe our team defense drastically under performed and will be much better in comparison next year 

I get it and hope you're right (?).   I agree, that there are things to be excited about: the emergence of EP & the other young core and the addition of Shaw seems to be much a needed addition to a still evolving staff.    Hoping for a very shrewd approach in the offseason and let see how next season turns our with Shaw as an associate coach to Green cause the roster tweaking is/are about to start - fingers crossed.

Edited by ShawnAntoski
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Of course if Aqua-Lini dumps Green or Uncle Jim, that would technically qualify as a Pseudo top three pick.    Thanks for pointing out the obvious solution to all our problems!

your welcome Captain Obvious

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I get it and hope you're right (?).   I agree, that there are things to be excited about: the emergence of EP & the other young core; and the addition of Shaw seems to be much a needed addition to a still evolving staff.    Hoping for a very shrewd approach in the offseason and let see how next season turns our with Shaw as an associate coach to Green - lets see if how next season turns out cause the roster tweaking are about to start.

I’m kinda holding my breath for the roster moves this offseason since the season after is where we get the space but hoping for the best! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Yes to Petey.  In your dreams to Hughes.

In my dreams?

 

who right now is better in that draft?

 

Svechnikov and Tkachuk are the best forwards taken.

 

kotkaniemi, Hayton, Zadina I would not take over Hughes.

 

Dahlin is struggling and degressing in toxic Buffalo so today I would not trade Hughes 1

for 1 with him even though in draft day I take Dahlin at 1 with no hesitation. 
 

Ty Smith is the only other dman id even consider and yes he’s looking good and more well rounded than Quinn but I wouldn’t trade a Quinn for him.

 

So Q is top 3 for me and probably at least top 5 in majority of people’s re drafts. Not sure how that would be in my dreams like it’s a huge stretch.

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.si.com/hockey/.amp/news/redoing-the-2018-nhl-draft-how-would-it-unfold-two-years-later

 

  • Like 1
  • Hydration 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I’m kinda holding my breath for the roster moves this offseason since the season after is where we get the space but hoping for the best! 

Yeah, plus next years draft seems to have some players that might be worth it to take - if next season, is a losing season.  

Edited by ShawnAntoski
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...