[Rumour] Friedman: Dougie Hamilton given permission to talk to other teams re: sign and trade

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I’d love to have Dougie Hamilton on my team, but unfortunately, my team is the Vancouver Canucks, and that team has some significant work to do before it would by able to make the most of an addition like Hamilton.

 

Hamilton is most effective playing with an elite or near elite two-way defenseman as his partner. Specifically, he needs to play with an aggressive defender who excels at recoveries. And that player also needs the 200ft defensive conscience to cover for Hamilton, when he roams, so that Dougie is free to just do his thing offensively. That partner also needs to be adept at making a quick first pass, to feed Hamilton and let him rush the puck up ice.
 

The Canucks just don’t have that partner for Hamilton.

 

Quinn Hughes definitely isn’t that player.

 

Alex Edler might have been, if he were five years younger.

 

And maybe one of Juolevi, or even Rathbone (he’s not there yet, but his two-way game is underrated, in terms of potential, and I expect him to develop into not just an offensive Dman but also a fine defensive player, and one who can play an aggressive game and excel on the recovery side), might become that player, if they were 3-5 years older, and their development over those years went as well as could be hoped.

 

Nate Schmidt is maybe the closest option, right now, but he’s far from an ideal fit. I think there’s a chance he’d actually work with Hamilton, but that’s a big bet to make, and not one I’d have great confidence making. I wouldn’t count Schmidtty out, but I wouldn’t bank on it either.

 

So, we don’t have the ideal partner for Hamilton right now. Most likely, that’s a player we’d need to acquire. And we already need to be finding a partner (ideally long term) for Hughes (unless Hamonic can fill that role), so it’s a tall order to find two supporting players, and of high quality, to partner both Hamilton and Hughes.

 

Especially given our cap situation right now.

 

Could a defence be built with a top-4 anchored by Hamilton (on one pairing) and Hughes (on another), with both of those weapons supported by defensively responsible players who also have two-way acumen and can defend and move the puck and support the offence, while playing alongside two rather unique, elite, offensive defensemen? Yes, of course. With the right partners, a top-4 with Hughes and Hamilton would be amazing to watch. Potentially one of the most dangerous, and effective, top-4 defences in the entire league.

 

Could we build that kind of top-4 for next year?

 

I seriously doubt it.

 

Much as I’d love to have Hamilton here, I just don’t see the Canucks at the stage right now to make it work. We’re not in a financial spot where the monies really make sense under the cap. And we’re not nearly deep enough organizationally to be able to spend assets on trades that don’t necessarily fix some of our more pressing and immediate issues.
 

Plus, we’re not contending, yet, and may not for some time. Adding Hamilton only really makes sense if he’s going to take us over the top, and be that final piece in building an elite team.

 

We have lots of other issues to address first.

 

Still, if Dougie somehow gets to free agency, and it’s just a signing (versus spending assets on a sign and trade), I wouldn’t be against JB chasing this specific big fish. Hamilton is a heck of a player, and value him highly. And maybe Benning finds a way to make the other changes necessary to make it all work. I can think of worse ideas than building around Hughes and Hamilton on the back end. But it’s going to take another two players, most likely both of them not already here (with all respect to Hamonic), to really optimize that kind of top-4, and that’s a pretty tough task, especially when we’re already dealing with cap issues, and limited resources for trades.

 

Fun to think about, but probably that’s as far as it goes.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[wallstreetamigo]

10 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I’d love to have Dougie Hamilton on my team, but unfortunately, my team is the Vancouver Canucks, and that team has some significant work to do before it would by able to make the most of an addition like Hamilton.

 

Hamilton is most effective playing with an elite or near elite two-way defenseman as his partner. Specifically, he needs to play with an aggressive defender who excels at recoveries. And that player also needs the 200ft defensive conscience to cover for Hamilton, when he roams, so that Dougie is free to just do his thing offensively. That partner also needs to be adept at making a quick first pass, to feed Hamilton and let him rush the puck up ice.
 

The Canucks just don’t have that partner for Hamilton.

 

Quinn Hughes definitely isn’t that player.

 

Alex Edler might have been, if he were five years younger.

 

And maybe one of Juolevi, or even Rathbone (he’s not there yet, but his two-way game is underrated, in terms of potential, and I expect him to develop into not just an offensive Dman but also a fine defensive player, and one who can play an aggressive game and excel on the recovery side), might become that player, if they were 3-5 years older, and their development over those years went as well as could be hoped.

 

Nate Schmidt is maybe the closest option, right now, but he’s far from an ideal fit. I think there’s a chance he’d actually work with Hamilton, but that’s a big bet to make, and not one I’d have great confidence making. I wouldn’t count Schmidtty out, but I wouldn’t bank on it either.

 

So, we don’t have the ideal partner for Hamilton right now. Most likely, that’s a player we’d need to acquire. And we already need to be finding a partner (ideally long term) for Hughes (unless Hamonic can fill that role), so it’s a tall order to find two supporting players, and of high quality, to partner both Hamilton and Hughes.

 

Especially given our cap situation right now.

 

Could a defence be built with a top-4 anchored by Hamilton (on one pairing) and Hughes (on another), with both of those weapons supported by defensively responsible players who also have two-way acumen and can defend and move the puck and support the offence, while playing alongside two rather unique, elite, offensive defensemen? Yes, of course. With the right partners, a top-4 with Hughes and Hamilton would be amazing to watch. Potentially one of the most dangerous, and effective, top-4 defences in the entire league.

 

Could we build that kind of top-4 for next year?

 

I seriously doubt it.

 

Much as I’d love to have Hamilton here, I just don’t see the Canucks at the stage right now to make it work. We’re not in a financial spot where the monies really make sense under the cap. And we’re not nearly deep enough organizationally to be able to spend assets on trades that don’t necessarily fix some of our more pressing and immediate issues.
 

Plus, we’re not contending, yet, and may not for some time. Adding Hamilton only really makes sense if he’s going to take us over the top, and be that final piece in building an elite team.

 

We have lots of other issues to address first.

 

Still, if Dougie somehow gets to free agency, and it’s just a signing (versus spending assets on a sign and trade), I wouldn’t be against JB chasing this specific big fish. Hamilton is a heck of a player, and value him highly. And maybe Benning finds a way to make the other changes necessary to make it all work. I can think of worse ideas than building around Hughes and Hamilton on the back end. But it’s going to take another two players, most likely both of them not already here (with all respect to Hamonic), to really optimize that kind of top-4, and that’s a pretty tough task, especially when we’re already dealing with cap issues, and limited resources for trades.

 

Fun to think about, but probably that’s as far as it goes.

 

 

Absolutely perfect summary of the situation Sid. 

 

I dont see the Canucks making it work without big changes and sacrifices elsewhere on the roster.

[IBatch]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:36 PM, Alflives said:

True.  Hamilton would certainly make us better.  But at what cost?  First there's the cost to get him in trade.  Then there's his contract.  I don't think we can afford him.  

There is a path.   We trade Schmidt for him.   And we trade QHs for Chychrun or something like that... that's a >> improvement now ... later on who knows. 

 

OJ Hamilton could be dynamite who knows.   Hamilton has turned into a top five two-way RHD.    A lot more would have to happen to this team over the next two years to maximize something like this.   A lot more has to happen keeping things the way they are too.   Hamilton/Chychrun/Myers would be one of the better R sides in the league...

Edited June 16, 2021 by IBatch

[JM_]

12 hours ago, aGENT said:

We have SOME cap. We could pull off a move like this. Plus it seems Benning has 'something' up his sleeve (Louie retiring? Already 'made' a deal to move some?).

 

But I agree, we'd likely need to at least be sending Roussel back in the suggested Reinhart-9th deal.

 

Really it's quite hard to armchair any of this with so little information on what is likely to happen though.

it really is a toughie. As far as Louie goes, I listened to his agent on the Donne and Dhali show yesterday and when Loui's future was brought up he laughed  so pretty sure no retirement is happening there, he's going to syphon off every last dime of that contract. I don't know how the guy can not feel some kind of shame but it is what it is.

 

For me if we're actually going to move the 9th this year it has to be in a deal that takes this cap off our books, otherwise I'd just rather wait Loui out and keep the pick. 

[IBatch]

47 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it really is a toughie. As far as Louie goes, I listened to his agent on the Donne and Dhali show yesterday and when Loui's future was brought up he laughed  so pretty sure no retirement is happening there, he's going to syphon off every last dime of that contract. I don't know how the guy can not feel some kind of shame but it is what it is.

 

For me if we're actually going to move the 9th this year it has to be in a deal that takes this cap off our books, otherwise I'd just rather wait Loui out and keep the pick. 

We aren't good enough yet to not keep stacking the cupboards.   I'd give this team next year to make the playoffs and show they belong once they get there.   If we don't then it's time to re-set the rebuild around guys BB and younger.    Would trade Miller for sure, what we paid would come back and more, and hate to say this, consider trading one of Horvat or BB even.    That's what COL did with Duchene and Barrie.   Don't expect a treasure trove like they got, they were extremely lucky given what happened to OTT.   But do think we could fill a big hole like they did with Kadri, and end up with at least two blue chippers in the pipe, plus one or two tweeners with upside.     

 

Im hoping we don't have to go there, but would rather we keep rebuilding and come out a contender rather then just a middling team.    Feel we need the playoffs to find out if the bubble was a fluke as well.  I loved those series for various reasons.   Beating MIN was no small thing, a top three defensive team at the time ... beating St. Louis was awesome.    Vegas showed us we aren't even close yet.  

 

We do have some great pieces in Demko, EP, BB, QHs, Horvat and Miller for sure.    Maybe i'm being rash in thinking next season "or else" - it's going to come down to the next wave of guys like Hogs, Podz, OJ, Rathbone etc.   We need more prospects to keep this going.    We could end up with one of the worst pools on the league and stuck in the mushy middle.   Or worse.   A 14-15th worst team, miss the playoffs and have no hope of getting out of it.    It would have to be one heck of a player to trade the 9th and dump one year of LE.   

 

Feel the fans have suffered enough with that contract as has the team but it's only one more season.   Put him in AHL and take our lumps.   Johnson or McTavish is a lot of potential lost for 5 extra million.    Return better be better then Cory Schneider ( he was very good for the first few years for NJ).  

[JM_]

24 minutes ago, IBatch said:

We aren't good enough yet to not keep stacking the cupboards.   I'd give this team next year to make the playoffs and show they belong once they get there.   If we don't then it's time to re-set the rebuild around guys BB and younger.    Would trade Miller for sure, what we paid would come back and more, and hate to say this, consider trading one of Horvat or BB even.    That's what COL did with Duchene and Barrie.   Don't expect a treasure trove like they got, they were extremely lucky given what happened to OTT.   But do think we could fill a big hole like they did with Kadri, and end up with at least two blue chippers in the pipe, plus one or two tweeners with upside.     

 

Im hoping we don't have to go there, but would rather we keep rebuilding and come out a contender rather then just a middling team.    Feel we need the playoffs to find out if the bubble was a fluke as well.  I loved those series for various reasons.   Beating MIN was no small thing, a top three defensive team at the time ... beating St. Louis was awesome.    Vegas showed us we aren't even close yet.  

 

We do have some great pieces in Demko, EP, BB, QHs, Horvat and Miller for sure.    Maybe i'm being rash in thinking next season "or else" - it's going to come down to the next wave of guys like Hogs, Podz, OJ, Rathbone etc.   We need more prospects to keep this going.    We could end up with one of the worst pools on the league and stuck in the mushy middle.   Or worse.   A 14-15th worst team, miss the playoffs and have no hope of getting out of it.    It would have to be one heck of a player to trade the 9th and dump one year of LE.   

 

Feel the fans have suffered enough with that contract as has the team but it's only one more season.   Put him in AHL and take our lumps.   Johnson or McTavish is a lot of potential lost for 5 extra million.    Return better be better then Cory Schneider ( he was very good for the first few years for NJ).  

agreed with all of that. If Jim uses the 9th just for someone like Risto I'll be cheesed off. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

We need more prospects to keep this going.    We could end up with one of the worst pools on the league and stuck in the mushy middle.   Or worse.   A 14-15th worst team, miss the playoffs and have no hope of getting out of it. 

I think we've still got a couple years of finishing in the 10-20 pick/bubble playoff range as we come out of the rebuild.

 

I'm fine with that personally. There's still very good players found there. Is anyone going to complain about Jim and co finding the next Ty Smith/McAvoy/K'andre Miller/Caufield/Farabee etc there?

[IBatch]

50 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think we've still got a couple years of finishing in the 10-20 pick/bubble playoff range as we come out of the rebuild.

 

I'm fine with that personally. There's still very good players found there. Is anyone going to complain about Jim and co finding the next Ty Smith/McAvoy/K'andre Miller/Caufield/Farabee etc there?

If JB can keep it up we are in the catbirds seat.   Why i don't want to trade our pick this year.   I think the time to make major moves is possibly the following off season.   That's when taking stock will for sure matter.  I'm cautiously optimistic what we still have in the pool can come in and take over support placeholder roles and play on par or better then them.   That's massive for the teams cap situation.    And also realistic in both QHs and EPs career arc, both should eventually have a breakout year, it might not be dramatic, but it will happen just like BB this year with his first half all around play and Horvat once his speed caught up. 

 

Have serious concerns about our D but willing to wait and see before getting too worried about it.    When the team is playing well we have already shown we can do it (last two years).  

 

Look forward to next season a lot for a variety of reasons, will be very exciting to see OJ, Podz, Rathbone, maybe Gads and a few new faces plus our core and see what they can manage.   Only takes a couple of theses guys to get to the next level and we should be fine.   

 

Drafting will remain a key metric over the next two years, after that ... time to make some trades be it futures (picks/prospects) or even a core player or two.   I include Miller in that.   Clock is ticking for both him and Horvat.   Either way we are trending up which is a good thing.    

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If JB can keep it up we are in the catbirds seat.   Why i don't want to trade our pick this year.

Yup, we need to keep picking more winners than not, once we're in that +/- #15 pick range.

 

I probably prefer hanging on to #9OA as well... but I'm ok moving it if it's a clear win, for a +/- 22 YO guy, in our core's age group, with RFA club control and less development risk.

 

Otherwise I keep the pick IMO.

 

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I think the time to make major moves is possibly the following off season.   That's when taking stock will for sure matter.

Generally agree. But with the ED, if we can add a Mayfield or a Foote etc (or equivalent forward), I hope we do. And I'd consider those relatively 'major moves'. Or even better, my unlikely, proposed Dobson trade 

 

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm cautiously optimistic what we still have in the pool can come in and take over support placeholder roles and play on par or better then them.   That's massive for the teams cap situation.  

Agree. I think with Podkolzin coming, guys like Juolevi, Rathbone, even Woo plus potential bottom 6 guys like Lockwood, Gadj and even guys like Costmar, Zlodoyev, McLeod etc we've got lots of potential depth/support pieces that a few should hit... And we'll continue to add more of them with future drafts as well.

 

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

 And also realistic in both QHs and EPs career arc, both should eventually have a breakout year, it might not be dramatic, but it will happen just like BB this year with his first half all around play and Horvat once his speed caught up. 

Yup, until this year, when Boeser took a step, Bo was our only truly playoff ready guy, of the new core. Petey and Hughes are likely still another 2 years from that point. Demko is borderline/arguably there as well I suppose.

 

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Have serious concerns about our D but willing to wait and see before getting too worried about it.    When the team is playing well we have already shown we can do it (last two years).  

Major work in progress, I agree haha. Rome wasn't built in a day We'll see what Jim can pull off this summer (Mayfield? Foote? Etc) and then next year there's potentially some exceedingly good fits for us as UFA's, and we have cap space opening up. Kind of a perfect storm. If we can trade for a solid, young 2nd pair guy for cheap this summer and add a legit top pair guy next summer... We're laughing on D IMO.

 

Then hopefully find a Ty Smith/McAvoy/K'andre Miller in the draft the next couple years to take over for Myers/Schmidt as they age out.

 

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Look forward to next season a lot for a variety of reasons, will be very exciting to see OJ, Podz, Rathbone, maybe Gads and a few new faces plus our core and see what they can manage.   Only takes a couple of theses guys to get to the next level and we should be fine.   

Yup, I'm excited to see who enters from that secondary group as well!

 

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Drafting will remain a key metric over the next two years, after that ... time to make some trades be it futures (picks/prospects) or even a core player or two.   I include Miller in that.   Clock is ticking for both him and Horvat.   Either way we are trending up which is a good thing.    

Yup, we can't likely keep both long term. I'm hoping Horvat is our 'Landeskog' but unless Miller wants to re-up at a sweetheart cap/term...I think he's likely recycled in to futures as you note.

 

 

[oldnews]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:54 PM, Jimmy McGill said:

to be fair to Dougie, he's been good away from Slavin too: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=CAR&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-01-13&td=2021-05-19&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8476958&p2=8476462&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0

 

and Gio: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20172018&thruseason=20172018&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=CGY&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2017-10-04&td=2020-04-04&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8476462&p2=8470966&p3=0&p4=0&p5=0

 

but how would he do with a rookie Juolevi? likely not so well. 

meh. 

what I see there is that when they don't play together, Hamilton's ice is tilted even more (+5% ozone starts) - while Slavin's dips into shutdown minutes (35.9%)...

[oldnews]

On 6/14/2021 at 3:36 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

 

I thought you'd agreed to go your own way.

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

meh. 

what I see there is that when they don't play together, Hamilton's ice is tilted even more (+5% ozone starts) - while Slavin's dips into shutdown minutes (35.9%)...

true, he does get a lot of that time. There's other players I'd want here a lot more for the 8 mil or so he'll probably get.