wallstreetamigo Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, Aladeen said: How come being on an inferior team excuses away Dahlin's shortcomings but Hughes' defensive woes are all on him? Dahlin being dragged down by buffalo but Hughes dragging down Vancouver? Wut? When did I excuse away his shortcomings? Dahlin has work to do as well. Its not all because he is on Buffalo. And Hughes struggles defensively are not all because he is on Vancouver. And Makar being a superior player (imo) is not only because he plays on a better team in Col. I have never said being on a better or worse team doesnt impact your stats or your effectiveness. I have simply said it isnt as big a factor as people here claim to build up Hughes and slag on Makar or Dahlin. With Hughes, he may play on a crappy team but he still gets prime offensive opportunity with the best players. All 3 are great young players. If given the choice Hughes would be 3rd pick of them to me. Others can disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: My point is they arent neck and neck. Not even close. And if they played for opposite teams they still wouldnt be. Makar has really improved in both zones. Hughes has not yet. He regressed defensively this past season actually. Both are good young players and will get better. But Makar - at this point - is quite clearly the superior dman and its not as close as people want to think. So you Genuinely think if they changed teams it would be the same thing Makar would’ve shown the same improvements and Hughes would’ve shown the same regressions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 21 minutes ago, Provost said: Sure it could be... but I don't see any advantage like you mentioned with it being better for it to be the partner for Hughes. We likely have a built in partner for Hughes in Hamonic who should be under market value. We don't particularly need to get a 25+ minute a night top pairing D who also plays all the PK... they are just hard to come by. If we get the top pairing PKer... he still needs to have a partner to play with and looking at our roster that is either Myers or Schmidt right now... so how does that get us ahead? The other guys I mentioned in Zadorov and Ristolainen are "relatively" cheap guys who are possibly available and would be an immediate upgrade on PK.... both Schmidt and Myers are competent PKers, but could certainly stand to be improved a lot on. Unless we get two replacements we can't get them both off the PK. Ideally we would want to get a new partner for Hughes and new partner for Schmidt. Those 2 guys could be our #1 PK unit. Then Myers and either Juolevi or Rathbone run the 2nd unit PK. So Benning really needs to acquire 2 Dmen this summer unless he plans on re-signing both Edler and Hamonic. Re-signing one of those guys is a real possibility, I'm hoping he just doesn't re-sign both as I'd like to see some new additions to the D coprp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: When did I excuse away his shortcomings? Dahlin has work to do as well. Its not all because he is on Buffalo. And Hughes struggles defensively are not all because he is on Vancouver. And Makar being a superior player (imo) is not only because he plays on a better team in Col. I have never said being on a better or worse team doesnt impact your stats or your effectiveness. I have simply said it isnt as big a factor as people here claim to build up Hughes and slag on Makar or Dahlin. With Hughes, he may play on a crappy team but he still gets prime offensive opportunity with the best players. All 3 are great young players. If given the choice Hughes would be 3rd pick of them to me. Others can disagree. Swap Makar and Hughes' teams this year and for sure you would be singing a different tune. Makar is not the defensive stalwart you make him out to be. A lot of the errors made by Colorado to close out their playoffs were directly a result of his missed assignments, or being out of position, or him trying to do too much. All the same knocks against Hughes. You make it sound like Makar is leaps and bounds ahead of Hughes but you do need to factor in the team and an extra year of development and still Makar was making those mistakes. Making those mistakes consistently on a team where Colorado is at and those errors aren't realized since they are generally covered by depth, but where the Canucks are at in their rebuild and with the impacted season they've had, and those errors end up in the back of the net. At this point yes Makar is better but you make it sound like anyone who even makes a comparison is just a Homer with zero merit whatsoever. It's closer than stat sheet perusing would imply IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dats hockey said: So you Genuinely think if they changed teams it would be the same thing Makar would’ve shown the same improvements and Hughes would’ve shown the same regressions? Too many other factors so hard to say really. Coaching is abig factor in that. Exactly the same? No. Fundamentally the same? Quite possibly actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: When did I excuse away his shortcomings? Dahlin has work to do as well. Its not all because he is on Buffalo. And Hughes struggles defensively are not all because he is on Vancouver. And Makar being a superior player (imo) is not only because he plays on a better team in Col. I have never said being on a better or worse team doesnt impact your stats or your effectiveness. I have simply said it isnt as big a factor as people here claim to build up Hughes and slag on Makar or Dahlin. With Hughes, he may play on a crappy team but he still gets prime offensive opportunity with the best players. All 3 are great young players. If given the choice Hughes would be 3rd pick of them to me. Others can disagree. Sorry never answered your question: 2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Playing on a worse team doesnt necessarily change the fundamentals of a player though. - In regards to Hughes It might impact their results since hockey is, of course, a team game. But elite players are still elite. People constantly dismiss elite level players on other teams. While simultaneously over rating Canucks players. 42 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: This is all I am saying. And I agree on all points. People seem to be saying I think Hughes is garbage. I dont. The black or white approach isnt where I come from. Makar and Heiskanen at this point can be progressing and far more well rounded and better overall players than Hughes without it meaning Hughes is garbage or can never improve. Those things arent mutually exclusive. Dahlin is getting dragged down being in Buffalo for sure. But people on here are dragging down his potential for no other reason than because they think it builds up Hughes. Same with Makar, etc. It doesnt change anything about Hughes deficienceies to try to minimize other dmen. They all have their weaknesses too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Aladeen said: Swap Makar and Hughes' teams this year and for sure you would be singing a different tune. Makar is not the defensive stalwart you make him out to be. A lot of the errors made by Colorado to close out their playoffs were directly a result of his missed assignments, or being out of position, or him trying to do too much. All the same knocks against Hughes. You make it sound like Makar is leaps and bounds ahead of Hughes but you do need to factor in the team and an extra year of development and still Makar was making those mistakes. Making those mistakes consistently on a team where Colorado is at and those errors aren't realized since they are generally covered by depth, but where the Canucks are at in their rebuild and with the impacted season they've had, and those errors end up in the back of the net. At this point yes Makar is better but you make it sound like anyone who even makes a comparison is just a Homer with zero merit whatsoever. It's closer than stat sheet perusing would imply IMO. No I wouldnt actually. I never said Makar was stellar defensively. I said he is progressing quite nicely on the defensive side without it impacting his offensive play. Hughes has not progressed yet. People can make a comparison. Nothing wrong with that. But compare the actual players realistically. Dont say they are pretty much equals based on a bunch of excuses like their team, or their partner, etc. that have little to do with their own progression in their own game. Hughes being on a $&!#tier team doesnt make him better and Makar worse than they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Aladeen said: Sorry never answered your question: Getting dragged down by people on CDC, not dragged down in his own play simply because he plays on a crappy team. I dont agree he is a bust like CDC does to pump up Hughes. I dont think he has played that badly actually. As I said in your quote, it has an impact but it isnt something that should be used to inflate one player and denigrate another. You can play on a crappy team and still be given prime offensive opportunity with the best players. Like Hughes. Edited June 14, 2021 by wallstreetamigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: No I wouldnt actually. I never said Makar was stellar defensively. I said he is progressing quite nicely on the defensive side without it impacting his offensive play. Hughes has not progressed yet. People can make a comparison. Nothing wrong with that. But compare the actual players realistically. Dont say they are pretty much equals based on a bunch of excuses like their team, or their partner, etc. that have little to do with their own progression in their own game. Hughes being on a $&!#tier team doesnt make him better and Makar worse than they are. Hughes being on a $&!#tier team makes him not as good as Hughes on the best team in the league. Makar being on the best team in the league makes him better than Makar on a bottom feeder team struck with Covid19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: Getting dragged down by people on CDC, not dragged down in his own play simply because he plays on a crappy team. I dont agree he is a bust like CDC does to pump up Hughes. I dont think he has played that badly actually. ok my mistake I misunderstood your comment there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Aladeen said: ok my mistake I misunderstood your comment there. Looking back I understand why you took it that way actually. I worded it totally wrong and would have made the same assumption tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Aladeen said: Hughes being on a $&!#tier team makes him not as good as Hughes on the best team in the league. Makar being on the best team in the league makes him better than Makar on a bottom feeder team struck with Covid19. To some degree maybe. Does it make them equal players in a direct comparison simply based on that? My opinion is no, not at all. Makar is still a much better overall player to me. This approach completely ignores the players progress individually. Edited June 14, 2021 by wallstreetamigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 So how bout that Dougie Hamilton guy, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Once you wear that greasy north texas flaming C on the chest, Your services can kick rocks. Pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: To some degree maybe. Does it make them equal players in a direct comparison simply based on that? My opinion is no, not at all. Makar is still a much better overall player to me. This approach completely ignores the players progress individually. I can agree to Makar being better. I think the only sticking point is the much part in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: So how bout that Dougie Hamilton guy, eh? Be nice but nah for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, Bertuzzipunch said: Be nice but nah for me Agreed. Doesn't exactly fit the team need and the contract would probably be one hell of an anchor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Agreed. Doesn't exactly fit the team need and the contract would probably be one hell of an anchor. And the possible assets it would take in a trade. We aint that wealthy for this deal. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 52 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: So how bout that Dougie Hamilton guy, eh? Who? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 55 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said: Once you wear that greasy north texas flaming C on the chest, Your services can kick rocks. Pass Travis Hamonic says hi lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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