[Discussion] Pesce(Car) or Jones(Clb) to Vancouver

[86Viking]

Hughes needs a stable RHD D partner, why don't we try to pry Brett Pesce from Carolina or the big fish Seth Jones from Columbus?

 

Pesce turns 27 in November and has 3 years at just over 4m per season left. Reason I see Carolina moving him is that they want to sign and keep offensive RHD Hamilton. Leaving them still with a good D core and easier protection maybe from Seattle? Pesce won't come cheap but we need to improve our D in a big way.

 

The big fish is Seth Jones who turns 27 next year too but is in the last year of his 5.4m deal and is a pending UFA after the season. Way more risk making a trade for him unless he comes with an extension, plus it will cost more to acquire him and more to retain him on his new deal. But a Hughes Jones pairing could be one of the leagues best D pairs, especially in the offensive end. I will be honest, I don't watch the Blue Jackets, so no idea how Jones is in the D zone but coach Shaw sure would!

 

To get either of these guys it will cost us, many will mention #9 overall, especially in a Jones deal. I also think Schmidt or JT Miller would interest both teams too. Young ELC prospects teams might be of interest & could include Lind, OJ, Dipietro or Gadjovich etc. Columbus needs a C after moving Dubois and JT can play that spot, maybe not the best overall at it but quite good at faceoffs. Schmidt is a decent top 4D, if we can move him for someone a bit younger I would like that, especially for a natural RHD. I am also fine with him staying and seeing what he can do this upcoming season for us, but his salary might make him a moveable asset still so should be considered.

 

Canucks need to improve the D core and need to clear cap space to do it, that will mean GM JB needs to be Aggressive. He will have to include something good to move out salary or include in a trade to improve the Canucks. Lure Seattle or another team to take 1 of LE/Holtby/Myers as that gives us some big cap relief. LE being the hardest to move but might be easier once we pay the signing bonus. Then we could retain salary, so he could be had for as low as a 3m cap hit but far less in actual salary, especially at TDL.

 

I am 100% Anti buyout this off season for any Canuck, no need to tie more dead cap space to this team going forward, have we not seen what doing that causes already! Time to Learn from Previous Mistakes and NOT keep putting dead cap space on our team. If JB doesn't do much this off season he could be out of a job next season. So be BOLD and make waves this off season as you might be out of a job soon enough Jim if your not careful!?

 

Personally, I try for Pesce and Reinhart this off season. Jones would be a nice get but there is risk about if he will sign an extension as part of the trade or if he is still set on testing FA, which is a huge risk for the Canucks to trade for him WITHOUT one. Could wait till July 1st 2022, see if RHD like Jones, Parayko, Ristolainen are available

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Pesce would be a fantastic addition. He would fit this team like a glove.

 

Seth Jones would be amazing, but that's more than likely a pipe dream. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Zero chance Seattle bites on LE unless we add our 1st round pick.  You see who owns Seattle?  They ain't buying value meals off of McDonalds for lunch anytime soon.  Add a garbage contract like LE (even with his much lower salary than cap hit - which as I said, isn't that relevant given just how deep the pockets the Kraken owners have) hinders Seattle's ability to compete that first year. They, I assume, want to make a good impression early (as do most expansion teams). To a lesser extent, another garbage contract like Holtby ain't going to help Seattle compete, except for a lottery pick.

Edited June 16, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[86Viking]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Zero chance Seattle bites on LE unless we add our 1st round pick.  You see who owns Seattle?  They ain't buying value meals off of McDonalds for lunch anytime soon.  Add a garbage contract like LE (even with his much lower salary than cap hit - which as I said, isn't that relevant given just how deep the pockets the Kraken owners have) hinders Seattle's ability to compete that first year. They, I assume, want to make a good impression early (as do most expansion teams). To a lesser extent, another garbage contract like Holtby ain't going to help Seattle compete, except for a lottery pick.

Well, unless I missed JB being fired and Dubas being hired as GM I don't think JB is that stupid to give a 9th overall pick for 1 season of cap relief on LE. We have suffered 5 years might as well wait 1 more, or as I would do wait till July 1 and pay his signing bonus then include him in a deal...high cap hit still at 6m but a salary of 5m that the Canucks could then retain on OR better yet pull of one of those 3 team deals, like how the Laffs acquired Foligno at a low price by first having him dealt to SJ with the Sharks and Columbus retaining Foligno's salary.

[86Viking]

12 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Pesce would be a fantastic addition. He would fit this team like a glove.

 

Seth Jones would be amazing, but that's more than likely a pipe dream. 

Agreed, but will JB make an offer good enough for either team to bite is the question!?

[mll]

Don't see why Carolina would trade Pesce.  Their window is open now and he's on a fantastic deal.  He just played 27 minutes a night in the post-season.  

[Chickenspear]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Don't see why Carolina would trade Pesce.  Their window is open now and he's on a fantastic deal.  He just played 27 minutes a night in the post-season.  

[NewbieCanuckFan]

54 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Well, unless I missed JB being fired and Dubas being hired as GM I don't think JB is that stupid to give a 9th overall pick for 1 season of cap relief on LE. We have suffered 5 years might as well wait 1 more, or as I would do wait till July 1 and pay his signing bonus then include him in a deal...high cap hit still at 6m but a salary of 5m that the Canucks could then retain on OR better yet pull of one of those 3 team deals, like how the Laffs acquired Foligno at a low price by first having him dealt to SJ with the Sharks and Columbus retaining Foligno's salary.

I wasn't suggesting JB doing that.   I was suggesting that the Kraken GM has other concerns than merely reaching the cap floor at a cheap price.  Again, look at who the owners of the Seattle franchise are.  It ain't Melnyk.

 

Why would Seattle, a team they will have to compete with (division rival) do us any favors but freeing up six million in cap space?  That will come at a price.  A price that will be too high for the Canucks to pay period.  It's like asking Edler to waive his NTC.  

Edited June 16, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Don't see why Carolina would trade Pesce.  Their window is open now and he's on a fantastic deal.  He just played 27 minutes a night in the post-season.  

I am well aware, but maybe they like the offense that hamilton brings and if they lose that from their back end it may impact the team in a greater way. It is a long shot, but Pesce or Mayfield would be great defense first type D for Hughes to partner with and both are in their 20s still. Jones is a good D, but I would let another team overpay to trade for him unless he is willing to sign an extension as part of the deal then you look at trading for him obviously but it will cost more than Pesce in assets and way more in cap hit long term

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I wasn't suggesting JB doing that.   I was suggesting that the Kraken GM has other concerns than merely reaching the cap floor at a cheap price.  Again, look at who the owners of the Seattle franchise are.  It ain't Melnyk.

 

Why would Seattle, a team they will have to compete with (division rival) do us any favors but freeing up six million in cap space?  That will come at a price.  A price that will be too high for the Canucks to pay period.  It's like asking Edler to waive his NTC.  

What are you going off about? LE has 1 season left on his deal, Sea could retain and flip him at any point if they wanted. So if they gain a pick or prospect out of it that should be considered a smart GM move no? Yzerman took a 5.9m Staal in return for a 2nd. So if we give Seattle Lind or a 2022 2nd for selecting LE in the expansion draft I think that is a fair deal. To make it more appealing for Seattle we could retain some salary but my preference and I don't know if signing bonuses are being paid on July 1st or on 1st day of FA but we could pay the 1m SB that LE is owed meaning they are only taking on 5m salary and a 6m cap hit for a 2nd round pick and they get Lind who is probably the best player they can get from us at the expansion draft.

[BCNate]

I think Carolina would stick with Pesce over Hamilton, but I do agree he would be a near perfect fit for us.

 

Seth Jones would also be a huge add.  He will come at a high cost, even though he is on an expiring deal and coming off a down season.  I think you'd be looking at #9 and Rathbone to even start the conversation with CLB.  If we had an extension in place, I'd do that deal without question.  Seth Jones on a long term deal would be in the 7 year 8 mill range I feel.  

 

I think we could probably land Reinhart for #9 and Roussel.  I'd be all over that if that was on the table.

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Pesce would be a fantastic addition. He would fit this team like a glove.

 

Seth Jones would be amazing, but that's more than likely a pipe dream. 

Pesce would also likely be a pipe dream in my opinion.  Attempting to acquire him would still cost some young significant assets, and this isn't something the Canucks should be doing right now.  

[86Viking]

14 minutes ago, BCNate said:

I think Carolina would stick with Pesce over Hamilton, but I do agree he would be a near perfect fit for us.

 

Seth Jones would also be a huge add.  He will come at a high cost, even though he is on an expiring deal and coming off a down season.  I think you'd be looking at #9 and Rathbone to even start the conversation with CLB.  If we had an extension in place, I'd do that deal without question.  Seth Jones on a long term deal would be in the 7 year 8 mill range I feel.  

 

I think we could probably land Reinhart for #9 and Roussel.  I'd be all over that if that was on the table.

I agree, I think in a Jones deal they would likely ask for Horvat and we would have to anti up and counter with JT Miller. I don't think Rathbone holds near as much value to 31 other NHL teams as he does to us, due to the fact that he is a Canuck prospect and we want him to succeed and like him as a player/personality

[86Viking]

4 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Pesce would also likely be a pipe dream in my opinion.  Attempting to acquire him would still cost some young significant assets, and this isn't something the Canucks should be doing right now.  

You are correct, we shouldn't go out and do these kind of moves but JB knows he needs to do something and it has to be a big move to help improve the team otherwise good chance he gets fired next year...especially if the team starts slow like this past season. Big difference tho, fans will be at the games in the flesh and will bo and chant for him to be fired if we continue to stink it up

[mll]

1 hour ago, Canuckster86 said:

I am well aware, but maybe they like the offense that hamilton brings and if they lose that from their back end it may impact the team in a greater way. It is a long shot, but Pesce or Mayfield would be great defense first type D for Hughes to partner with and both are in their 20s still. Jones is a good D, but I would let another team overpay to trade for him unless he is willing to sign an extension as part of the deal then you look at trading for him obviously but it will cost more than Pesce in assets and way more in cap hit long term

 

Even more the reason to keep Pesce if they lose Hamilton.   Aho, Svechnikov, Slavin etc are all in their primes - there's no reason for them to sell off key members of their team.  Most are also on reasonable contracts and who knows how much they will cost once their contracts are up.  Their window is now.  

 

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

Even more the reason to keep Pesce if they lose Hamilton.   Aho, Svechnikov, Slavin etc are all in their primes - there's no reason for them to sell off key members of their team.  Most are also on reasonable contracts and who knows how much they will cost once their contracts are up.  Their window is now.  

 

They would only being moving to Pesce to us in my proposal with the intention of then signing and protecting Hamilton from Seattle. I realize it is unrealistic but it is a good D target to consider trying to get for Quinn to help him, that is all I was trying to achieve with this proposal

[Pears]

Jones is more likely and would be a LOT cheaper than Pesce. 

[morrissex95]

11 hours ago, Pears said:

Jones is more likely and would be a LOT cheaper than Pesce. 

Seth Jones will probably cost a 1st + prospect + roster player + another draft pick 2nd/3rd/4th

 

Pesce will never get moved.

 

Parayko would be a great target after next season but the Blues kept him over Pieterangelo for a reason and they have Faulk who can replace AP's offense. 

 

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

14 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

You are correct, we shouldn't go out and do these kind of moves but JB knows he needs to do something and it has to be a big move to help improve the team otherwise good chance he gets fired next year...especially if the team starts slow like this past season. Big difference tho, fans will be at the games in the flesh and will bo and chant for him to be fired if we continue to stink it up

Adam Larsson is the guy that I’d go after.  He’ll only cost money and he’s capable of anchoring a top pairing on the defensive side of things.   While he’s obviously not as good as Jones per se, Larsson would cost significantly less money and significantly less assets.  Perhaps most importantly however, he’d be the closest thing to an Edler replacement out there.  

[morrissex95]

I could see Philly doing York + Patrick + 1sts for Jones from Columbus and giving Patrick a trial run with Patrik Laine next season. I do believe that Patrick is a bust though even though he's still young. We dodged a bullet there.