[Proposal] Reinhart and Savard are in! 3 Year Projection!

[48MPHSlapShot]

Too much to give up for Reinhart. Doesn't make any sense to sell low on Rathbone when all signs point to him breaking out next year.

 

 

[khay]

4 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Probably cant even get Reinhart with that package. 

 

Reinhart is worth way more than a #9 pick, dont know how you guys come up with value. The player himself was drafted #2. When and if Reinhart gets traded, you will see it's a for a nice young roster player + 1st round pick and probably more. Not this #9 straightup excuse we are cooking up. 

 

Player's value fluctuates over time for various reasons. If Reinhart requested trade and refuses to re-sign with Buffalo, his value would plumment.

 

In anticipation, Buffalo may want to trade him even if it's for #9 overall. 

 

Kind of like Schneider for #9 overall? Schneider's value was greater than a #9 overall pick but given that we already had Luongo and his anchor contract, Devils got Schneider at a bit of a discount.

 

Under normal circumstances, I agree with you though. Schneider would have fetched at least a good prospect or a young roster player (a middle 6 player) + #9 overall under normal circumstances and Reinhart would commend similar value under normal circumstances.

 

But what's going on in Buffalo is anything but normal. They have to consider all possibilities and manage their assets properly before the value depreciates. He might be available for a #9 overall. You never know.

 

 

[BPA]

4 minutes ago, khay said:

 

Player's value fluctuates over time for various reasons. If Reinhart requested trade and refuses to re-sign with Buffalo, his value would plumment.

 

In anticipation, Buffalo may want to trade him even if it's for #9 overall. 

 

Kind of like Schneider for #9 overall? Schneider's value was greater than a #9 overall pick but given that we already had Luongo and his anchor contract, Devils got Schneider at a bit of a discount.

 

Under normal circumstances, I agree with you though. Schneider would have fetched at least a good prospect or a young roster player (a middle 6 player) + #9 overall under normal circumstances and Reinhart would commend similar value under normal circumstances.

 

But what's going on in Buffalo is anything but normal. They have to consider all possibilities and manage their assets properly before the value depreciates. He might be available for a #9 overall. You never know.

 

 

It would also depend on how many other teams are in the Reinhart sweepstakes. 

[Drakrami]

1 hour ago, khay said:

 

Player's value fluctuates over time for various reasons. If Reinhart requested trade and refuses to re-sign with Buffalo, his value would plumment.

 

In anticipation, Buffalo may want to trade him even if it's for #9 overall. 

 

Kind of like Schneider for #9 overall? Schneider's value was greater than a #9 overall pick but given that we already had Luongo and his anchor contract, Devils got Schneider at a bit of a discount.

 

Under normal circumstances, I agree with you though. Schneider would have fetched at least a good prospect or a young roster player (a middle 6 player) + #9 overall under normal circumstances and Reinhart would commend similar value under normal circumstances.

 

But what's going on in Buffalo is anything but normal. They have to consider all possibilities and manage their assets properly before the value depreciates. He might be available for a #9 overall. You never know.

 

 

Don't know why you would bring up Schneider. Goaltenders are known to trade for horrible value. Schneider for 9th pick is actually a pretty good trade. 

 

Better example would be what you would trade Horvat for. Would you trade away Horvat for a #9 pick? Horvat and Reinhart are pretty close players. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Lol @ Rousell bring a serviceable vet.  Was once a solid player, including as a Canuck.  But ain’t that anymore.  A cap dump now because of injuries.

[khay]

13 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Don't know why you would bring up Schneider. Goaltenders are known to trade for horrible value. Schneider for 9th pick is actually a pretty good trade. 

 

Better example would be what you would trade Horvat for. Would you trade away Horvat for a #9 pick? Horvat and Reinhart are pretty close players. 

If Horvat is going into free agency in a year, requested a trade, and told us that he is not re-signing with us? Then, it depends on what other teams offer but if #9 overall pick is the best offer, then yes.

 

The trade market for the goaltenders is a little misrepresented because the #1 goalies rarely get traded. The ones that are traded are either backups or borderline #1s or when a #1 goalie does get traded, it's because the team has two bonafide starters and need to get rid of one (i.e., Luongo/Schneider, Andersen/Gibson in Anaheim, and also Bishop/Vasilievsky in Tampa). And that's why the goalies have lower perceived values. It's a hard position to fill so once you have it filled, you don't mess with it.

 

Again, if Schneider was our #1 goalie and we didn't already have Luongo, there is no way Canucks trade him, let alone for a mere #9 overall pick. Hence, that trade is a good example of why a player's value may decrease due to the circumstances surrounding the team/player/market etc.

 

I agree with you. Buffalo doesn't have a reason to trade Reinhart under normal circumstance. But it's not very normal over there. 

 

 

 

[vannuck59]

On 6/17/2021 at 2:36 PM, IBatch said:

Don't really get the Savard love personally, we saw a lot of Gardiner love a few years back .....   But ok i will play ball.   Why not instead we keep the 9th and draft McTavish if he's available, if not Johnson, basically BPA.     

 

Re-sign the kids.   Re sign Hamonic, let Edler go or re-sign Edler and trade one Rathbone or OJ.      And just wait and see how it all shakes out. 

 

For me personally, if we are going after Reinhart we might as well go all in on Hamilton and trade QHs.   Or just trade QHs for Eklbad or another all around youngish RHD in his early prime.    Imagine that.   

 

Personally i'm patient enough to let the chips all fall where they are.   Reinhart for a 9th is a good idea IF we follow through.   Not convinced Savard is our guy at all.  Not one bit.   Sure he'd be a nice add.... but don't think this lineup is a winner as is. 

 

why not sign Jann Rutta cheap Big right handed and can play. 

[ShawnAntoski]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:17 PM, Fanuck said:

My biggest issue with this proposal is the projected line-up in 2023-24 when JB indicated he feels this core will be ready to contend.  That projected defence doesn't look like one that would even get us into the playoffs let alone consider us contenders unfortunately.  I suppose a lot can happen in two or three years. 

Yeah, seems to be a roster created in the PlayStation - with the benefit of a reset button.

[GB5]

Not bad....  OP gets a gold star in my books for working through this in a logical fashion. 

 

We can poke away at player A or player B but I appreciate the effort.

 

I would love to see an NHL GM actually have the guts to try something like this in the current day and age. This kind of thing happened in the pre-cap years byt it seems these guys are a bit restrained when it comes to making wholesale changes.

[GB5]

On 6/17/2021 at 7:13 PM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Too much to give up for Reinhart. Doesn't make any sense to sell low on Rathbone when all signs point to him breaking out next year.

 

 

What signs? You mean the posts on CDC that over inflate the value of Canuck prospects?

 

I like Rathbone and I appreciate the he plays with courage and toughness for his size and makes great choices witht he puck. I saw other things that concerned me as well. Primarily that teams seemed to take runs at him and how he was not protecting himself and trying to absorb hits on the boards. Hughes doesn't do this, he sees them coming and is quick enough to anticipate what is coming and quickly gets out of the way. 

With Rathbone I guess I felt he was looking more like a LHD version of Stecher than a Hughes 2.0.

 

Not that either are bad but lets not get ahead of ourselves and try and temper our expectations. 

[Patel Bure]

On 6/17/2021 at 1:57 PM, HKSR said:

Ok, I'm combining a few of my threads into one to show how we can make the big Reinhart deal and still move forward with a great draft!

 

TRADE #1

To Van:

Sam Reinhart

2021 33rd OA Pick (2nd Round)

 

To BUF:

2021 9th OA Pick (1st Round)

2021 41st OA Pick (2nd Round)

2021 73rd OA Pick (3rd Round)

Jack Rathbone

Antoine Roussel

 

VAN gets their Top 6 winger to play with Bo, and also get to move up in the 2nd round.

BUF gets the 9OA along with a heckuva prospect in Rathbone for Reinhart.  They move down 8 spots in the 2nd round but gain a 3rd round pick and a serviceable vet in Roussel.

 

TRADE #2

To Van:

2021 21st OA Pick (1st Round)

 

To BOS:

Nate Schmidt

Lukas Jasek

 

VAN recovers a 1st round pick, albeit a much later one.

BOS adds a very good defenceman to solidify their Top 4.  They look good on the RHD side, but could definitely use a defenceman like Schmidt on the LHD.  Also they gain a decent prospect in Jasek although signed in Europe for now.

 

UFA Signings and Extensions

-- Sign UFA Erik Haula at $2.5M x 5 years (he signs for this amount particularly due to the term)

-- Sign UFA David Savard at $4.5M x 5 years

-- Petey and Hughes extended on bridge deals at $7M x 3 years (was hoping $6.5M, but it looks more likely to be $7M at this point)

-- Re-sign Reinhart at $5.9M x 5 years (used William Karlsson as a comparable - he signed his deal in 2019-20)

-- Re-sign Hamonic at $2.5M x 3 years

-- Re-sign Edler at $2.25M for 1 year (and less as each year goes by)
 

2021 NHL Draft Picks (first 2 rounds only)

-- Canucks select Fyodor Svechkov 21st overall

-- Canucks select Scott Morrow 33rd overall

 

2021-22 assumptions:
-- Kraken is provided a sweetener in the form of Kole Lind to take Holtby

-- Beagle traded with $1M retained

-- Goodbye Virtanen

 

Assumptions for Future Years:

-- Boeser signs a $7M AAV extension

-- Horvat signs a $6.5M AAV extension

-- Miller signs a $7.5M AAV extension

-- Hogs and Podz get bridge deals at $4.5M AAV when ELCs are done

 

1) Reinhart - I like your Reinhart proposal.  I’m wondering if the Canucks could somehow add in Eriksson to the deal if we added in another key prospect to the deal like a Juolevi.  So, something to the effect of 9th OA, Juolevi, 2nd, + Eriksson for Reinhart.

 

2) No to the Schmidt deal.  Schmidt had an off year this past season but is an all star calibre dman with an excellent cap hit. Give him another chance to prove himself and acclimate to our system.

 

3) No to Savard.  He’s a 30 year old physical defenseman and those types of guys typically don’t age very well. 
 

4) Your Huala idea is interesting but I’d rather spend that money on someone with better hands such as Granlund or even Andreas Athanasiou since Podkolzin will be entering the lineup next season.  It will be better for his development if he had a center with better hands. Both Granlund and AA will cost more money but I’d be willing to do it.

 

5) Can’t move Holtby as DiPietro isn’t ready to assume the back up role just yet.

 

6) probably better for the Canucks to move on from Miller once his contract expires.  Get someone younger.

[Alflives]

[48MPHSlapShot]

16 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

What signs? You mean the posts on CDC that over inflate the value of Canuck prospects?

 

I like Rathbone and I appreciate the he plays with courage and toughness for his size and makes great choices witht he puck. I saw other things that concerned me as well. Primarily that teams seemed to take runs at him and how he was not protecting himself and trying to absorb hits on the boards. Hughes doesn't do this, he sees them coming and is quick enough to anticipate what is coming and quickly gets out of the way. 

With Rathbone I guess I felt he was looking more like a LHD version of Stecher than a Hughes 2.0.

 

Not that either are bad but lets not get ahead of ourselves and try and temper our expectations. 

So you're saying Rathbone has the same offensive upside as Stetcher?

 

Interesting.

[kloubek]

I was looking for a thread to post my own thoughts, and yours are very similar so here goes...

 

Sign Larsson 5 years, 4.25m
Savard 5 years, 4.25m

Two big, shutdown guys.

Sign Petey and Huggy of course. Bridge deals if necessary.

Sign Sutter, 2 years, 1.4m

I know many want Sutter off the team. But he wants to stay and will probably take a discount. Good at faceoffs and still a solid 4th line d-fiirst guy with leadership.
Sign Edler, 1 year, 2.25m
Sign Graovac, Bailey, Poolman, Dahlstrom - 1-2yr year, 750k Additional, big depth for the playoffs.

Trade Eriksson, Roussel, Dipietro, Juolevi, 3rd to Sabers for Reinhart.

I know we all love MD, but Demko is our man. We can Sign any backup after Holtby. And yes, Juolevi is coming into his own, but he's still quite unproven and you gotta give to get. Some will say this still isnt enough.

Trade Schmidt to Wild for Marcus Foligno. Schmidt is a better player than Foligno, and d position is coveted. But Schmidt had a down year and Foligno is the kind of guy who crushes the opposition. Him with Podz is gold. Wild have some issues with Dumba possibly out so Schmidt might be a suitable replacement.

Hoglander Pettersson Boeser
Pearson Horvat Reinhart
Folingo Miller Podkolzin
Motte Beagle Sutter
Lind, Gadjovich, Bailey, Highmore, Graovac

Hughes Larsson
Rathbone Savard
Edler Myers
Rafferty, Dahlstrom, Poolman

Draft Hughes 9oa

Assumptions:

Rathbone takes a step up. He looked very poised in his games and I think he will.

I strongly believe in Hoglander. I think he will have a great offseason and break out.

Miller stated he likes playing center, and I think he would combine for a ridiculously difficult 3rd line to play against. He will still, of course, play special teams to up his ice time appropriately.

 

We still rely on our young stars to bloom and not bring any in for big bucks (save for Reinhart) but I really feel this is a playoff-bound lineup.

 

It's skilled, relentless, and big. If we actually have shutdown guys to stabilize the D and ease pressure on our goalies, I think that would yield rewards in itself - let alone allowing our mobile smaller d to do their thing. Then if we somehow manage to snag Hughes at 9oa (which I kinda doubt) he replaces Edler when ready. Then the D becomes:

 

Hughes x2, Larsson, Rathbone Savard, Myers.

 

That doesn't look so bad...

[VegasCanuck]

I think Reinhart will be moved for less than people think. Contrary to belief, Reinhart does have a lot of leverage in his destination, whether that's Vancouver or somewhere else.

 

He only has one year left to free agency, and any team trading for him will want to speak to him first about his new contract. If a team wants to acquire him and he doesn't want to go, all he has to tell them is, he won't accept anything more than a 1 year extension from them so that he can explore UFA the following year. That gives him a LOT of control in his destination, and if he tells Buffalo that he won't sign more than a 1 year with them, they are into a must move situation before next summer.

 

I think the 9OA straight up for him, with a little cap balancing pieces, is completely possible, but ONLY if he wants to come here.

Edited June 25, 2021 by VegasCanuck

[mll]

On 6/24/2021 at 2:37 AM, kloubek said:

I was looking for a thread to post my own thoughts, and yours are very similar so here goes...

 

Sign Larsson 5 years, 4.25m
Savard 5 years, 4.25m

Two big, shutdown guys.

Sign Petey and Huggy of course. Bridge deals if necessary.

Sign Sutter, 2 years, 1.4m

I know many want Sutter off the team. But he wants to stay and will probably take a discount. Good at faceoffs and still a solid 4th line d-fiirst guy with leadership.
Sign Edler, 1 year, 2.25m
Sign Graovac, Bailey, Poolman, Dahlstrom - 1-2yr year, 750k Additional, big depth for the playoffs.

Trade Eriksson, Roussel, Dipietro, Juolevi, 3rd to Sabers for Reinhart.

I know we all love MD, but Demko is our man. We can Sign any backup after Holtby. And yes, Juolevi is coming into his own, but he's still quite unproven and you gotta give to get. Some will say this still isnt enough.

Trade Schmidt to Wild for Marcus Foligno. Schmidt is a better player than Foligno, and d position is coveted. But Schmidt had a down year and Foligno is the kind of guy who crushes the opposition. Him with Podz is gold. Wild have some issues with Dumba possibly out so Schmidt might be a suitable replacement.

Hoglander Pettersson Boeser
Pearson Horvat Reinhart
Folingo Miller Podkolzin
Motte Beagle Sutter
Lind, Gadjovich, Bailey, Highmore, Graovac

Hughes Larsson
Rathbone Savard
Edler Myers
Rafferty, Dahlstrom, Poolman

Draft Hughes 9oa

Assumptions:

Rathbone takes a step up. He looked very poised in his games and I think he will.

I strongly believe in Hoglander. I think he will have a great offseason and break out.

Miller stated he likes playing center, and I think he would combine for a ridiculously difficult 3rd line to play against. He will still, of course, play special teams to up his ice time appropriately.

 

We still rely on our young stars to bloom and not bring any in for big bucks (save for Reinhart) but I really feel this is a playoff-bound lineup.

 

It's skilled, relentless, and big. If we actually have shutdown guys to stabilize the D and ease pressure on our goalies, I think that would yield rewards in itself - let alone allowing our mobile smaller d to do their thing. Then if we somehow manage to snag Hughes at 9oa (which I kinda doubt) he replaces Edler when ready. Then the D becomes:

 

Hughes x2, Larsson, Rathbone Savard, Myers.

 

That doesn't look so bad...

 

The Wild might move Dumba to create cap space but it wouldn't be to replace him with a 6M D - that wouldn't solve their cap issues.  The Wild are also into analytics/tracking technology and Schmidt hasn't shown well this season per CSA who had him bottom-10 in chances differential before the Covid outbreak.

 

They just extended Foligno despite his agent recommending he sign only post expansion.  Guerin assured that they didn't sign him to lose him in expansion.  He's a big part of their team and was a priority to get under contract.   He was even considered for the captaincy.

 

Guerin after extending simply explained that they want to keep him and that it's not easy to find players like him:  “[These are] important guys to have,” said Guerin. “When a team has a guy like this, they try to lock him up. There just aren’t that many of them out there.”