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[Proposal] Van/Tampa


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5 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I'd have to wrap my head around this valuation but I do know that mobile physical defensive defesemen are way under rated can get you deep in the playoffs and help win a lot of hockey games.

 

The only think about this proposal is that I have a tendency to think that Woo may become a fixture on the Canucks long term. These big guys seem to take an extra year or two to develop and Woo is well on his way.

The young guys on the Canucks need to get better and play more and flirt with the playoffs before making these kinds of moves that will tip the scales. This team is still a couple years off from looking to these types of deals.

If rathone takes the next step like we all think this pushes us into serious playoff contention. Lets say it only takes a 3rd, Woo and ferland/rousell because tampa is desperate to get rid of johnson while at the same time we trade our 9OA and loui for reinhart. Sign janmark as ufa for 3 years 


miller-Petey-Brock

pearson-Horvat-Reinhart

Hog-Johnson-Pod

Motte-Janmark-Lockwood/Highmore

 

Quinn-Cernak

Rathbone- Scmidt

jouveli-Myers

chatfield

 

demko

holtby


 

Not sure what the money looks like but one year of giving up a 1st a 3rd, woo, and a couple of salary dumps to get our lineup to look like this is well worth it and would show Bo and Miller that we are improving the team while both are still here and be easier to re-sign. I can get behind that lineup.

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40 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Meh rather have motte lockwood or highmore be the wingers on the 4th line. 

I'd rather have depth and let them fight it out in Camp, who's best fit for those spots.

 

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30 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Of course he is.  Where are you going to find a similar player in the draft who can partner Hughes for the next decade?  a 6'3" 230 pounder who can play 23 minutes a night and be on your top pairing?  There are no Cernak's in this draft.  He may not be worth a top 5 pick but he is definitely worth a first round pick any day of the week.

I think Cernak is a good, solid D, but I don't believe that he's worth a top 10 pick, straight up.

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I wouldn't give up 9OA. If I were to make a deal with Tampa and help them clear some cap this is the deal I would offer...

 

2022 2nd pick 

Joni Jurmo

Lind

 

for 

 

Cernak 

Johnson (1mil retained) 

 

The first needed for Cernak changes to a 2nd based on taking Johnson's contract. Tampa is still moving forward with a formidable blue line in Hedman, Sergachev, Foote and McDonagh, however, if McDonagh is taken in the ED they have extra cap to re-sign Savard.

 

Vanocuver on the other hand give up Lind and open up an extra protection spot for Gadjovich. This also allows them to protect Juolevi, Cernak and expose/protect one of Schmidt/Myers. This could free up quite a bit of cap space if Myers or Schmidt are selected. The way Hotlby has played I don't see Seattle taking a chance on him. I would hold on to Holtby and see how he performs after a full training camp with Clark and then flip him at the deadline. 

 

Vancouver gets their 3C at a 4mil cap. Johnson can play up and down the lineup either a 3C or 1L with Miller moving to 3C. We have about 7 mil in salary coming back but with one of Schmidt and Myers selected in the draft we free up some cap to fit these two players coming back our way. 

 

Vancouver also trades Jurmo as Tampa would probably want a defensive prospect coming back their way. 

 

Moving forward Vancouver can either select 9OA or trade the pick to Buffalo for Reinhart while also sending them Virtanen, Roussel or both. 

 

9OA

2021 3rd round pick 

Virtanen/Roussel

 

for 

 

Reinhart

 

Edler re-signs for around 2.5-3 mil for 1 year so we have another 3-3.5 mil saved for fourth line centre and third pairing D. 

 

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart

Hoglander - Johnson - Podkolzin

Motte - ??? - MacEwen

 

Hughes - Cernak

Edler - Myers

Joulevi/Rathbone - ???

 

The following year no more Eriksson, Holtby, Loungo re/cap and maybe Edler moves on for potential cap relief of 16 million. 

 

Problems solved. I should be the f*cking GM. 

 

 

Edited by Doogie
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6 minutes ago, Doogie said:

I wouldn't give up 9OA. If I were to make a deal with Tampa and help them clear some cap this is the deal I would offer...

 

2022 2nd pick 

Joni Jurmo

Lind

 

for 

 

Cernak 

Johnson (1mil retained) 

 

The first needed for Cernak changes to a 2nd based on taking Johnson's contract. Tampa is still moving forward with a formidable blue line in Hedman, Sergachev, Foote and McDonagh, however, if McDonagh is taken in the ED they have extra cap to re-sign Savard.

 

Vanocuver on the other hand give up Lind and open up an extra protection spot for Gadjovich. This also allows them to protect Juolevi, Cernak and expose/protect one of Schmidt/Myers. This could free up quite a bit of cap space if Myers or Schmidt are selected. The way Hotlby has played I don't see Seattle taking a chance on him. I would hold on to Holtby and see how he performs after a full training camp with Clark and then flip him at the deadline. 

 

Vancouver gets their 3C at a 4mil cap. Johnson can play up and down the lineup either a 3C or 1L with Miller moving to 3C. We have about 7 mil in salary coming back but with one of Schmidt and Myers selected in the draft we free up some cap to fit these two players coming back our way. 

 

Vancouver also trades Jurmo as Tampa would probably want a defensive prospect coming back their way. 

 

Moving forward Vancouver can either select 9OA or trade the pick to Buffalo for Reinhart while also sending them Virtanen, Roussel or both. 

 

9OA

2021 3rd round pick 

Virtanen/Roussel

 

for 

 

Reinhart

 

Edler re-signs for around 2.5-3 mil for 1 year so we have another 3-3.5 mil saved for fourth line centre and third pairing D. 

 

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart

Hoglander - Johnson - Podkolzin

Motte - ??? - MacEwen

 

Hughes - Cernak

Edler - Myers

Joulevi/Rathbone - ???

 

The following year no more Eriksson, Holtby, Loungo re/cap and maybe Edler moves on for potential cap relief of 16 million. 

 

Problems solved. I should be the f*cking GM. 

 

 

You should be the GM lmao you giving way less than me. I really cant see seattle taking mcD. If johnson is good enough to be tampas 3C he’s definitely good enough to be ours. I like the mix of youth and vets with the trade and keeping woo would be awesome.

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2 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

If seattle doesnt do a deal with tampa and they are stuck with johnson after the ED would we be interested in a trade like this.

 

Tampa receives

 

9OA

Woo

Rousell

 

Vancouver receives

 

Cernak

T Johnson(1 mill retained)

 

we fill 2 massive needs and 7 mill in salary with rousells contract going out while tampa clears some cap space but get a rhd back and a top 10 pick

I would be on board with this but I can’t see Tampa moving Cernak since he’s one of their few cost controlled assets.   

Having said that, I do like the idea of robbing Tampa in some way for taking Tyler Johnson of their hands.   Perhaps I’m wrong, but I still think Johnson is a very good player who is simply a victim of being on an incredibly deep team.   
 

Would I ultimately proceed forward in taking Johnson?  Probably not since I do think there are better 3rd line C options available at better term and money, but getting Johnson definitely intrigued me.  No way Tampa gives up Cernak though even with 9OA in play.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Patel Bure said:

I would be on board with this but I can’t see Tampa moving Cernak since he’s one of their few cost controlled assets.   

Having said that, I do like the idea of robbing Tampa in some way for taking Tyler Johnson of their hands.   Perhaps I’m wrong, but I still think Johnson is a very good player who is simply a victim of being on an incredibly deep team.   
 

Would I ultimately proceed forward in taking Johnson?  Probably not since I do think there are better 3rd line C options available at better term and money, but getting Johnson definitely intrigued me.  No way Tampa gives up Cernak though even with 9OA in play.

 

 

 

Regardless if they want to or not i think it depends how they see Foote moving forward. Theyve tried for over a year to trade johnson with nobody biting. Even if they did this trade they still have a big group of dmen and will have to give up a good piece for anyone to take on johnsons contract and somehow try n get below the salary cap.

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2 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

You're giving away a top 10 pick, plus taking on a contract that Tampa, CAN'T move, even with waiving it. To trade Johnson, they would have to include at least a 2nd round pick and 1.5 - 2 million retention in a flat cap to move him.

 

You're giving up someone who should be at 9OA, an elite skill level, for a fairly solid D, plus you're giving up another top prospect in Jett Woo to a team who is going to be desperate (I don't use that term lightly) to move out dollars at the end of the season.

 

Tampa is 5 million over cap, with 19 guys signed for next season. They need to include their 1st pick to convince someone to take Johnson at this point.

 

Cernak on his own, is not worth a 1st round pick, much less a top 10.

 

Even if they were taking back LE as well, I wouldn't make that deal.

No way they could afford cap coming back.   Any trades with TB is about cap going the other way.    Cernak isn't even a target, they won't trade him.    Very unlikely anyways, same with Foote.    Palat almost certainly will become a Kraken.    They only need to do one more deal after that to make cap, and who knows, maybe Stamkos will take a turn  this time and sit out the year, wouldn't be the first time.

 

Edit:  What is a 9th overall worth anyways?  The bust bar for scouts is only 400ish  NHL games  ...  so not exactly a primo pick either.  The Hockey Writers voted Horvat as the best of the much from 2010-2020 so that's probably the best we could  hope for, although Hamilton might have something to say about that five years from now.   Ohlund was a beast for us ... could hope for that too.    We lucked out getting Podz.   Our 9th isn't a massive treasure i guess is what i'm saying - if they wanted to do Cernak straight across , given we have mostly taken BPA and it's left holes i'd do that deal and forget Hamonic. 

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

No way they could afford cap coming back.   Any trades with TB is about cap going the other way.    Cernak isn't even a target, they won't trade him.    Very unlikely anyways, same with Foote.    Palat almost certainly will become a Kraken.    They only need to do one more deal after that to make cap, and who knows, maybe Stamkos will take a turn  this time and sit out the year, wouldn't be the first time.

 

Edit:  What is a 9th overall worth anyways?  The bust bar for scouts is only 400ish  NHL games  ...  so not exactly a primo pick either.  The Hockey Writers voted Horvat as the best of the much from 2010-2020 so that's probably the best we could  hope for, although Hamilton might have something to say about that five years from now.   Ohlund was a beast for us ... could hope for that too.    We lucked out getting Podz.   Our 9th isn't a massive treasure i guess is what i'm saying - if they wanted to do Cernak straight across , given we have mostly taken BPA and it's left holes i'd do that deal and forget Hamonic. 

Very much aware of this. Tampa is not a good transactional partner for us unless we can shed cap first. As you stated, they are not in a position to take anything back, and we're not taking on more dead space, just to get Cernak.

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3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

I think Cernak is a good, solid D, but I don't believe that he's worth a top 10 pick, straight up.

Depends who that pick is.  If it's Podkolzin I would say no.  If it's Tyson Jost I would run to the airport and drop Jost off.  The draft is a crapshoot.  There have been many star players drafted in the top 10 and also alot of duds.

 

Benning traded a first and a third for JT Miller.  If Tampa wanted Miller back and offered Cernak I would drive Miller to the airport myself in my Audi.  So that means Cernak should be worth a first and a third round pick...

Edited by Elias Pettersson
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3 hours ago, Doogie said:

I wouldn't give up 9OA. If I were to make a deal with Tampa and help them clear some cap this is the deal I would offer...

 

2022 2nd pick 

Joni Jurmo

Lind

 

for 

 

Cernak 

Johnson (1mil retained) 

 

The first needed for Cernak changes to a 2nd based on taking Johnson's contract. Tampa is still moving forward with a formidable blue line in Hedman, Sergachev, Foote and McDonagh, however, if McDonagh is taken in the ED they have extra cap to re-sign Savard.

 

Vanocuver on the other hand give up Lind and open up an extra protection spot for Gadjovich. This also allows them to protect Juolevi, Cernak and expose/protect one of Schmidt/Myers. This could free up quite a bit of cap space if Myers or Schmidt are selected. The way Hotlby has played I don't see Seattle taking a chance on him. I would hold on to Holtby and see how he performs after a full training camp with Clark and then flip him at the deadline. 

 

Vancouver gets their 3C at a 4mil cap. Johnson can play up and down the lineup either a 3C or 1L with Miller moving to 3C. We have about 7 mil in salary coming back but with one of Schmidt and Myers selected in the draft we free up some cap to fit these two players coming back our way. 

 

Vancouver also trades Jurmo as Tampa would probably want a defensive prospect coming back their way. 

 

Moving forward Vancouver can either select 9OA or trade the pick to Buffalo for Reinhart while also sending them Virtanen, Roussel or both. 

 

9OA

2021 3rd round pick 

Virtanen/Roussel

 

for 

 

Reinhart

 

Edler re-signs for around 2.5-3 mil for 1 year so we have another 3-3.5 mil saved for fourth line centre and third pairing D. 

 

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart

Hoglander - Johnson - Podkolzin

Motte - ??? - MacEwen

 

Hughes - Cernak

Edler - Myers

Joulevi/Rathbone - ???

 

The following year no more Eriksson, Holtby, Loungo re/cap and maybe Edler moves on for potential cap relief of 16 million. 

 

Problems solved. I should be the f*cking GM. 

 

 

 

Foote has yet to play this post-season.   Cooper has even been going at times with 7 Ds.   He becomes waiver eligible next season.  

 

Cooper says Cernak is a star for them.  Every indication from Tampa is that he is not available.  McKenzie lists him as one of their core players.

 

Can't really see Tampa using a core player to dump cap.  Their window is now so draft picks probably have less value for them as that player is likely several years away from contributing.

 

Edited by mll
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53 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Depends who that pick is.  If it's Podkolzin I would say no.  If it's Tyson Jost I would run to the airport and drop Jost off.  The draft is a crapshoot.  There have been many star players drafted in the top 10 and also alot of duds.

 

Benning traded a first and a third for JT Miller.  If Tampa wanted Miller back and offered Cernak I would drive Miller to the airport myself in my Audi.  So that means Cernak should be worth a first and a third round pick...

You are correct, it's a crap shoot, and we traded a 1st, but it was a much later round 1st.

 

Listen, I'm completely good with moving the 9OA, but if we use historical data, it should be significant value coming back. Something on the Horvat potential level.

 

This year is more of a crap shoot than others, but let's still not give it away.

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18 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

You are correct, it's a crap shoot, and we traded a 1st, but it was a much later round 1st.

 

Listen, I'm completely good with moving the 9OA, but if we use historical data, it should be significant value coming back. Something on the Horvat potential level.

 

This year is more of a crap shoot than others, but let's still not give it away.

Have u checked the 9th overall pick for the last 20 years? Horvat is almost at the top for guys picked at 9

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4 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Have u checked the 9th overall pick for the last 20 years? Horvat is almost at the top for guys picked at 9

Yes, and his path was not clear, but that level of potential should be there.

 

Even 1st OAs wash out, but that doesn't mean you give that level of pick away without significant return.

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1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said:

Yes, and his path was not clear, but that level of potential should be there.

 

Even 1st OAs wash out, but that doesn't mean you give that level of pick away without significant return.

Well you can take your chance with the 9 pick and hope it works out or get a guarantee guy that youve watched play whos age fits right in with the rest of the core that can help immediately , a RHD stud dman your team hasnt had in a decade. 

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1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

You are correct, it's a crap shoot, and we traded a 1st, but it was a much later round 1st.

 

Listen, I'm completely good with moving the 9OA, but if we use historical data, it should be significant value coming back. Something on the Horvat potential level.

 

This year is more of a crap shoot than others, but let's still not give it away.

I agree with you on that. I wouldn’t trade the 9OA unless it was a significant piece coming back. In my opinion Cernak is the equivalent of BO. A top pairing shut down Right Handed Dman who can partner with Hughes for the next decade. I’m not even sure Tampa does that deal to be honest.  The cost to acquire a top pairing right handed Dman probably starts at a first round pick and then you have to add to that. 

Edited by Elias Pettersson
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I don't see the situation eventuating, because there are so many other (better) routes TBL could potentially take to shed cap (including buying out Johnson and trading forwards).

 

But if TBL made the below offer (note: even without retaining on TJ) then I would accept.

 

To TBL: 9OA + Woo + Roussel

To VAN: Cernak + Johnson

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