What Lessons Have The Habs Taught Us?

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Highlighted. Please. Its not about punishing other teams its the ability to survive the punishment the other teams dish out in the playoffs.

Both actually.  But yes we need a bigger D core. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by IBatch

[mikeyman109]

16 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Both actually.  But yes we need a bigger D core. 

if we have a Hughes in the lineup then everyone else needs to be of the larger variety. we have room for one , smaller mobile type D man and then you build the forest around him. Draft us a D man that can skate over 6'4 220

Edited June 24, 2021 by mikeyman109

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, mikeyman109 said:

if we have a Hughes int he lineup then everyone else needs to be of the larger variety. we have room for one , smaller mobile type D man and then you build the forest around him. Draft us a D man that can skate over 6'4 220

Couldn't agree more.   For sure we have to make the playoffs first.   So maybe QHs and Rathbone give us an advantage there.   But feel the same way.   I've been putting hints that instead of signing QHs we could trade him (if possible), for either Ekblad or Chychrun for six weeks or so.    Trade our 9th for Reinhardt and re-sign him .... Food for thought.    I love QHs and think he could turn into a better Brian Campbell, but haven't seen much evidence of that yet. He could just as easily be another Barrie with less ability to take punishment.   Not what folks want to hear.    There are pro's and cons to each, but having to design an entire defense to maximize QHs game won't be easy either. 

[mikeyman109]

16 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Couldn't agree more.   For sure we have to make the playoffs first.   So maybe QHs and Rathbone give us an advantage there.   But feel the same way.   I've been putting hints that instead of signing QHs we could trade him (if possible), for either Ekblad or Chychrun for six weeks or so.    Trade our 9th for Reinhardt and re-sign him .... Food for thought.    I love QHs and think he could turn into a better Brian Campbell, but haven't seen much evidence of that yet. He could just as easily be another Barrie with less ability to take punishment.   Not what folks want to hear.    There are pro's and cons to each, but having to design an entire defense to maximize QHs game won't be easy either. 

I think we have the make up to be a playoff team, this past season is not a good measuring stick with all that went on and the crazy schedule they had to begin the year.

QH is a good player to have. He brings a good dimension to back end that has been missing since Salo left and Edler has regressed. Now they need to source and sign bigger D men that can take the punishment and be healthy when the playoffs arrive. If you dont have the size up front, you better have it at the back end.Myers is big enough and he skates well but he isnt the shut down guy we need.Without the large D men you can only look to Toronto for what happens when the playoffs come around. We have a good possibly Great goalie in Demko. Our top 6 could be as good as anyone's but as a  lot of the offense comes from the D turning the puck over it wont be to its true potential until we have a  better top 4 behind them.

[Alflives]

Just now, mikeyman109 said:

I think we have the make up to be a playoff team, this past season is not a good measuring stick with all that went on and the crazy schedule they had to begin the year.

QH is a good player to have. He brings a good dimension to back end that has been missing since Salo left and Edler has regressed. Now they need to source and sign bigger D men that can take the punishment and be healthy when the playoffs arrive. If you dont have the size up front, you better have it at the back end.Myers is big enough and he skates well but he isnt the shut down guy we need.Without the large D men you can only look to Toronto for what happens when the playoffs come around. We have a good possibly Great goalie in Demko. Our top 6 could be as good as anyone's but as a  lot of the offense comes from the D turning the puck over it wont be to its true potential until we have a  better top 4 behind them.

Toronto’s top four D are:  220, 220, 220, and 200.  They lose because their core players are LOSERS!  The Avs are the team with very light top four D, who range between 170 and 190.  

[mikeyman109]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Toronto’s top four D are:  220, 220, 220, and 200.  They lose because their core players are LOSERS!  The Avs are the team with very light top four D, who range between 170 and 190.  

Yes and the Avs got where again? beaten by a larger team or???

Toronto just doesnt have the right top 4. its not just about size but size with skill. again if you have a QH in the lineup you need to counter that with some size. like i said not about punishing anyone but the ability to come through the season healthy and then stay healthy in the playoffs.

 

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Couldn't agree more.   For sure we have to make the playoffs first.   So maybe QHs and Rathbone give us an advantage there.   But feel the same way.   I've been putting hints that instead of signing QHs we could trade him (if possible), for either Ekblad or Chychrun for six weeks or so.    Trade our 9th for Reinhardt and re-sign him .... Food for thought.    I love QHs and think he could turn into a better Brian Campbell, but haven't seen much evidence of that yet. He could just as easily be another Barrie with less ability to take punishment.   Not what folks want to hear.    There are pro's and cons to each, but having to design an entire defense to maximize QHs game won't be easy either. 

Ekblad is damaged goods, and Chychrun is dumb like post.  Hughes is a far superior player to both.  However, what would Jersey offer in return for Quinn if the draft Luke?  Heischer and Severnson?   How about that deal?  Nothing less.  

[Putgolzin]

Not sure if it has already been pointed out, but the Habs are currently using our playbook not vice-versa.

 

If they win game 7 they've surpassed us, but currently their run looks almost identical to ours from last season.

 

 

[Convincing John]

Modelling your team to the flavour of the month is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in team building. Just pick a style and draft and develop to that style. One of my biggest issues with our team is we have no identity. Jim Benning struggles with finding players who complement each other, then when he does he lets them walk cause he has to pay for the duds that nobody wants. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Yes and the Avs got where again? beaten by a larger team or???

Toronto just doesnt have the right top 4. its not just about size but size with skill. again if you have a QH in the lineup you need to counter that with some size. like i said not about punishing anyone but the ability to come through the season healthy and then stay healthy in the playoffs.

 

The Leafs are LOSERS, because their core guys hide when play gets tough.  The Avs lose to top teams in series play because their philosophy is to skate the puck (Makar and other) through the neutral zone instead of passing.  They turn over pucks (especially Makar) in dangerous areas.  And yes they are too light on D.  Lou Lam took Sakic to the woodshed getting two seconds for a 180 pound Toews.  Light D who don’t put up big points, or who aren’t mean as alley cats are bad news in series play.  

Edited June 24, 2021 by Alflives

[JM_]

12 hours ago, c00kies said:

Well and getting Tofu in free agency for a good price...seriously, a skilled top 6 forward with cup experience who does the little things right (and the big things) is a huge boost to a team that lacked skill. 

Caufield coming in reminds me of Seguin coming in for Boston on their run.

A well-rested Price has success in playoffs, which emphasizes the need to have two good goalies or a capable backup.

Luck is important too! Tavares injury, Scheifele suspension, and only having to play a true contender in the conference Finals is huge...as well as avoiding injuries.

for sure, it would have been nice to have the cap space for more top 6 firepower. So that is coming here after next year, we're likely going to have to wait unless Arizona loses its mind and takes Loui.

 

I find the Caulfield hype a little funny, tbh. Lets see what he's like after an actual season before we start making those comp's, or worse, wishing we didn't take Podkolzon before he's actually played a game. 

[lmm]

the "process" is over rated- Mtl changed coaches mid-season

Veteran leadership should come from players who have preformed major roles in past cups - Perry, Toffoli,Staal, Edmunson

Big players that play big - the D, Perry Staal, Anderson

have a fresh allstar in net -25 game regular season is better than a 65 game regular season

respect all of your players equally - that does not mean use them equally

[c00kies]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

for sure, it would have been nice to have the cap space for more top 6 firepower. So that is coming here after next year, we're likely going to have to wait unless Arizona loses its mind and takes Loui.

 

I find the Caulfield hype a little funny, tbh. Lets see what he's like after an actual season before we start making those comp's, or worse, wishing we didn't take Podkolzon before he's actually played a game. 

Oh I wasn't comparing him to Seguin, just noting the added jolt it gives the team. 

 

I don't know a lot about CC TBH, but I'm not really high on any of their forwards aside from TT , Gallagher, and maybe Anderson lol.

 

Montreal could win the Cup this year and then miss the playoffs next year and I wouldn't be surprised (I'd actually be surprised if they did make the playoffs since they'll probably be put in a competitive division).

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, c00kies said:

Oh I wasn't comparing him to Seguin, just noting the added jolt it gives the team. 

 

I don't know a lot about CC TBH, but I'm not really high on any of their forwards aside from TT , Gallagher, and maybe Anderson lol.

 

Montreal could win the Cup this year and then miss the playoffs next year and I wouldn't be surprised (I'd actually be surprised if they did make the playoffs since they'll probably be put in a competitive division).

it does seem like it might be MTLs year tho doesn't it  Tampa losing Kurcherov just seems like the luck Montreal has been getting. 

[c00kies]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it does seem like it might be MTLs year tho doesn't it  Tampa losing Kurcherov just seems like the luck Montreal has been getting. 

Yes! I personally don't think they would have handled Colorado that well, as Colorado has skill on all lines, speed, and offense from all pairings. 

The Knights have constantly struggled to score in the playoffs, and their big guns are usually to blame. 

 

The Lightning (with or without Kucherov) would be a different beast altogether.

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, c00kies said:

Yes! I personally don't think they would have handled Colorado that well, as Colorado has skill on all lines, speed, and offense from all pairings. 

The Knights have constantly struggled to score in the playoffs, and their big guns are usually to blame. 

 

The Lightning (with or without Kucherov) would be a different beast altogether.

just watch, if MTL goes to the finals Point will get appendicitis. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Ekblad is damaged goods, and Chychrun is dumb like post.  Hughes is a far superior player to both.  However, what would Jersey offer in return for Quinn if the draft Luke?  Heischer and Severnson?   How about that deal?  Nothing less.  

I'm not in agreement there Alf but i could be wrong.   Chychrun turned a corner this year and had a stellar season on a not so good team.   Ekblad's injuries are my only concern with him, otherwise he's pretty much an AP clone.   One is a left D the other a RD.   The only reason i suggested the trade is a two for - both Reinhardt and Ekblad/Chychrun plus minus a little.    So far QHs isn't a 5 x 5 guy, if our PP was top five we are fine, if not ... then i'm worried what his long term cost will be.   He's a great player and could be dynamite.  OR he could be exposed every post season and wilt like Ghost did in PHI.   There are risks in either scenario.   I wouldn't worry much, JB and co are pretty determined to make it work around QHs which has a better long term game.   BUT if we want to compete the next couple years before BB, Horvat and Miller are up that to me is a good path.   

 

Edit: Like Burke i have some old school in me.  Playoffs are all that matters.  QHs was fine until Vegas, aside for five minutes one game he was a completely invisible (same with the rest of the team aside from an injured Myers, Motte and Demko so he gets a pass anyways).    I'm ok with this season exactly as is, but do see a change coming of things don't get better.   It's a lot easier to just build a top four D six deep then spend years trying to build around one guy.    See the upside both ways.   Like i've said many times, if QHs can control the pace of a game like Brian Campbell could plus an extra 50% or so on offense he's going to the HHOF.   If he can't then Barrie 2.0. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by IBatch

[knucklehead91]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

I agree with this entire post with the exception of D's playing top four at that age, only the best in business can manage that.   But do agree that the blue chip D's (we have two in Schmidt and Myers, well three in Edler) often play their best hockey from 30-35.   Weber is a HHOF number one D that never quite won a Norris, his generations Brad Park.  Pretty sure without looking, nobody scored as many goals as him since his first NHL game.    Edler is past his due date now, too slow, but for sure could play well on a bottom pairing for another 2-4 years.    Curiously, TO also got some vets to help their run .... but didn't pick winners.   MTL did in Perry and Staal.   Also luck played into it against TO with Tavares, same with Schieffle.    That said they've played such a great team defense against the other teams stars so far ... it's starting to look like destiny. 

You’re definitely right, what I meant to say with older D playing top 4 is that they are still very capable of playing top 4 minutes. They may not BE top 4, but they are capable of it and thats why it is okay to still pursue 29-30 year old dmen as opposed to forwards because they rely on speed to find openings or create openings, dmen just need to be smart to take away time and space, they dont need to be fast. For dmen Its like chess, for forwards its like checkers, they  need ‘jump’ to be effective. 
 

The issue with the veterans TO acquired is they arent 200ft players. That and not enough grit/size in the bottom 6 to wear opposition down. Montreal has a really well balanced lineup top to bottom front to back and they have 3 lines that can wear you down. Plus Gallagher and Perry who are the ballsiest guys when it comes to getting in the goalies face. They have a few guys that get right in the kitchen. Toronto has too many perimeter players. I followed the all the leagues off season moves and looked at Montreals roster at the start of the year and thought, holy crap they are deep AF, not over the top high end skill, but very well rounded players up and down the roster. Same with Ottawa to an extent. I could tell they werent going to be an easy win for anyone in the division on paper. Teams would have to work for their 2 points, which they did. Next season I can see Ottawa finishing just shy of a playoff berth. 
 

 

Montreal may have been “lucky” to have TO lose Tavares early as well as the over the top suspension on Scheifele. But what does that say about TO? With the absence of 1 player who is on his downward way as age does to everyone, they failed to close out a series. I think thats also a tip of the cap to Montreal for winning 3 straight with their backs against the rope. Toronto still had the #1 goal scorer in the league and he did sweet f-all.
Winnipeg on the other hand just got out played, with or without Scheifele, they probably lose that series either way. It would have probably been closer, but still….Once again 1 player out and they got swept. 
 

I strongly think this is Montreal/Carey Prices one shot at a cup. They are playing impeccable defence, they still need to close out this series and they have been looking better as it has gone on. Next year they are going to slowly unravel and in another year or 2, Montreal is going to find themselves in a transition between vets aging off the roster, Carey Price’s immoveable contract and a lot of inexperience filling the roster.

[Gollumpus]

Step #1: wear a "C" on the front of your jersey...

 

                                             regards,  G.

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, Convincing John said:

Modelling your team to the flavour of the month is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in team building. Just pick a style and draft and develop to that style. One of my biggest issues with our team is we have no identity. Jim Benning struggles with finding players who complement each other, then when he does he lets them walk cause he has to pay for the duds that nobody wants. 

I'd argue there's space for variation here. A team like TBay seemed mostly flash & dash for a number of yrs. Seems 3 or 4 yrs back they started mixing in more grit & size, especially on their back-end. It's certainly paid dividends. Wash also seemed to benefit by adjusting their Prez team formula.

 

Then with a younger team like ours, it's likely even easier if a GM wants to alter the team's composition. One doesn't have to chase after the latest style that seems to win; but it's no crime if developing trends influence decisions you make on some of your roster.