The future of schmidt and myers

[Bertuzzipunch]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

No we don't.   But if we are going to spend that much, both Schmidt and Myers are not the problem. 

My point is that its more valuable to get rid of schmidts contract where its not worth it when our time to be competitive is in a few years. Myers is fine i dont mind him here for the next 3 years. 

[JM_]

38 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Exactly! Why are we selling low on him this year, especially when he brings a lot of what we need? I'd prefer we find the cheaper, easier to acquire, defensive/gritty guys to play with him and Hughes, and keep those two, harder to find guys personally.

 

Nothing is a shoe in but I think we have real possibility to see decent change as well (beyond Shaw). Good chance to add some bodies with the ED possibly exposing guys. Might even be able to clear $1-2m if we do add a D in trade and in turn, expose (and lose) Myers and then replace him with someone cheaper. There's also a glut of UFA's who fit exactly the profile of player we need there that shouldn't break the bank.

 

There's similar opportunity at F as well.

 

I'd love to know the number of things Jim is working on at the moment on this front. I do think he'd do a deal prior to expansion and expose Myers if a right side d comes along.

 

38 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

But yes, I'm looking forward to better defensive coverage and improved puck support from the forwards that I think Shaw will help implement.

that alone will be a big help if no major changes happen. 

 

38 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Sure, if we could exchange Schmidt for a legit, top pair, (natural) RHD who plays a grittier, more defensive game...I look at that. Otherwise I hang the hell on to him. At least for a few more years (barring a prospect like Rathbone out-playing him and making him redundant sooner).

yup. I'm not looking to lose either Nate or Myers, but its not like they are untouchable either. They certainly are not problems to have. 

 

I don't think teams are going to wait for the finals to be over to start making moves, since July 17th is coming up pretty quickly. Unless its a sweep 

 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

I just don't agree. That Fantenberg - Myers pairing was hemmed in their own end so much and Myers was outscored 8-1 at ES playing against opponent bottom sixes. 

 

And all the penalties and everything. 

 

I still have a lot of faith in Schmidt but Myers is a guy who's been 3rd on the depth chart on the right side for most of his career. (Wpg, then Edler - Stecher/Hughes - Tanev, then behind Edler - Schmidt, Hughes - Hamonic). 

 

Just too much money for a guy like that. If he made less, I wouldn't care. 

 

 

Myers didn't play third line minutes.  Elder was taking the toughest assignments with Schmidt.   Myers was relied on heavily too.   QHs ... he's the minus magnet.  On any line 5 x 5.   

Edited June 27, 2021 by IBatch

[Devron]

Yup agree with a lot of what people are saying hear. We have 3 very good puck moving defencemen. We need to add 2 solid, reliable righty’s. Moving either of these guys doesn’t make sense unless you are bringing in a top 2 Dman and need the cap space. 

[Devron]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Myers didn't play third line minutes.  Elder was taking the toughest assignments with Schmidt.   Myers was relied on heavily too.   QHs ... he's the minus magnet.  On any line 5 x 5.   

Myers was second in ice time on the whole team. Where do people come up with this m because they see him listed on the third pairing when the see the starting line-ups? Amateur stuff 

[IBatch]

Listen i get that both Myers and Schmidt deals were signed pre--covid, but they are not a problem.   What IS a problem is losing these guys   If i had to pick either it would be Schmidt for sure.  

 

Playoffs matter.   Myers is a playoff player and managed OJ well, was by far our best D last year and really it wasn't even close.   Schmidt or Myers can also run a PP.   For me at least, it comes down to 5 x 5 play... bet the same people they b!tched and wined about Bieksa, are now doing the same things about Myers. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Not sure how I feel about Ceci and don't know much about Hakanpaa, but any of those other guys are solid options for us for sure if we could afford it.

Both would be more 2nd or 3rd pair complementary guys who play solid D, with size/grit, can PK etc but are completely unspectacular offensively. Solid, big, complementary, defensive D.

 

But you should look up Hakanpaa

 

They'd also likely be cheaper (cap and term) than top four guys like Larsson or Savard.

 

Hamonic being a solid 'middle ground' option of being a good, second pair guy who likely falls somewhere in the middle of this price ranges.

 

Oleksiak is also a lefty option (Schmidt on the right).

 

The lesser guys would be the 'plan B's of not landing say Larsson and/or to spend less cap this season (perhaps saving it to target guys like Parayko, Risto, Lindholm etc next year).

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Myers was second in ice time on the whole team. Where do people come up with this m because they see him listed on the third pairing when the see the starting line-ups? Amateur stuff 

Almost idiotic.   I watched 90% of the games.   He wasn't a problem.   Guys a gamer. 

[Kuzy]

9 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Not sure how I feel about Ceci and don't know much about Hakanpaa, but any of those other guys are solid options for us for sure if we could afford it.

Hakanpaa could be a good option. Huge mobile Viking looking dude who was top 5 in hits this year, clears the crease, would come cheaper than most other free agents out there...

[iceman64]

3 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

So ive been thinking. Myers is signed for 3 more years and schmidt 4. Realistically our time to be a consistent playoff team is probably in 2 years. At this time both players are well into their 30s. If we were able to get rid of one of them this offseason which one would you like it to be? Would you be okay getting rid of schmidt for a 3rd for what we payed for him. 
 

the way i see it if we draft a big RHD in the 2nd which has a lot of talent this year he could probably be ready once myers contract runs out in 3 years. Which im okay with
 

Schmidt tho i dont know and dont think weve seen the best of him yet but still counts for a lot on the cap which can be used to find serviceable dman maybe even for a year where a lot of good defenseman will be UFAs. If he was signed for 2 years instead of 4 id be okay with but the contract is too long for our team imo.

 

who would you rather trade this offseason?

so schmitty didn't have the best of season but F, hey throw him under the bus, typical Vancouver fan b.s. and duh we need TM's size in the playoffs..  

This board never ceases to amaze me, sure let's have another creampuff team with next to zero size and turfed out early by bigger skilled teams like we always have. Sounds fun, let's not break our no cup streak hey? 

[mikeyman109]

21 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Who says we have to spend 6 mill? What are you talking about? Make a list go from the top to the bottom its not rocket science 

Ok not looking to start an argument here but it would be the same over payment we paid for Myers. Id rather we stand pat with what we have and see how they do in a regular season not covid shortened,

in the divisions we play in and with the travel that should be. It is rocket science to convince players to come and play for a last place team when they control where they play. its not hard to understand that. Thats why Myers got what he got.  if we let him go and roll the dice on another player of the same how does that help us. Also if they are willing to sign for less how are they any better than Juolevi or Rathbone? or Chatfield? Or Woo?

I think you have misguided faith that we can somehow find better players than what we have at a reasonable cap hit that are better than what we have right now and convince them to come to Vancouver rather than another team that has a better shot at winning a cup. Players take less to play in Tampa due to the taxes and the fact the team is a contender. We are not.

If we can get a player that serves our top 6 great. but Myers has been serviceable but at a higher cap hit than most would like. Thats what happens in Free agency.

[RU SERIOUS]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Myers' real value was shown in the bubble.  He cleared the crease and played a really physical game.  I'm expecting both guys to play a lot better next year now that Shaw is here to limit the damage Baumgartner's able to inflict on our defense.

I agree with your comments and a few others - that we should not trade either at this time, as we have no one to replace them with, plus the young guns and up & coming potential star players are still 2-3 years from having the ability to inflict serious impact in the playoffs.  But more importantly is your comment that BumGardener is finally gone and we all know (and it took Uncle Jim several years to admit) that he was the worst defensive coach we've ever had in 50 years and Shaw should certainly improve things.   I'd be more inclined to wait another year or two and see what the back end looks like - especially after someone finally teaches young Quinn how to play defenseman and reduce that League Shattering Minus -24 +/- points that harm the team.   If he can clean that up - and one of our Rookie dmen in the wings (like Woo) appear half descent as they join the ranks, then we can start thinking about dumping either of them.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Ok not looking to start an argument here but it would be the same over payment we paid for Myers. Id rather we stand pat with what we have and see how they do in a regular season not covid shortened,

in the divisions we play in and with the travel that should be. It is rocket science to convince players to come and play for a last place team when they control where they play. its not hard to understand that. Thats why Myers got what he got.  if we let him go and roll the dice on another player of the same how does that help us. Also if they are willing to sign for less how are they any better than Juolevi or Rathbone? or Chatfield? Or Woo?

I think you have misguided faith that we can somehow find better players than what we have at a reasonable cap hit that are better than what we have right now and convince them to come to Vancouver rather than another team that has a better shot at winning a cup. Players take less to play in Tampa due to the taxes and the fact the team is a contender. We are not.

If we can get a player that serves our top 6 great. but Myers has been serviceable but at a higher cap hit than most would like. Thats what happens in Free agency.

There is a path where we could in fact save money AND improve. Maybe not have a 'better player' than Myers, but perhaps a better 'fit'.

 

But in fairness, a whole lot of stars would need to align to accomplish that.

 

-Trade for $1.5m Mayfield for 'cheap', with the ED pressure point.

 

-Expose and lose Myers (or alternatively trade him after the ED, and having largely secured a 'handshake' UFA or two below).

 

-Sign two of Hamonic, Larsson, Savard, Hakanpaa, Oleksiak, Ceci etc.

 

Right side of Larsson, Mayfield, Hakanpaa is probably +/- $8.5 total.

 

Hughes, Larsson

Schmidt, Mayfield

Juolevi, Hakanpaa

 

Edler

 

Rights side of Hamonic, Mayfield, Hakanpaa is probably closer to $6.5 total.

 

Hughes, Hamonic

Schmidt, Mayfield

Juolevi, Hakanpaa

 

Edler

 

But again, a lot would have to go right for all that (or similar) to happen. Be nice if something like that does though

[RWMc1]

54 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Getting a player we want is bad? That makes no sense

It's been explained. I'm not sure if you're willing to get it though.

 

Ufas pick their destination. Other teams also want them. Wanting them is not a guarantee that we get them. If we trade away d-men and don't get the d-men we want we are left bidding for the remaining ufas that we now need because we already traded away players we had signed already.

[iceman64]

21 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Ok not looking to start an argument here but it would be the same over payment we paid for Myers. Id rather we stand pat with what we have and see how they do in a regular season not covid shortened,

in the divisions we play in and with the travel that should be. It is rocket science to convince players to come and play for a last place team when they control where they play. its not hard to understand that. Thats why Myers got what he got.  if we let him go and roll the dice on another player of the same how does that help us. Also if they are willing to sign for less how are they any better than Juolevi or Rathbone? or Chatfield? Or Woo?

I think you have misguided faith that we can somehow find better players than what we have at a reasonable cap hit that are better than what we have right now and convince them to come to Vancouver rather than another team that has a better shot at winning a cup. Players take less to play in Tampa due to the taxes and the fact the team is a contender. We are not.

If we can get a player that serves our top 6 great. but Myers has been serviceable but at a higher cap hit than most would like. Thats what happens in Free agency.

Myers, a guy with decent skills with his SIZE is not an overpayment, we're paying extra for that but I guess your completely unable to even consider that are you? 

[Alflives]

Just now, RWMc1 said:

It's been explained. I'm not sure if you're willing to get it though.

 

Ufas pick their destination. Other teams also want them. Wanting them is not a guarantee that we get them. If we trade away d-men and don't get the d-men we want we are left bidding for the remaining ufas that we now need because we already traded away players we had signed already.

Wouldn’t there be a handshake deal in place though?  Like what Vegas did with AP before they traded away Schmidt.  

[mikeyman109]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

There is a path where we could in fact save money AND improve. Maybe not have a 'better player' than Myers, but perhaps a better 'fit'.

 

But in fairness, a whole lot of stars would need to align to accomplish that.

 

-Trade for $1.5m Mayfield for 'cheap', with the ED pressure point.

 

-Expose and lose Myers (or alternatively trade him after the ED, and having largely secured a 'handshake' UFA or two below).

 

-Sign two of Hamonic, Larsson, Savard, Hakanpaa, Oleksiak, Ceci etc.

 

Right side of Larsson, Mayfield, Hakanpaa is probably +/- $8.5 total.

 

Hughes, Larsson

Schmidt, Mayfield

Juolevi, Hakanpaa

 

Edler

 

Rights side of Hamonic, Mayfield, Hakanpaa is probably closer to $6.5 total.

 

Hughes, Hamonic

Schmidt, Mayfield

Juolevi, Hakanpaa

 

Edler

 

But again, a lot would have to go right for all that (or similar) to happen. Be nice if something like that does though

I just thinks its unrealistic to think that will all happen. HOPE is not a strategy. Its like looking at who we can draft before the draft lottery. Not much point wasting arguing about it. WE do need to replace Edler and if possible with a cheaper option. id love to see Mayfield come here but having played in T bay he has the tax advantage to be considered. What he will want to play here will be much more than he was making in T bay.I dont know much about Hakanpaa but there are bound to be plenty of bottom pair D men available. I just want to see how Schmidt and Myers do in a regular regular season

Edited June 27, 2021 by mikeyman109

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, iceman64 said:

Myers, a guy with decent skills with his SIZE is not an overpayment, we're paying extra for that but I guess your completely unable to even consider that are you? 

I arguing the same thing you are. cheers

Edited June 27, 2021 by mikeyman109

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I just thinks its unrealistic to think that will all happen. HOPE is not a strategy. Its like looking at who we can draft before the draft lottery. Not much point wasting arguing about it. WE do need to replace Edler and if possible with a cheaper option. id love to see Mayfield come here but having played in T bay he has the tax advantage to be considered. What he will want to play here will be much more than he was making in T bay.I dont know much about Hakanpaa but there are bound to be plenty of bottom pair D men available. I just want to see how Schmidt and Myers do in a regular regular season

Guys are paid in US dollars.  They have a 20% increase in their spending value here.  Balances out, providing the guy is committed to living here, like Myers.  

Edited June 27, 2021 by Alflives

[mikeyman109]

Just now, Alflives said:

Guys are paid in US dollars.  They have a 20% increase in their spending value here.  

no they do not. In comparison to T bay where they pay next to no taxes and here they pay a large income tax. it isnt even close to comparable Alf.